Why must humanity be the center of the universe?

[808Catholic]

I am guessing you do not disagree. Why is primacy important? But since you asked, what criteria shall we use? How we treat each other? How we treat other species? How we treat the earth? Beavers may build a dam and we build Hoover dam but, beavers never displaced indigenous people without supplying housing, and disrupted natural habitat of wildlife.
How important are we? Would the world be better off with us or without us?

On the contrary, I respectfully disagree with your position. Man IS different from all the other animals and we have a duty to God to protect them as well as the earth that’s been created for our purpose. When Jesus came, He could have been a king or mighty ruler. Instead, the Ruler of the Universe was born to a working family and His message was I come to give you life by serving you (humans).

He created the universe and us and He comes to serve us? This is Christ’s example of leadership: you must serve those you lead. This is His lesson when He washed the feet of His Apostles on Good Thursday just before the Last Supper. If Jesus can literally stoop to serve that which He created, we, as stewards of His creation, can care for the animals and planet He entrusted to us. This includes all our brothers and sisters; not just those we agree with or are our friends. It’s our duty to God not just good civic duty.

 

[808Catholic]

I am engaged in pretty much a one-sided battle (He is clearly winning.) with a beaver on some family property in the country. He is a “Rambo” sort of character who has booby-trapped a section with foot high pointed stakes left from his voracious destruction of small trees. His intent is to trip you up and impale you. Larger trees, he fells crushing and distorting brush and other growth. What he deigns as being unworthy of his limb and bark stripping, he leaves as a tangled mess. Elsewhere, he and his kin have flooded an area that remains as a gravesite of sad grey rotting monuments of a proud forest. I may be anthropomorphizing in my paranoid rancour, but clearly, he has never posed of himself, the question you ask.

BTW - Somebody did an observational study of what beavers would do with a tape recorder issuing sounds of a bubbling brook. Of course, they tried to cover it with twigs, behaving, albeit in different circumstance, not unlike my cats in their kitty-litter box.

LOL! A beaver acting like a beaver. Good luck my friend. May God provide His creation, “Rambo the beaver”, better grounds to fulfill his purpose and leave your property to your care!

 

[robsully]

On the contrary, I respectfully disagree with your position. Man IS different from all the other animals and we have a duty to God to protect them as well as the earth that’s been created for our purpose. When Jesus came, He could have been a king or mighty ruler. Instead, the Ruler of the Universe was born to a working family and His message was I come to give you life by serving you (humans).

He created the universe and us and He comes to serve us? This is Christ’s example of leadership: you must serve those you lead. This is His lesson when He washed the feet of His Apostles on Good Thursday just before the Last Supper. If Jesus can literally stoop to serve that which He created, we, as stewards of His creation, can care for the animals and planet He entrusted to us. This includes all our brothers and sisters; not just those we agree with or are our friends. It’s our duty to God not just good civic duty.

Please provide your evidence that man is different than other animals. Please show me where and how the earth is better-off with us than without?
I will not ask for evidence of your religious beliefs, that is for another day.

 

[robsully]

On the contrary, I respectfully disagree with your position. Man IS different from all the other animals and we have a duty to God to protect them as well as the earth that’s been created for our purpose. When Jesus came, He could have been a king or mighty ruler. Instead, the Ruler of the Universe was born to a working family and His message was I come to give you life by serving you (humans).

He created the universe and us and He comes to serve us? This is Christ’s example of leadership: you must serve those you lead. This is His lesson when He washed the feet of His Apostles on Good Thursday just before the Last Supper. If Jesus can literally stoop to serve that which He created, we, as stewards of His creation, can care for the animals and planet He entrusted to us. This includes all our brothers and sisters; not just those we agree with or are our friends. It’s our duty to God not just good civic duty.

I never claimed man was not different. But why is primacy important? But please show your evidence that man is different. Please answer this question… Is the world better-off with man or without?

 

[GEddie]

I never claimed man was not different. But why is primacy important? But please show your evidence that man is different. Please answer this question… Is the world better-off with man or without?

“The world,” if by that you mean the natural planet, couldn’t give less of a flip, had it extremities to flip. It is a wet rock that existed for megamillennia without life on it of any kind; and will go on for megamillennia again after the expanding sun has baked all life from its surface.

Other species are no better than we. Ask the rabbits how they feel about the ecological havoc they wreaked in Australia (yes, humans brought them there, but we have neither perfect knowledge nor ability).

That’s right, you can’t.

Arguably, our capability to care altruistically about other species places us ahead.

ICXC NIKA

 

[robsully]

“The world,” if by that you mean the natural planet, couldn’t give less of a flip, had it extremities to flip. It is a wet rock that existed for megamillennia without life on it of any kind; and will go on for megamillennia again after the expanding sun has baked all life from its surface.

Other species are no better than we. Ask the rabbits how they feel about the ecological havoc they wreaked in Australia (yes, humans brought them there, but we have neither perfect knowledge nor ability).

That’s right, you can’t.

Arguably, our capability to care altruistically about other species places us ahead.

ICXC NIKA

I did not ask how the world felt, thought or cared.
I did not say “other species are better than we”, but they are.
Asking rabbits regarding “ecological havoc” due to man’s ignorance seems somewhat juvenile, but does provide evidence that Australia would be better off without human influence.
I do admit human altruistic care did drive the Plains Bison into extinction. Good job.

 

[808Catholic]

I never claimed man was not different. But why is primacy important? But please show your evidence that man is different. Please answer this question… Is the world better-off with man or without?

You pose a hypothetical question. The fact is man IS here. We have and can make a choice to make this earth a better place or worse.

Primacy is an issue because the race at the top of the food chain has the **moral **high ground. If, say, a killer whale, is primary of all the earth, then we should all feed ourselves to killer whales since that is what they seem to do best. Do they produce art, music, banking systems, etc? They eat, they spawn, they die. Humans can’t obviously help them spawn and I would never advocate killing them for no purpose so what’s left? If they are morally superior, we should become their food.

 

[tonyrey]

We are more precious and significant than anything else in the universe because we are the only **known **

Evidence?

 

[robsully]

You pose a hypothetical question. The fact is man IS here. We have and can make a choice to make this earth a better place or worse.

Primacy is an issue because the race at the top of the food chain has the **moral **high ground. If, say, a killer whale, is primary of all the earth, then we should all feed ourselves to killer whales since that is what they seem to do best. Do they produce art, music, banking systems, etc? They eat, they spawn, they die. Humans can’t obviously help them spawn and I would never advocate killing them for no purpose so what’s left? If they are morally superior, we should become their food.

The question hypothetical or not, has not been answered.
Please provide evidence that the animal at the top of the food chain has “Moral high ground”?
'They eat, they spawn and they die", but does their inferior morality cause them to murder, rape, torture, steal, experiment on other species, cripple, maim, infect other member of their species with diseases, molest their young, destroy the environment so nothing will live…
Might makes right is an old tired position.

 

[robsully]

Evidence?

There is a thread on the non-Catholic forum that has dealt with this question. Primates and other species have shown morality, a “sense of fairness” as well as are self aware.
There are links to studies as well as videos, dating back some years.
If I think of the name of the thread I will post it.

 

[808Catholic]

The question hypothetical or not, has not been answered.
Please provide evidence that the animal at the top of the food chain has “Moral high ground”?
'They eat, they spawn and they die", but does their inferior morality cause them to murder, rape, torture, steal, experiment on other species, cripple, maim, infect other member of their species with diseases, molest their young, destroy the environment so nothing will live…
Might makes right is an old tired position.

If you don’t believe the animal at the top of the food chain has moral high ground, do you believe ANY animal has ANY moral high ground? If not, then all our discussion from this point is moot.

 

[robsully]

If you don’t believe the animal at the top of the food chain has moral high ground, do you believe ANY animal has ANY moral high ground? If not, then all our discussion from this point is moot.

What I believe is not the issue, you have made claims and I would like to see your evidence. I have requested evidence and have not received any. If you cannot support your claims fine.

But I will answer your question in good faith (hoping you will answer mine). Who has Moral high ground, I do not know. As studies suggest and history proves, the answer is not Might nor is it decided. But if you can show me evidence otherwise…

 

[808Catholic]

What I believe is not the issue, you have made claims and I would like to see your evidence. I have requested evidence and have not received any. If you cannot support your claims fine.

But I will answer your question in good faith (hoping you will answer mine). Who has Moral high ground, I do not know. As studies suggest and history proves, the answer is not Might nor is it decided. But if you can show me evidence otherwise…

No evidence is needed. God is the only proof I have. If He is not good enough for you, I pray that He will be one day. God Bless you.

 

[robsully]

No evidence is needed. God is the only proof I have. If He is not good enough for you, I pray that He will be one day. God Bless you.

Thank you for your reply, your sincerity is noted and appreciated.

May I ask one last question, my claims require evidence. Your’s do not. I do not mind supporting my claims, I feel if I make such claims I must support them. The question: ( I mean no disrespect) How do you feel not being able to give evidence to support your assertions? Again, no disrespect, I believe you are passionate regarding your faith. Could the evidence be there ,God inspired, yet still be there? I am not invoking the anti-God card, but not to seek the proof and live it to God is foreign to me.

 

[808Catholic]

Thank you for your reply, your sincerity is noted and appreciated.

May I ask one last question, my claims require evidence. Your’s do not. I do not mind supporting my claims, I feel if I make such claims I must support them. The question: ( I mean no disrespect) How do you feel not being able to give evidence to support your assertions? Again, no disrespect, I believe you are passionate regarding your faith. Could the evidence be there ,God inspired, yet still be there? I am not invoking the anti-God card, but not to seek the proof and live it to God is foreign to me.

Your line of questioning strikes at the heart of what it is to be a Christian. In short, we believe in God not because of the preponderance of facts but without many facts. We base our belief in the Bible which is a collection of stories about how God loves His people (all of us) and desired that we have eternal life with Him. To provide this possibility, God sends His Only Son, Jesus Christ, to be born like us, live among us, and give us the best example of how to live our short lives so we may one day be judged worthy of eternal life.

In one of the crucial accounts, called the Gospel (or good news), we are told of Thomas, one of Jesus’ close followers who does not believe in the good news of Jesus’ resurrection and demands proof. Upon His next appearance, Jesus invites Thomas to put his hands into the nail marks in His hands and into the wound on His side. Thomas doesn’t even do this; he exclaims “My Lord and my God!” Thomas believes without the physical proof he demanded earlier. Why? Christians believe Thomas believed because the Holy Spirit moved him to believe.

So, I do not need proof of God because I have faith. If someone purported to have proof, as in the Shroud of Turin, that’s great but I don’t need it. I believe God left His Fingerprints everywhere but we need to see them with the “Holy Spirit glasses” instead of using our eyes. Hope this helps you understand my position.

God Bless you!

 

[robsully]

Your line of questioning strikes at the heart of what it is to be a Christian. In short, we believe in God not because of the preponderance of facts but without many facts. We base our belief in the Bible which is a collection of stories about how God loves His people (all of us) and desired that we have eternal life with Him. To provide this possibility, God sends His Only Son, Jesus Christ, to be born like us, live among us, and give us the best example of how to live our short lives so we may one day be judged worthy of eternal life.

In one of the crucial accounts, called the Gospel (or good news), we are told of Thomas, one of Jesus’ close followers who does not believe in the good news of Jesus’ resurrection and demands proof. Upon His next appearance, Jesus invites Thomas to put his hands into the nail marks in His hands and into the wound on His side. Thomas doesn’t even do this; he exclaims “My Lord and my God!” Thomas believes without the physical proof he demanded earlier. Why? Christians believe Thomas believed because the Holy Spirit moved him to believe.

So, I do not need proof of God because I have faith. If someone purported to have proof, as in the Shroud of Turin, that’s great but I don’t need it. I believe God left His Fingerprints everywhere but we need to see them with the “Holy Spirit glasses” instead of using our eyes. Hope this helps you understand my position.

God Bless you!

I must be missing the glasses. I see amazing things throughout the world, but no fingerprints. And the most amazing things of all comes/came from someone asking why. And the discoveries that result.

 

[808Catholic]

I must be missing the glasses. I see amazing things throughout the world, but no fingerprints. And the most amazing things of all comes/came from someone asking why. And the discoveries that result.

Perhaps your asking the question why IS the finger print of God. We Catholics believe God imprints an indelible mark on us when we are Baptized. Just because we have faith doesn’t mean we don’t stop asking why. To truly understand God, our best attempts start with “why” and I find the results amazing as well.

 

[tonyrey]

I must be missing the glasses. I see amazing things throughout the world, but no fingerprints. And the most amazing things of all comes/came from someone asking why. And the discoveries that result.

The ability to ask why and discover the answers is the greatest fingerprint of all. The power of reason stands out above everything else in the universe - as Pascal pointed out…