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HolySpirit08
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I understand why we humans suffer and how we join our suffering to Christ’s suffering on the cross, but what do animals have to gain from suffering? I get so upset when I see animals being abused in any way.
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triumphguy
Guest
They have pain receptors so they can avoid injury.
They are abused because a human is acting inhumanely.
They are abused because a human is acting inhumanely.
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HolySpirit08
Guest
thank you but that does not answer my question. Let me rephrase my question…Why does God allow animals to suffer and feel pain when there is nothing redeeming in their suffering?
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triumphguy
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Why does he allow people to sin?
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Bartolome_Casas
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Do what you can, and move on. Life here is short.
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itullian
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free choice, no?
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triumphguy
Guest
That’s right.
And we are called to be stewards.
And stewards can make the wrong choices.
And we are called to be stewards.
And stewards can make the wrong choices.
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JerryZ
Guest
If an animal could not experience pain it would not know how to react properly to it’s enviroment.
If it is painful chances are it is dangerous.
If you put your finger on the flame of a candle, your arm will try to react to the pain by contracting the muscles to remove the pain.
It is called a reflex reaction (driven by instinct).
You can will yourself to endure the pain. an animal cannot do this for it has no will.
Their reactions are based purely on instinct.
As a precious poster noted a human willfully causing pain to an animal is acting inhumanely.
There is a moral code in how we need to act when killing an animal that will be used for food and basically states we need not to inflict undue pain.
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baseball10
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HolySpirit08, I have been wondering the same thing.
For everyone else, here is HolySpirit08’s post reworded as I understand it: Humans suffer in order to help atone for the sins of man. Through suffering, we can join/sympathize with Christ and merit a reward in heaven. It is understood that we suffer here on Earth so that we can merit that eternal reward. However, animals do not live on after death according to the Church because their souls are mortal, whereas the human soul is immortal. It’s rather easy to justify human suffering, but non-human suffering is a bit more difficult to get a handle on.
For everyone else, here is HolySpirit08’s post reworded as I understand it: Humans suffer in order to help atone for the sins of man. Through suffering, we can join/sympathize with Christ and merit a reward in heaven. It is understood that we suffer here on Earth so that we can merit that eternal reward. However, animals do not live on after death according to the Church because their souls are mortal, whereas the human soul is immortal. It’s rather easy to justify human suffering, but non-human suffering is a bit more difficult to get a handle on.
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Peter_Plato
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You are making an assumption that animals have the same kind of self-awareness that human beings have. The problem with that assumption is that most animals, except the higher primates and a few other mammals, do not have the cranial capacity or frontal lobe development necessary for consciousness. Consciousness would require persistence of memory along with the abstract thinking capabilities to develop the conceptualization necessary to form an identity and self-awareness. For most animals, there is no consciousness of pain, no “one” there to experience the awareness that they are in pain.
There could be extensive neuroprocessing and complex physiological reactions to injury, but that is not the same as consciousness.
A phenomenon called “blind sightedness” can add some insight into animals and pain. This condition is where human beings who have a specific form of blindness are not conscious of the perceptions provided to their neural systems by the optic system, but their bodies react as if “awareness” is present. Such a person can walk into a room and avoid all furniture, etc., but have no conscious awareness of the actually “seeing.” Most animals would be In a similar situation. There would be no awareness of pain, just responses to pain.
A great book about this whole issue is called Nature: Red in Tooth and Claw by Michael J. Murray
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TurboLover336
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as was stated … the ability to sense pain represents a stimulus by which an organism can react to in the interest of avoiding danger, and living longer.
much like us, the pain may remain long after the danger has been avoided such as a broken leg after discovering a jump from a certain elevation was a bad idea. its just how the systems work.
now what i wonder is why it is some of us believe human suffering has redeeming qualities.
its one thing to go into a situation where you know you are going to get messed up and still go in to serve a higher purpose. but without that higher purpose there is nothing to make our pain special.
much like us, the pain may remain long after the danger has been avoided such as a broken leg after discovering a jump from a certain elevation was a bad idea. its just how the systems work.
now what i wonder is why it is some of us believe human suffering has redeeming qualities.
its one thing to go into a situation where you know you are going to get messed up and still go in to serve a higher purpose. but without that higher purpose there is nothing to make our pain special.
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dailey
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Good answer.
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JerryZ
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Well first we humans can experience 2 types of pain, material when we break a finger and spiritual.
It redeems us in that we can associate our pain to the pain our Lord Jesus experienced on the road to Calvary.
There is a benefice If we change our focus from OUR pain to Jesus’s
By offering up our pain (material or spiritual) we can become better Christians.
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MarcoPolo
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It’s always tough to give a confident “why” answer when trying to get inside God’s mind on an issue He has not specifically revealed. But I think we can look at the question theologically. The world itself is in a state of fallenness, in decay. For instance:*Romans 8:21-23 because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. *The very consequence of the introduction of sin into the world is a testament to the infectiousness of sin. As well, creation and the animals too, often can teach us about ourselves. God reveals Himself through nature as well, such as in the images of seeds in parables or stuff like that. So too, for instance:*Proverbs 6:5 save yourself like a gazelle from the hunter, like a bird from the hand of the fowler.*So the animals can teach us about ourselves, again ordered toward our salvation. Though creation is fallen and perverse, through it God speaks to mankind for the sake of his salvation. It’s a testament to the love of mankind, and the generosity of God, that man is made in His image.
Even the fact that you notice injustice of animals suffering needlessly is a sign to teach us that we should ourselves strive for justice in all things.
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HolySpirit08
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Many thanks to baseball10 and the others who responded after him/her. I found similar responses on a non-denominational site because I thought no one would understand my simple question. I very much appreciate the thoughtful and though provoking responses.
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Mar044
Guest
Lypracy causes you to lose feeling in your hands, face, etc, you get hurt and feel nothing, yet can get really bad cuts and your body has no reaction to it and causes deformities.
pain is the natural order of life, it keeps you alive and tells you something is wrong.
pain is the natural order of life, it keeps you alive and tells you something is wrong.
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Pitcharan
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Just speculating: could be since Adam, under whose care all creatures were placed, sold his dominion to Satan who wreaks havoc.
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triumphguy
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You didn’t like my simple answer?
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centurionguard
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Perhaps this might help in understanding:
carm.org/are-animals-sinful-too-why-do-animals-have-suffer
("Sin is breaking the law of God (1 John 3:4). The law of God says such things as do not lie, do not steal, etc. These are moral commands and are intended for people, not animals. Animals don’t have moral beliefs, nor do they have consciences. Also, animals are not made in the image of God as mankind is (Genesis 1:26), and are not under the moral laws intended for people. Therefore, they can’t sin. Animals work off of instinct, not off of moral purpose or obligation to honor God, and not with any spiritual connection to God.
Adam represented all mankind and the animal kingdom. When he sinned, the world was affected by it. Through him sin entered the world (Romans 5:12), which is why we have plagues, famines, etc.")
I thought this Catholic Blog gave an interesting answer. marysaggies.blogspot.ca/2010/12/why-do-animals-have-to-suffer.html
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TurboLover336
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Christ was a man on a mission of great importance.
the pain was the price paid for the gift.
sorta like the 500 spent on the latest greatest Ipad. The recipient says “oh look an IPad” not “Oh look this is worth $500” Honestly Christ got one heck of a deal … one life for generations upon generations. He really took em to the cleaners
now spiritual pain among animals … I have to wonder about that.
I used to be an avid hunter. out there I’ve seen quite a few critters do things that might indicate something contrary to the belief they haven’t that capacity.
in one case a hawk did this young bunny ugly and flew off with its carcass as they often do … nothing too out of the ordinary there. To a hawk, thats just what’s for dinner.
then I saw what I assume to be the mother frantically searching the kill site for her lost child … maternal instincts may, keyword may, account for this action. then I saw another bunny emerge. this one went to the frantic mother bunny and seemed to calm her. They sat face to face for nearly a half hour before going on their ways. what was that? compassion? mourning? … whatever that was has me carefully selecting the work “may” earlier on
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