Why Muslims should celebrate Christmas

[dzheremi]

I respect that this is an issue to you, TrueFaith50, but it is not to me or anyone else in the Orthodox Church. The Coptic Church, by the way, uses Arabic liturgically as well as an everyday language, so we do call him Yesu’ (يسوع) when speaking Arabic. Jesus is just the English form, from the Greek version of that same name, Ιησούς (this is also the source of the Coptic language form, as well as the Latin and many other languages’). Sort of like how Arabic speakers will be named Muhammad, while Turkish people with that same name will be named Mehmet. Not every language has the necessary or correct sound inventory or phonotactic rules to represent every name as it would be represented in its original form. Again, this is not a problem for any Orthodox Christian (and probably also not any Catholic, or most Protestants). It has no theological significance for mainstream Christians. Some (very few, from what I’ve seen) Protestants are hung up on such things, but this type of Judaizing approach to Christianity is actually a heresy that has been condemned in the Holy Bible itself (in the Council of Jerusalem, AD 50, recorded in the book of Acts), and ever since then by all of our apostolic fathers.

 

[True_Faith50]

Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM".

I’m not trying to make any false stories. I respect your religion as I respect mine. Than “Before Abraham was I’m” Now how was he, he was with God? I accept it he was with God.

Jeremiah 1:5: tells Us:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Was he with God? Off course he was with God in other words in the knowledge of God. Jeremiah was there, Jesus was there, Muhammad was there. every body was there in the knowledge of God. That is the Almighty God he knows everything before he creates. So in that sense Jesus was there! Before Abraham was born in this world. In his knowledge in his plan Jesus was there.

God Almighty is Omniscient. He is all knowing before and after in the sight of God there is no before, now and after. He knows every thing like an open book that is our understanding!

In John chapter 10:30
Why the Jews took exception of everything. You remember they took up stones against to stone him. You know why because he says I and my father are one. you read the context and you find a serious deliberate misunderstanding.

 

[dronald]

Well it is same prophet as you so called “JESUS” why don’t you call Jesus by his “Original Name” in your Bible? “Yessau” is his original name which Mary gave him. In the time of Jesus they don’t speak English so from where they generate “Jesus”. They speak Hebrew on that time. Yessau in Hebrew and** Isa **in Arabic. Hebrew is a sister language of Arabic.

Do you call Him Yessau? Also, if Jesus could speak Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek and His name was written in Latin above His cross then our English pronunciation makes more sense than “Isa.”

Yeshu (Hebrew)—>Yeshua’ (Aramaic) —> Iesous (Greek) —> Iesus (Latin) —> Jesus (English).

In John chapter 10:30
Why the Jews took exception of everything. You remember they took up stones against to stone him. You know why because he says I and my father are one. you read the context and you find a serious deliberate misunderstanding.

John actually explains the context of his book:

5:18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

 

[True_Faith50]

I respect that this is an issue to you, TrueFaith50, but it is not to me or anyone else in the Orthodox Church. The Coptic Church, by the way, uses Arabic liturgically as well as an everyday language, so we do call him Yesu’ (يسوع) when speaking Arabic. Jesus is just the English form, from the Greek version of that same name, Ιησούς (this is also the source of the Coptic language form, as well as the Latin and many other languages’). Sort of like how Arabic speakers will be named Muhammad, while Turkish people with that same name will be named Mehmet. Not every language has the necessary or correct sound inventory or phonotactic rules to represent every name as it would be represented in its original form. Again, this is not a problem for any Orthodox Christian (and probably also not any Catholic, or most Protestants). It has no theological significance for mainstream Christians. Some (very few, from what I’ve seen) Protestants are hung up on such things, but this type of Judaizing approach to Christianity is actually a heresy that has been condemned in the Holy Bible itself (in the Council of Jerusalem, AD 50, recorded in the book of Acts), and ever since then by all of our apostolic fathers.

This is not an issue to me in fact you know five fingers are not equal your point of view is way different than mine. So we all have different point of views.

 

[True_Faith50]

Do you call Him Yessau? Also, if Jesus could speak Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek and His name was written in Latin above His cross then our English pronunciation makes more sense than “Isa.”

Yeshu (Hebrew)—>Yeshua’ (Aramaic) —> Iesous (Greek) —> Iesus (Latin) —> Jesus (English).

John actually explains the context of his book:

5:18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

How do you explain Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[dronald]

I’m not trying to make any false stories. I respect your religion as I respect mine. Than “Before Abraham was I’m” Now how was he, he was with God? I accept it he was with God.

Jeremiah 1:5: tells Us:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Was he with God? Off course he was with God in other words in the knowledge of God. Jeremiah was there, Jesus was there, Muhammad was there. every body was there in the knowledge of God. That is the Almighty God he knows everything before he creates. So in that sense Jesus was there! Before Abraham was born in this world. In his knowledge in his plan Jesus was there.

God Almighty is Omniscient. He is all knowing before and after in the sight of God there is no before, now and after. He knows every thing like an open book that is our understanding!

Sure. Your last paragraph is the only correct one. God knew all of His children before the foundation of the Earth, we can both agree on this:

Psalm 139:16Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

A further example of this would be Paul. As we know, Paul was called as an Apostle when he was older, however he states in Galatians 1:15:
*
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.*

However, your interpretation of “Before Abraham was I am” being equivalent to Moses, Muhammad and Jeremiah is false based on the context of the accusations of the Jews. Take a look:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Jesus is claiming to have existed before Abraham and taking the title, “I AM.” The Jews go upset and wanted to kill Him for it. To say that Jesus was simply explaining that Jesus was in Heaven as a regular being while Abraham was on Earth is not anywhere near the context of John 8.

 

[dronald]

I actually have a question for you True_Faith, regarding your statement on the palm tree:

The Quran tell us very Clearly that when Jesus was born his mother Mary was told to shake the trunk of the palm tree so that moist dates would fall down from which she could eat and be nourished after the birth of the child. So, it was mid-summer. if the Quran says that the dates ripe it means mid-summer not mid-winter. Palestine is in the northern hemisphere your winter and their winter is the same and the Bible also says (Luke 2:8) that when Jesus was born there were shepherds out in the field. If the shepherd stays out open in Palestine in mid-winter he or she will freeze to death and sheep also will freeze to death.

This story was created in the 4th century by a Christian group that wanted to make up stories on Jesus’s childhood. Some groups were upset that more wasn’t recorded about Christ as a child, thus if we look into what is called the “pseudo-Matthew Gospel” we’ll find the story you’re speaking of:

Psuedo-matthew gospel. Written 4th century: And it came to pass on the third day of their journey, while they were walking, that the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive heat of the sun in the desert; and seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph: Let me rest a little under the shade of this tree. Joseph therefore made haste, and led her to the palm, and made her come down from her beast. And as the blessed Mary was sitting there, she looked up to the foliage of the palm, and saw it full of fruit, and said to Joseph: I wish it were possible to get some of the fruit of this palm. And Joseph said to her: I wonder that thou sayest this, when thou seest how high the palm tree is; and that thou thinkest of eating of its fruit. I am thinking more of the want of water, because the skins are now empty, and we have none wherewith to refresh ourselves and our cattle. Then the child Jesus, with a joyful countenance, reposing in the bosom of His mother, said to the palm: O tree, bend thy branches, and refresh my mother with thy fruit. And immediately at these words the palm bent its top down to the very feet of the blessed Mary; and they gathered from it fruit, with which they were all refreshed. And after they had gathered all its fruit, it remained bent down, waiting the order to rise from Him who bad commanded it to stoop. Then Jesus said to it: Raise thyself, O palm tree, and be strong, and be the companion of my trees, which are in the paradise of my Father; and open from thy roots a vein of water which has been hid in the earth, and let the waters flow, so that we may be satisfied from thee. And it rose up immediately, and at its root there began to come forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and cool and sparkling. And when they saw the spring of water, they rejoiced with great joy, and were satisfied, themselves and all their cattle and their beasts. Wherefore they gave thanks to God.”

We know this is a late gospel, written in the 4th century and we know that the story would have been common among Arab Christians. How do you explain this?

 

[True_Faith50]

John actually explains the context of his book:

5:18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

This is not the right context. In which sense did he say that “I and my Father are One”? What is the context? Correct context is from John 10:23 to 30

23it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30"I and the Father are one.”

I and my father are one in this to see that once the man accepted faith he remains in faith I as the teacher sees to that as well as God mighty sees to that. In purpose we are one. But the Jews were looking for trouble and if you are looking for trouble you don’t have to go very far. So, they picked up stones against to stone him so Jesus say many good works have I showed you from my father for which of those will you stone me.

So, they say for the good work they not but for blissfully because you are a man claiming to be God. First false charge he is talking ambiguously, second false charge he is claiming to be God that’s the Jew alleged. Christians agrees with the Jews they said he did make such a claim but he was entitle to it.

What does Jesus say is it not written in your law (Torah) verse32 I said ye are gods if he God almighty call them God and to whom the word of God came mean the prophets are called god in our language.

God Almighty speaks to Moses and he says behold I have made you a god to “Faron” In the Book Psalm 82:6 it says “Ye are gods” means you are gods and all of you are the children of the most high. That’s the genius of the Jewish Language that when a person is call god he is not God.

Like in 2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan who is the god of this world. So, is Satan God? No it is your language. Moses is God to Faron and you Jews are all gods that is the genius of Jewish Language. God has son by the tons in the Bible.

 

[dronald]

This is not the right context. In which sense did he say that “I and my Father are One”? What is the context? Correct context is from John 10:23 to 30

23it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30"I and the Father are one.”

I and my father are one in this to see that once the man accepted faith he remains in faith I as the teacher sees to that as well as God mighty sees to that. In purpose we are one. But the Jews were looking for trouble and if you are looking for trouble you don’t have to go very far. So, they picked up stones against to stone him so Jesus say many good works have I showed you from my father for which of those will you stone me.

So, they say for the good work they not but for blissfully because you are a man claiming to be God. First false charge he is talking ambiguously, second false charge he is claiming to be God that’s the Jew alleged. Christians agrees with the Jews they said he did make such a claim but he was entitle to it.

What does Jesus say is it not written in your law (Torah) verse32 I said ye are gods if he God almighty call them God and to whom the word of God came mean the prophets are called god in our language.

God Almighty speaks to Moses and he says behold I have made you a god to “Faron” In the Book Psalm 82:6 it says “Ye are gods” means your are god to Faron and all of you are the children of the most high. That’s the genius of the Jewish Language that when a person is call god he is not God.

Like in 2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan who is the god of this world. So, is Satan God? No it is your language. Moses is God to Faron and you Jews are all gods that is the genius of Jewish Language. God has son by the tons in the Bible.

Yes, True_Faith; the argument “I and the Father are one” is a poor one that Christians present. I promise you the Gospel of John is far more convincing in other areas that Jesus claimed to be God and the Jews knew He was making that claim.

Regardless, you’re quoting a Gospel that was written by one person in one sitting as textual criticism has proven. The Gospel of John is not a bunch of sayings that you may find in the Hadith, rather John wrote all of these things down; front to back. And it turns out that John included Jesus’s death and resurrection, two things that you deny. After His resurrection Thomas proclaimed after seeing the holes in His hands, “My Lord and my God (Greek = The Lord of me and The God of me)” To which Jesus responds:

“Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:28-29)

Knowing all this, do you believe that Jesus was crucified and still has the holes in His hands? Do you believe He died and resurrected? Is Jesus your Lord and your God? If Jesus had to show you the holes in His hands for you to believe, don’t you think He would say the exact same thing to you that He said to Thomas?

How are you any different from Thomas, True_Faith?

 

[Sam_777]

Was he with God? Off course he was with God in other words in the knowledge of God. Jeremiah was there, Jesus was there, Muhammad was there. every body was there in the knowledge of God. That is the Almighty God he knows everything before he creates. So in that sense Jesus was there! Before Abraham was born in this world. In his knowledge in his plan Jesus was there.

No, you missed the point there, it’s Abraham who saw JESUS, the quote again in English/Arabic.

Now how come that Abraham has seen JESUS hundreds of years back!, the only explanation is that JESUS is not only "mightiest messenger of God" but something more.

JESUS is THE MOST HIGH’S WORD, but unfortunately few in this earthy world know THE MOST HIGH and understand Him.

(John 8:56-58):
Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!
*Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “*before Abraham was born, I AM".

أبُوكُمْ إبْراهِيْمُ ابْتَهَجَ مُتَشَوِّقاً لِأنْ يَرَى يَوْمِي، وَقَدْ رَآهُ وَفَرِحَ.
فَقالَ لَهُ قادَةُ اليَهُودِ: «لَمْ تَبلُغِ الخَمْسِيْنَ بَعْدُ، وَقَدْ رَأيْتَ إبْراهِيْمَ؟
قالَ لَهُمْ يَسُوعُ: أقُولُ الحَقَّ لَكُمْ: قَبلَ أنْ يَكُونَ إبْراهِيْمُ، أنا كائِنٌ​

 

[True_Faith50]

Yes, True_Faith; the argument “I and the Father are one” is a poor one that Christians present. I promise you the Gospel of John is far more convincing in other areas that Jesus claimed to be God and the Jews knew He was making that claim.

Regardless, you’re quoting a Gospel that was written by one person in one sitting as textual criticism has proven. The Gospel of John is not a bunch of sayings that you may find in the Hadith, rather John wrote all of these things down; front to back. And it turns out that John included Jesus’s death and resurrection, two things that you deny. After His resurrection Thomas proclaimed after seeing the holes in His hands, “My Lord and my God (Greek = The Lord of me and The God of me)” To which Jesus responds:

“Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:28-29)

Knowing all this, do you believe that Jesus was crucified and still has the holes in His hands? Do you believe He died and resurrected? Is Jesus your Lord and your God? If Jesus had to show you the holes in His hands for you to believe, don’t you think He would say the exact same thing to you that He said to Thomas?

How are you any different from Thomas, True_Faith?

We Muslim Believe that Jesus did not Die God took him alive and he is coming back on the day of judgement.

Because the mightiest Miracle in whole Bible which Jesus give from his own mouth was the sign of Jonah.

Mathew 12:38
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale so will the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the Earth.

now if we analyze this according to Christians Jesus fails if he dies and I don’t think Jesus is lying. In Quran it says “it is not what it seems to them.”

It is not a miracle if Jesus dies a Miracle is a happening that we don’t expect to happen.

Mark 14:50
And they all left him (Jesus) and fled. ( Disciples of Jesus )

Disciples of Jesus had heard that the master “Jesus” was hang on the cross. All the knowledge they have is on hear say! that now he is dead and buried for 3 days. That’s why Disciples are frightened when they see Jesus. After his alleged crucifiction Jesus return after 3 days.

Jesus give proof by himself that he did not die and want to assure them that he is not what they are thinking.

Luke 24:36
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence

Why he ate to show them that he is not a spirit not a spooke.

 

[dronald]

We Muslim Believe that Jesus did not Die God took him alive and he is coming back on the day of judgement.

Because the mightiest Miracle in whole Bible which Jesus give from his own mouth was the sign of Jonah.

Mathew 12:38
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale so will the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the Earth.

now if we analyze this according to Christians Jesus fails if he dies and I don’t think Jesus is lying. In Quran it says “it is not what it seems to them.”

It is not a miracle if Jesus dies a Miracle is a happening that we don’t expect to happen.

This doesn’t address anything I just said. The fact is, you’re quoting (again) a Gospel that has Jesus’s death and resurrection.

 

[True_Faith50]

We Muslim Believe that Jesus did not Die God took him alive and he is coming back on the day of judgement.

Because the mightiest Miracle in whole Bible which Jesus give from his own mouth was the sign of Jonah.

Mathew 12:38
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale so will the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the Earth.

now if we analyze this according to Christians Jesus fails if he dies and I don’t think Jesus is lying. In Quran it says “it is not what it seems to them.”

It is not a miracle if Jesus dies a Miracle is a happening that we don’t expect to happen.

Mark 14:50
And they all left him (Jesus) and fled. ( Disciples of Jesus )

Disciples of Jesus had heard that the master “Jesus” was hang on the cross. All the knowledge they have is on hear say! that now he is dead and buried for 3 days. That’s why Disciples are frightened when they see Jesus. After his alleged crucifiction Jesus return after 3 days.

Jesus give proof by himself that he did not die and want to assure them that he is not what they are thinking.

Luke 24:36
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence

Why he ate? To show them that he is not a spirit not a spooke.

 

[dronald]

Mark 14:50
And they all left him (Jesus) and fled. ( Disciples of Jesus )

Disciples of Jesus had heard that the master “Jesus” was hang on the cross. All the knowledge they have is on hear say! that now he is dead and buried for 3 days. That’s why Disciples are frightened when they see Jesus. After his alleged crucifiction Jesus return after 3 days.

Jesus give proof by himself that he did not die and want to assure them that he is not what they are thinking.

The chapter then continues to explain that Peter followed at a close distance and watched the events unfolding. Also, John the Apostle was standing at the foot of the cross in his Gospel.

Luke 24:36
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence

Why he ate to show them that he is not a spirit not a spooke.

40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, **“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Where are you getting these ideas from my friend? You’re being deceived.

 

[Sam_777]

Why he ate to show them that he is not a spirit not a spooke.

Read this quote where JESUS called Peter “Satan” because Peter tried to deny the predicted crucifixion in (Matthew 16-21-23):
"From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”, Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Now read carefully this quote from the OT (Before all Christians and Christianity itself!) (Zechariah 12-10):
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son."

سَأسكُبُ عَلَى عائِلَةِ داوُدَ وَسُكّانِ مَدينَةِ القُدْسِ رُوحَ إحْسانٍ وَرَحْمَةٍ. وَسَيَنظُرُ النّاسُ إلَى ذاكَ الَّذِي طَعَنُوهُ، وَسَيَنُوحُونَ عَلَيهِ كَما لَوْ أنَّهُمْ يَنُوحُونَ عَلَى مَوْتِ ابْنٍ وَحِيدٍ، وَسَتَكُونُ أرواحُهُمْ مُرَّةً كَمَنْ فَقَدُوا ابنَهُمُ البِكرَ​

​

 

[True_Faith50]

The chapter then continues to explain that Peter followed at a close distance and watched the events unfolding. Also, John the Apostle was standing at the foot of the cross in his Gospel.

40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, **“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day

, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Where are you getting these ideas from my friend? You’re being deceived.

This doesn’t make any sense! Jesus says Jonah’s miracle is my miracle! if he dies than it is unlike Jonah not like Jonah and again, you prove it that what he is saying from his own mouth is not true.

 

[dronald]

This doesn’t make any sense! Jesus says Jonah’s miracle is my miracle! if he dies than it is unlike Jonah not like Jonah and again, you prove it that what he is saying from his own mouth is not true.

Jesus explains what He means though…

“For Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale so will the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the Earth.”

He didn’t leave any room for misinterpretation and I’m not sure how He could be any more clear. How do you interpret Jesus being in the heart of the Earth, and do you have any evidence for your interpretation?

 

[True_Faith50]

How do you interpret Jesus being in the heart of the Earth, and do you have any evidence for your interpretation?

**Holy Quran 4:157 **says:
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it was made to appear to them so. And those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him.

The Muslim believes this categorical Quranic statement to be from God. Hence he asks no questions and seeks for no proof.

Quran 3:54 says:
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

It was Sunday morning, the FIRST day of the week, according to Hebrew calculations, with
Saturday the Sabbath as the seventh, when Mary Magdalene alone (Mark 16:9 and John 20:1) visited the tomb of Jesus.

The question arises: “Why did she go there?” “TO ANOINT HIM”, **Mark 16:1 **tells us. The Hebrew word for anoint is “masaha”, which means to rub, to massage, to anoint.1 The second question is: “Do Jews massage dead bodies after 3 days?” The answer is “No!” “Do the Christians massage dead bodies after 3 days?” The answer is again, “No!” Do the Muslims (who are the nearest to the Jews in their ceremonial laws) massage dead bodies after 3 days? And the answer is again, “No!” Then why should a Jewess want to massage a dead, decaying body after 3 days? We know that within 3 hours rigor mortis sets in - the stiffening of the body after death. In 3 days time, the body would be fermenting from within - the body cells would be breaking up and decomposing. If anyone rubs such a decaying body, it will fall to pieces. Does the rubbing make sense? No!

It would, however, make sense if she was looking for a LIVE person. You see, she was about the only person besides Joseph of Arimathe’a and Nicodemus who had given the final rites to the body of Jesus. If she had seen any sign of life in the limp body of Jesus when he was taken down from the cross, she was not going to shout, “HE IS ALIVE!” She returns after 2 nights and a day, when the Jewish Sabbath had passed, to take care of Jesus.

She was sorely amazed to find on arrival, that somebody had already removed the stone and, on peeping into the tomb, she finds that the winding sheets (shroud) were folded up inside. More questions arise? “Why was the stone removed?” Because for a resurrected body, one which had conquered death, it was not necessary for the stone to be removed for it to get out, nor was it necessary for the winding sheets to be unwound for it to move. Because, for a spiritualised body:

“STONE WALLS DO NOT A PRISON MAKE, NOR IRON BARS A CAGE.”

The removal of the stone and the unwinding of the winding sheets was the need of a physically resuscitated body, not that of a resurrected1 body! The empty tomb was an anti-climax to what she had expected! So the hysterical woman (Jesus had cast out of her “seven devils” - Mark 16:9) breaks down and sobs. Jesus was all the while watching her from the vicinity - not from heaven, but from earth.

Jesus is there! He is watching this woman. He knows who she is, and he knows why she is there. He approaches her from behind, and finds her crying. So he asks her:

"Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? - (John 20:15). Before she replies, allow me to interject: “Why does he ask what appears to be silly questions? Doesn’t he know the obvious reasons? Of course he does! Then why the silly questions?”

The answer is that in reality they are not silly questions, though they appear to be so. He
knows that this woman is looking for him, and she is disappointed on not finding him; hence the weeping. But he also knows that because of his heavy disguise she would not be able to recognise him. So metaphorically speaking he is pulling her leg. In describing this incident John, referring to Mary Magdalene, says: “She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him”. Now why should she suppose that he is a gardener? Do resurrected persons look like “gardeners”? No!! Then why does she suppose him to be a gardener? Because he is disguised as a GARDENER!

Why is he disguised as a gardener? Because he is afraid of the Jews! Why is he afraid of the Jews? Because he did not die and did not conquer death! If he had died, and if he had conquered death, then he would not be afraid anymore. Why not? Because a resurrected body cannot die twice! Who says so? The Bible says so. Where? In the Book of Hebrews 9:27. It says:

". . . it is ordained unto all men ONCE to die, and after that the judgement."

Mary supposing the disguised Jesus to be a gardener, says unto him "Sir, if you have taken HIM hence, tell me where have you laid HIM . . . (John 20:15)She is not looking for a corpse, for “it”. She is looking for a LIVE person, for “HIM”. And further, she wants to know as to “where have you ‘LAID’ him?” (i.e. To rest, to relax, to recuperate!) NOT, “where have you BURIED him?”

“So that I might take HIM away.”(John 20:15)

CONTINUE…

 

[True_Faith50]

How do you interpret Jesus being in the heart of the Earth, and do you have any evidence for your interpretation?

The prank that Jesus was playing upon this woman had gone too far. The woman had not been able to see through the disguise yet and Jesus was “laughing under his breath”, but could restrain himself no longer. He blurts out: “M-A-R-Y!” Only the one word! But it was enough. This one word, “Mary!” did what all the exchange of words failed to do. It enabled Mary to recognise her Master. Everyone has his or her unique and peculiar way of calling one’s nearest and dearest. It was not the mere utterance of the word “Mary”, but its deliberate intonation which made her respond: “Master! Master!”. Mad with happiness, she lunges forward to grab her Master, to pay reverence.

Jesus says, “Touch me not!” (John 20:17)

Why not? Is he a bundle of electricity, a dynamo, that if she touches him, she might get electrocuted? No! “Touch me not!”, because it would hurt. Though he appears normal to all intents and purposes, he had, nevertheless, been through a violent, physical and emotional ordeal. It would be excruciatingly painful if he allowed her any enthusiastic contact. Jesus continues:

“For I am not yet ASCENDED unto my Father.” (John 20:17)

She is not blind. She can see the man standing there before her. What does he mean by “not yet ascended” - GONE UP - when he was DOWN right there? He is, in fact, telling her that he is not RESURRECTED from the DEAD. In the language of the Jew, in the idiom of the Jew, he is saying: “I AM NOT DEAD YET!” - He is saying: “I AM ALIVE!”

“And they (the disciples), when they heard that he was ALIVE, and had been seen by her (Mary Magdalene), they BELIEVED NOT.” (Mark 16:11)

 

[True_Faith50]

The prank that Jesus was playing upon this woman had gone too far. The woman had not been able to see through the disguise yet and Jesus was “laughing under his breath”, but could restrain himself no longer. He blurts out: “M-A-R-Y!” Only the one word! But it was enough. This one word, “Mary!” did what all the exchange of words failed to do. It enabled Mary to recognise her Master. Everyone has his or her unique and peculiar way of calling one’s nearest and dearest. It was not the mere utterance of the word “Mary”, but its deliberate intonation which made her respond: “Master! Master!”. Mad with happiness, she lunges forward to grab her Master, to pay reverence.

Jesus says, “Touch me not!” (John 20:17)

Why not? Is he a bundle of electricity, a dynamo, that if she touches him, she might get electrocuted? No! “Touch me not!”, because it would hurt. Though he appears normal to all intents and purposes, he had, nevertheless, been through a violent, physical and emotional ordeal. It would be excruciatingly painful if he allowed her any enthusiastic contact. Jesus continues:

“For I am not yet ASCENDED unto my Father.” (John 20:17)

She is not blind. She can see the man standing there before her. What does he mean by “not yet ascended” - GONE UP - when he was DOWN right there? He is, in fact, telling her that he is not RESURRECTED from the DEAD. In the language of the Jew, in the idiom of the Jew, he is saying: “I AM NOT DEAD YET!” - He is saying: “I AM ALIVE!”

“And they (the disciples), when they heard that he was ALIVE, and had been seen by her (Mary Magdalene), they BELIEVED NOT.” (Mark 16:11)

So, from that point view it is very CLEAR that Jesus was not dead. He was “ALIVE” Like Jonah was “ALIVE” 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale.