Why muslims don't apply "Charter of Privileges" ?

[ChristopherL]

It is applied .

Where? Do you know how many Christians have been slaughtered in Sudan by Muslims? Do you know how badly Copts in our so called Allie Egypt are treated?

Give some examples, instead of just opinion. If it were applied why are Christians persecuted in MOST Islamic countries?

 

[Nicolas]

Can any Arab Christian give us some examples of cases ,before the 20th century, where “Charter of Privileges” was either applied or not applied.

 

[Kadaveri]

My soul is Christian, so I don’t make things up, I use authentic Arabic sources, here is a link to an Arabic source which indicates that the Charter of Privileges was written in the 2nd year of Alhijra:
amanjordan.org/aman_studies/wmview.php?ArtID=840

No, its cancelled, when it was written, Quran revelation was just in the beginning, and when Quran completed later on, it cancelled all others sources before it (as it cancelled the more important covenants such as the Torah & the Gospel).

However, my advice to you since you are only 18, is to read the Bible and let your soul judge on which book is right, take your time, and pray for God The Most High to show you the right & true religion.

Providing me with a source written in a language I cannot read or understand is not helpful. On the other hand, every single English article referencing this Charter (take this Google search for example) and even a book I have at home says that it was written in 628AD. You’ve made as strong a case as I would have if I claimed the USA declared independence in 1724 and then provided a page in a language you couldn’t even read to prove it! Now not only does your claim contradict every single verifiable source available, but it also goes against all logic. So again, tell me why a man with almost no political power would be negotiating treaties with a community who lived hundreds of miles away? Any reasonable person can understand that that’s just nonsense; clearly Muhammad had a great deal of political power (as he did in 628AD) when he granted this charter.

The only reason I can think of that explains why anyone would continue to dispute this is if they were trying to convince Christians that Muslims are evil people whose religion teaches us to kill them, and is then stuck when presented with proof from our scriptures that Islam teaches us to be charitable to Christians. So they basically fall into the childish cop-out of saying ‘well that doesn’t count!’ and dresses that up in a (totally false) argument so as to disguise their reasoning as something other than the intellectually bankrupt demagogy it is.

Thankfully most Christians I find are intelligent enough not to fall for such propaganda.

 

[Sam_777]

Sam_777;3815711:

My soul is Christian, so I don’t make things up, I use authentic Arabic sources, here is a link to an Arabic source which indicates that the Charter of Privileges was written in the 2nd year of Alhijra:
amanjordan.org/aman_studies/wmview.php?ArtID=840

No, its cancelled, when it was written, Quran revelation was just in the beginning, and when Quran completed later on, it cancelled all others sources before it (as it cancelled the more important covenants such as the Torah & the Gospel).

However, my advice to you since you are only 18, is to read the Bible and let your soul judge on which book is right, take your time, and pray for God The Most High to show you the right & true religion.

Providing me with a source written in a language I cannot read or understand is not helpful. On the other hand, every single English article referencing this Charter (take this Google search for example) and even a book I have at home says that it was written in 628AD. You’ve made as strong a case as I would have if I claimed the USA declared independence in 1724 and then provided a page in a language you couldn’t even read to prove it! Now not only does your claim contradict every single verifiable source available, but it also goes against all logic. So again, tell me why a man with almost no political power would be negotiating treaties with a community who lived hundreds of miles away? Any reasonable person can understand that that’s just nonsense; clearly Muhammad had a great deal of political power (as he did in 628AD) when he granted this charter.

The only reason I can think of that explains why anyone would continue to dispute this is if they were trying to convince Christians that Muslims are evil people whose religion teaches us to kill them, and is then stuck when presented with proof from our scriptures that Islam teaches us to be charitable to Christians. So they basically fall into the childish cop-out of saying ‘well that doesn’t count!’ and dresses that up in a (totally false) argument so as to disguise their reasoning as something other than the intellectually bankrupt demagogy it is.

Thankfully most Christians I find are intelligent enough not to fall for such propaganda.

Sorry to till you, but the the Arabic reference in Islam is more authentic than any English one, ask your Shaikh to verify that, since Quran & Hadith were written in Arabic including the “the Charter of Privileges”, so when it comes to verify the sources, they should be an Arabic sources not any other language.

However, for the reasons of that charter, in addition to the one in my original post, I think because of the special place the Mount Sinai had, considering it was mentioned in (Quran 23:20), and because Muhammed prayed at the mountain of Sina (Mount Sinai) in the claimed Isra & Miraj journey.

 

[ChristopherL]

Providing me with a source written in a language I cannot read or understand is not helpful. On the other hand, every single English article referencing this Charter (take this Google search for example) and even a book I have at home says that it was written in 628AD. You’ve made as strong a case as I would have if I claimed the USA declared independence in 1724 and then provided a page in a language you couldn’t even read to prove it! Now not only does your claim contradict every single verifiable source available, but it also goes against all logic. So again, tell me why a man with almost no political power would be negotiating treaties with a community who lived hundreds of miles away? Any reasonable person can understand that that’s just nonsense; clearly Muhammad had a great deal of political power (as he did in 628AD) when he granted this charter.

The only reason I can think of that explains why anyone would continue to dispute this is if they were trying to convince Christians that Muslims are evil people whose religion teaches us to kill them, and is then stuck when presented with proof from our scriptures that Islam teaches us to be charitable to Christians. So they basically fall into the childish cop-out of saying ‘well that doesn’t count!’ and dresses that up in a (totally false) argument so as to disguise their reasoning as something other than the intellectually bankrupt demagogy it is.

Thankfully most Christians I find are intelligent enough not to fall for such propaganda.

Save the Islamic PROPAGANDA. Islam does say to kill or dominate non-Muslims. Some Imams just give the watered down version to attract new recruits. I suggest you either learn about Islam or stop lying.

Mohammad would invite non-Muslims to Islam. If they did not accept they could pay jizya. If they did not accept either offer, he would wage war on them. All one has to do, is look at Islamic countries to see how Christians are oppressed and persecuted by Muslims. So save the con. The world is slowly waking up, when it comes to Islam.

 

[ChristopherL]

Please don’t make things up. The Charter of Privileges was not written in the years of Muhammad’s Hijra when he was in a position of weakness, it was written in 628AD when he was the effective ruler of most of Arabia; men with little political power don’t usually grant treaties to monasteries as far away as Mount Sinai.

The Charter is not ‘cancelled’ by anything, no one of the Muslims is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day. Though you can legitimately criticise some Muslims for not following the Islamic laws on dealing with Christians if you want to.

Another con. Islam allows treaties to be made and then broken when back in a position of strength. Also Islam OKs lying. So NOTHING you or Mohammad said is to be believed.

Islamic law=non-Muslims have little to no rights.

“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)”

 

[Steven_John]

Mahomet was deceived by an inferior demon who claimed to be tha Archangel Gabriel.

And any man who married a 9 year old girl is by definition a pedophile.

Every word in the Coran is a lie, including “a”, “an”, and “the.”

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

Hi i always thought Catholics and Orthodox were similar.

To the best of my understanding Catholics believe muslims followers of the quran are included in Gods plan of salvation.
They worship the same God, the God of Abraham (pbwh) as it says in the quran.

You say

Every word in the Coran is a lie, including “a”, “an”, and “the.”

My bible says God commands us not to bare false witness.

Do you own a book that says different about Abraham (pbwh).

In kindness and peace i encourage you to reconsider your post you have claims in it that maybe false to your heart. If they are not you may have miss directed a prayer.

Jesus (pbwh) teaches us to pray to the Father this is the God of Abraham (pbwh) the One true God Catholics and Muslims are commanded to pray to. By doing this we share and promote peace.

It is only those that are astray in these religions that show the ugliness we see,
dont get sucked in to it, it wants you to so your heart becomes hate filled too.

 

[Steven_John]

“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)”

Are there any other quotes that say some Jews and Christians are not in error or are submitters?

If there was one could we not consider the ones referred to in your quote were not the same as Jews and Christians of today and it refered to a specific people in that time?

Historically have there ever been Jews and Christians committing acts that offend you?

Thought history Jews , Christians and Muslims comited acts that are against my God. This is so even today.

Do you think it is possible that so called “muslim” people exploite what you have quoted? while others seek peace. the exploiters may have evil in their heart seeking false supremacy’s.

If it is at all possible would we not do better to encourage people to build on good rather than attacking evil with evil in the name of good?
Dont suicide bombers do evil acts saying it is in the name of good?

I am offering you all this in the name of goodness and peace.

Jesus (pbwh) offered you peace, please accept it he went through a lot for you to have it, be of the greatful and submit yourself to The On True God.

 

[ralphinal]

Hi i always thought Catholics and Orthodox were similar.

To the best of my understanding Catholics believe muslims followers of the quran are included in Gods plan of salvation.
They worship the same God, the God of Abraham (pbwh) as it says in the quran.

You say

My bible says God commands us not to bare false witness.

Do you own a book that says different about Abraham (pbwh).

In kindness and peace i encourage you to reconsider your post you have claims in it that maybe false to your heart. If they are not you may have miss directed a prayer.

Jesus (pbwh) teaches us to pray to the Father this is the God of Abraham (pbwh) the One true God Catholics and Muslims are commanded to pray to. By doing this we share and promote peace.

It is only those that are astray in these religions that show the ugliness we see,
dont get sucked in to it, it wants you to so your heart becomes hate filled too.

The Catholic Church teaches that Muslims intend to worship the same God as the Jews and that God is the same as God the Father to Christians. We understand that Muslims have a flawed version of this God, as there are direct and easy to find contradictions in the Qur’an to the Bible.

Muslims can be saved, but it will not be because they are Muslim

 

[meedo]

Where? Do you know how many Christians have been slaughtered in Sudan by Muslims? Do you know how badly Copts in our so called Allie Egypt are treated?

Give some examples, instead of just opinion. If it were applied why are Christians persecuted in MOST Islamic countries?

Sudan has north and south and they are in war for a long time. Both parties have slaughtered each other.

yes i know how copts are treated , Much better than muslims are treated in the western world .

Copts have ministers in Egypt . currently the minister of finance is a copt

Copts are represented in parliment in Egypt.

There is a big huge vbook shop in cairo called the ‘’ Holy Book ''Bookshop which sells are sort of christian stuff from tapes to all sorts of bibles to whatveer you name it . It has been there for ages .

I have 4 of my nrighbours are copts and are very happy with one another.

The biggest business man in Egypt and the most rich is a copt.

Every year in a Cair Book fair there is a whole second story devoted for christian films and books and audio tapes , all made by arab christians and are in arabic . Freely displaying them on tvs and on audio cassets as muslims walk by with no problems whatsoever. This has been the case as long as i can remember back till when i was a child.

Every now and then a fight happens in south of Egypt where people are uneducated and poor . Uusally a dispute on a piece of land or some guy was nervous when he talked to a wife of another. big fights happen on trivial reasons and some get killed . road acidents kill egyptians a million t imes more than infighting kill copts .

Thera re more churches in Egypt that there are mosques in the whole of Europe!!!

Finally, if muslims didnt want copts there wouldnt have been 10 million of them after 14 centuries .

oh sorry ,…can you tell me again How many muslims were left in spain after the inquisition?

wanna know christians feel persecuted ? becasue they love to feel this way . It feels more jesus like to them. Its also a way to get back at a religion if they couldnt convert its adherents. defame it as bieng persecuted.

meedo

 

[ralphinal]

Meedo,

Who has a better life, a Christian in Saudi Arabia or a Muslim in the United States or England? Who can publically worship? Which group can build a place of worship?

 

[Steven_John]

The Catholic Church teaches that Muslims intend to worship the same God as the Jews and that God is the same as God the Father to Christians. We understand that Muslims have a flawed version of this God, as there are direct and easy to find contradictions in the Qur’an to the Bible.

Muslims can be saved, but it will not be because they are Muslim

i don’t think thats contradicts what i said

Hi i always thought Catholics and Orthodox were similar.

To the best of my understanding Catholics believe muslims followers of the quran are included in Gods plan of salvation.
They worship the same God, the God of Abraham (pbwh) as it says in the quran.

You say

My bible says God commands us not to bare false witness.

Do you own a book that says different about Abraham (pbwh).

In kindness and peace i encourage you to reconsider your post you have claims in it that maybe false to your heart. If they are not you may have miss directed a prayer.

Jesus (pbwh) teaches us to pray to the Father this is the God of Abraham (pbwh) the One true God Catholics and Muslims are commanded to pray to. By doing this we share and promote peace.

It is only those that are astray in these religions that show the ugliness we see,
dont get sucked in to it, it wants you to so your heart becomes hate filled too.

you may understand it better if i say,

then plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator, in the first place amongst them the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us adore the one,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

If putting it this way was the way for Orthodox your post could be seen to be in error
as in this statement they are saved because they are Muslims,

Catholics say “together with us adore the one,merciful God,” are you saying Catholics worship “flawed version of God”.

God does not come in versions flawed or otherwise,
He is one and cannot be divided.
If you had said they have a false view of God you may still be in error as it contains truth,
none of us have a complete view of God.

If you judge their way is not what God wants from you thats ok but if judge their way is not right for them you may be seen as guilty of judgment.

You stated “We see” respectfully who is we.

Peace and blessings

 

[ralphinal]

i don’t think thats contradicts what i said

you may understand it better if i say,

then plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator, in the first place amongst them the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us adore the one,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

If putting it this way was the way for Orthodox your post could be seen to be in error
as in this statement they are saved because they are Muslims,

Catholics say “together with us adore the one,merciful God,” are you saying Catholics worship “flawed version of God”.

God does not come in versions flawed or otherwise,
He is one and cannot be divided.
If you had said they have a false view of God you may still be in error as it contains truth,
none of us have a complete view of God.

If you judge their way is not what God wants from you thats ok but if judge their way is not right for them you may be seen as guilty of judgment.

You stated “We see” respectfully who is we.

Peace and blessings

I see what you are saying. God is not flawed. The Qur’an’s version of Him is. There is no Trinity. There is no understanding of God as Father or of us as children. He is the Master, we are the slaves. This is a flawed version. There is no understanding of free will. This is flawed.

Now, their way may be right for them. However, our way is right for everyone. Otherwise, Jesus would not have said make believers of ALL nations.

Muslims are different than any other group. They are not Jews nor Christians, but they understand that God is the one true God.

 

[Steven_John]

I see what you are saying. God is not flawed. The Qur’an’s version of Him is. There is no Trinity. There is no understanding of God as Father or of us as children. He is the Master, we are the slaves. This is a flawed version. There is no understanding of free will. This is flawed.

Now, their way may be right for them. However, our way is right for everyone. Otherwise, Jesus would not have said make believers of ALL nations.

Muslims are different than any other group. They are not Jews nor Christians, but they understand that God is the one true God.

No i did not say all that,
I offered my understanding of catholic belief.

hen plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator, in the first place amongst them the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us adore the one,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

I did say and stand by “God is not flawed” I pray you will one day you will see this too.
As for lots of other things you have said are way from my post.

With respect you are trying to bring more into what i have said.

You and i have every right to differ from the Catholic church we have free will.

Please read my posts to you and accept my greetings of peace

 

[meedo]

Meedo,

Who has a better life, a Christian in Saudi Arabia or a Muslim in the United States or England? Who can publically worship? Which group can build a place of worship?

Saudi arabia doesnt have Christian citizens.unlike other muslim countries , It has christians residents who one day should go back to their countries. and we again and again made it clear as muslims that saudi arabia is our vatican . Do you build mosques in your vatican?

dont compare apples and oranges . compare apples and apples

 

[ralphinal]

Saudi arabia doesnt have Christian citizens.unlike other muslim countries , It has christians residents who one day should go back to their countries. and we again and again made it clear as muslims that saudi arabia is our vatican . Do you build mosques in your vatican?

dont compare apples and oranges . compare apples and apples

If there is no compulsion in religion, why should they not be allowed? Why should it be illegal to teach Christian doctrines? Why should these visitors not be allowed to worship AS THEY CHOOSE. Can a SA Citizen become a Christian without fear?

There are mosques in Rome. The Vatican is only one square mile. Not much land. IN fact, there are not many residents either. Then how about Lybia? SUdan? Iran? Show me any two Muslim dominant nations where Christians have freedom of worship to rival the Muslims in the United States and Great Britan.

 

[ralphinal]

No i did not say all that,
I offered my understanding of catholic belief.

I did say and stand by “God is not flawed” I pray you will one day you will see this too.
As for lots of other things you have said are way from my post.

With respect you are trying to bring more into what i have said.

You and i have every right to differ from the Catholic church we have free will.

Please read my posts to you and accept my greetings of peace

I am sorry if I put things in that you did not intend. I respect you, as well as the other posters on here, and I pray that God blesses you.

 

[pismopal]

All the discussion about “Islam” can be boiled down to it’s essence…just look at what it has wrought. By their fruits you shall know them. Now let the "Tu quoque " arguments roll

 

[meedo]

If there is no compulsion in religion, why should they not be allowed? Why should it be illegal to teach Christian doctrines? Why should these visitors not be allowed to worship AS THEY CHOOSE. Can a SA Citizen become a Christian without fear?

There are mosques in Rome. The Vatican is only one square mile. Not much land. IN fact, there are not many residents either. Then how about Lybia? SUdan? Iran? Show me any two Muslim dominant nations where Christians have freedom of worship to rival the Muslims in the United States and Great Britan.

It is not muslim problem that christians chose to limit vatican to one square mile. Our Vatican is saudi arabia. Others have to respect that . There isnt much christians in Lybia. Iran has Christian churches and they worship freely. Sudan have christians and they have their churches. there is nothing keeping them from worshipping. Syria have christians and they worship freely, Iraq had many christians and they worship freely before the botched war of George Bush that turne dthe country into rubble. Jordan have churches and they worship freely. They worship freely no less than muslims worship in the US. All these countries are muslim dominant.

Missionizing by christianity just uses the poverty and the ignorance of people . Bible in one hand and money and food and visa to the west in the other . Mass missionizing is not allowed for that purpose. Muslims are not ignorant of christianity or far away from it . i tell you we have tapes and lectures and lessons and satalite tvs that preach christianity day and night in arabic.

We just dont like people using our poor and uneducated .

 

[ralphinal]

It is not muslim problem that christians chose to limit vatican to one square mile. Our Vatican is saudi arabia. Others have to respect that . There isnt much christians in Lybia. Iran has Christian churches and they worship freely. Sudan have christians and they have their churches. there is nothing keeping them from worshipping. Syria have christians and they worship freely, Iraq had many christians and they worship freely before the botched war of George Bush that turne dthe country into rubble. Jordan have churches and they worship freely. They worship freely no less than muslims worship in the US. All these countries are muslim dominant.

I agree about Jordan and Iraq (pre-war). Your Iran info is wrong, as is your Sudan info. Christians are targeted and killed in Sudan if caught in worship. Syria is correct. However, none of them have the freedom of worship compaired to the US. That is easy to proove. None of them have laws allowing it.

Missionizing by christianity just uses the poverty and the ignorance of people . Bible in one hand and money and food and visa to the west in the other . Mass missionizing is not allowed for that purpose. Muslims are not ignorant of christianity or far away from it . i tell you we have tapes and lectures and lessons and satalite tvs that preach christianity day and night in arabic.

We just dont like people using our poor and uneducated .

Oh my. if the statement is true, that you guys have access to Christianity, why are so many Muslims ignorant of what Christians beleive? And please do not think that we only use the poor and uneducateds state against them. Muslims have been known to do the same. By and large, religion is used by the poor and uneducated as an escape or to lessen the despair they feel.

Mass missionizing is not allowed because the governments are afraid of a Christian population calling for reforms in government.