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LateranBasilica
Guest
WB to the forum after your Lenten Break MrsDizzyd
- Status
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LateranBasilica
Guest
TC3033
God created everyone. We are all part of God’s club whether we know it or not. Agree with it or not.
We all belong to God and He will do with us, what He will, in our time and season.
I would like you to know that not every Catholic feels that
Jesus taught that everyone was worthy in His dining with the outcasts of society and healing those outcast as well.
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TC3033
Guest
LOL, I’ve always joked with my wife I’m surprised her parish doesn’t do this.
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TC3033
Guest
I’m sure it’s not all…if it were I probably wouldn’t be married to one…
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LateranBasilica
Guest
Thank the Lord for our Pope, a man who recognises the Church as a field hospital for sinners
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
But what if you had died during the intervening time period? (Not to be too gloomy). It might have been spiritually dangerous.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
TC3033, I know we’ve been over this before and I know you have personal difficulties with the priest and others at your local parish being unwelcoming to you, that somehow my husband and I never encountered. But just one comment on the “in the club” business. While Catholics do try to be inclusive, and have gotten much more inclusive towards mixed marriages than we were back in my parents’ and grandparents’ day, if we simply let everybody who was a non-Catholic Christian participate in whatever Sacraments they liked, not only would many of them be participating in sacraments they didn’t fully believe in or didn’t fully understand, but also there would be zero motivation for them to join the Church. Why would they bother with RCIA or learning about/ accepting Church teaching when they can just show up and participate fully in all of our rituals and sacraments without officially joining? Since Catholics believe that the road to salvation is through the Church, and that those outside the Church are saved by coming into communion with the Church in some way, there is obviously a strong motivation to try to get people, especially our separated Christian brethren who already share some of our beliefs, to join the Church.
Every organization that has a motivation to try to get people to join is going to reserve some benefits for “members only”. Otherwise you just end up with a lot of free riders.
I’m also honestly confused by some non-Catholics who do not want to join the Church and don’t even believe everything it teaches, but are bothered by the fact that they can’t take Communion. Why would they want to receive a sacrament from a church that they personally don’t believe is the true one or don’t choose to follow? In my husband’s case, he did not believe in the Real Presence so he did not take Communion and didn’t even go up for a blessing because, since he didn’t believe in it, he felt it was for Catholics who did believe. He was never bothered by having to refrain because he wasn’t going to participate in something he personally didn’t believe in.
Every organization that has a motivation to try to get people to join is going to reserve some benefits for “members only”. Otherwise you just end up with a lot of free riders.
I’m also honestly confused by some non-Catholics who do not want to join the Church and don’t even believe everything it teaches, but are bothered by the fact that they can’t take Communion. Why would they want to receive a sacrament from a church that they personally don’t believe is the true one or don’t choose to follow? In my husband’s case, he did not believe in the Real Presence so he did not take Communion and didn’t even go up for a blessing because, since he didn’t believe in it, he felt it was for Catholics who did believe. He was never bothered by having to refrain because he wasn’t going to participate in something he personally didn’t believe in.
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TC3033
Guest
A) I never said that non-Catholics should be able to participate.
B) I was just saying that off handed comments like such can be construed as unwelcoming. That’s been some of our biggest issues. Same thing with our neighbors.
C) If you’re really interested in why some non-Catholics find it unwelcoming that they are told they are not welcome to your table, I can PM you. I won’t take it up here as I was moderated once for doing so.
As far as you and your husband’s experience go…I have no idea. We’ve been to two parishes that have kinda been carbon copies. We thought this one was going to be more progressive, but they made a left turn at Albuquerque a few months after my wife joined. TBH, they’ve gotten better in some respects…on others not so much.
She’s discussed going back out to the country parish to see if it’s gotten better.
B) I was just saying that off handed comments like such can be construed as unwelcoming. That’s been some of our biggest issues. Same thing with our neighbors.
C) If you’re really interested in why some non-Catholics find it unwelcoming that they are told they are not welcome to your table, I can PM you. I won’t take it up here as I was moderated once for doing so.
As far as you and your husband’s experience go…I have no idea. We’ve been to two parishes that have kinda been carbon copies. We thought this one was going to be more progressive, but they made a left turn at Albuquerque a few months after my wife joined. TBH, they’ve gotten better in some respects…on others not so much.
She’s discussed going back out to the country parish to see if it’s gotten better.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Thanks, but I am not really that interested. I have had at least a dozen blood relatives or relatives by marriage who are not Catholic, as my father was a convert and the only Catholic in his family which had 2 or 3 Protestant denominations in it, and my husband was a Protestant from a family that has at least 3 denominations of Protestants in it as well as a few Catholics. This has simply not been an issue in my extended family. No one except possibly a couple of Catholics in very “irregular” situations ever felt the Church was “unwelcoming” to them, and the non-Catholics in the family frankly didn’t care what the Catholic Church did and didn’t spend much (or in some cases, any) time there.
God bless and I hope you and your wife are able to find a way she can continue to practice her faith without you having continued negative experiences.
God bless and I hope you and your wife are able to find a way she can continue to practice her faith without you having continued negative experiences.
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TC3033
Guest
Ok, no problem. I figured you may be interested since posing the question.
We’ll see after this year. We committed to at least getting our middle one through 1st communion there and reevaluate. They’ve lost a lot of people in the last few years, I think quite a few young families.
We’ll see after this year. We committed to at least getting our middle one through 1st communion there and reevaluate. They’ve lost a lot of people in the last few years, I think quite a few young families.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
If they are losing a lot of people, it may be that the priest and staff have difficulty getting along with people in general and it’s not just you. I’ve seen cases of that.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Restrictions on who can receive Holy Communion have been around since at least the middle of the second century, including the need to believe that all the things which the Catholic Church teaches are true:
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TC3033
Guest
Oh, I know it’s not just us…and I don’t know if it’s not really staff.
From our point of view the side comments about non-Catholics is getting over the top. Our neighbors are in a mixed-marrige and he would go to Mass even when she wasn’t (she travels a lot). Now he won’t unless she’s home and goes. I used to just stay home with our youngest, but he’s getting to old to stay home.
IMHO, his comments are one thing that drive people out and the other has been their change to the RE program.
From our point of view the side comments about non-Catholics is getting over the top. Our neighbors are in a mixed-marrige and he would go to Mass even when she wasn’t (she travels a lot). Now he won’t unless she’s home and goes. I used to just stay home with our youngest, but he’s getting to old to stay home.
IMHO, his comments are one thing that drive people out and the other has been their change to the RE program.
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Saint_Prince_Caspian
Guest
#1
First, if it’s permissible to ask. How did you come about becoming Christian? Your journey.
I ask, as many people who are non-Catholic (i.e. those of orient eastern beliefs like Hindu’s, Buddhist’s; or monotheistic beliefs as Jewish and Muslims; or agnostic, or atheist.) And to be honest, everyone has a unique journey, though many share the same questions, and wonder for the truth.
But, in reality, everyone is called to Penance. For Saint John the Baptist said: “Repent! For the kingdom of God is at hand.” And, Christ came to the Jordan, and received Saint John the Baptist’s Baptism. Wherefore, Christ elevated that Baptism onto His own, saying: “…baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
Thus, all to be Christian, are called to be Baptized (for the forgiveness of one’s sins.)
He also illustrated to the Church, through His Holy Apostle’s (whom He gave the binding and loosening with the keys.) “Whose sins you’ve forgiven, are forgiven. And whose sins you’ve retained, are retained.”
He thus placed this Order of the Apostle’s in which all are called to receive Baptism (to be in His Body - I wouldn’t use the word “member.”) Since we’re talking about Sacrament and Communion.
The Body of Christ is literally His body. However, the form of His Body, is in the appearance of bread. For that is when He says: “Real food…”
Why was His Body the food? Because, He was the Sacrifice. The Slain Lamb. For which men ate during the Passover. Because, the lamb of the Passover was sacrilegiously held among the Jewish people (meaning, they did not offer this for reparation and forgiveness of sins, as they had ought to do. And also they did not live in a manner efficacious to the Covenant God made with Moses.) This like the time of Noah, led man waning away. Thus, Christ took on the Sacrifice Himself. being the Lamb. Thus, offering His Ownself, His Own Body in Reparation for sins as the efficacious Sacrifice. Remember, He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (not to abolish them.)
Thus, Reparation for one’s sins is still a call for Penance (which is thus, Baptism, Confession.) Baptism first, and then the binding and loosening of one’s sins.
First, if it’s permissible to ask. How did you come about becoming Christian? Your journey.
I ask, as many people who are non-Catholic (i.e. those of orient eastern beliefs like Hindu’s, Buddhist’s; or monotheistic beliefs as Jewish and Muslims; or agnostic, or atheist.) And to be honest, everyone has a unique journey, though many share the same questions, and wonder for the truth.
But, in reality, everyone is called to Penance. For Saint John the Baptist said: “Repent! For the kingdom of God is at hand.” And, Christ came to the Jordan, and received Saint John the Baptist’s Baptism. Wherefore, Christ elevated that Baptism onto His own, saying: “…baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
Thus, all to be Christian, are called to be Baptized (for the forgiveness of one’s sins.)
He also illustrated to the Church, through His Holy Apostle’s (whom He gave the binding and loosening with the keys.) “Whose sins you’ve forgiven, are forgiven. And whose sins you’ve retained, are retained.”
He thus placed this Order of the Apostle’s in which all are called to receive Baptism (to be in His Body - I wouldn’t use the word “member.”) Since we’re talking about Sacrament and Communion.
The Body of Christ is literally His body. However, the form of His Body, is in the appearance of bread. For that is when He says: “Real food…”
Why was His Body the food? Because, He was the Sacrifice. The Slain Lamb. For which men ate during the Passover. Because, the lamb of the Passover was sacrilegiously held among the Jewish people (meaning, they did not offer this for reparation and forgiveness of sins, as they had ought to do. And also they did not live in a manner efficacious to the Covenant God made with Moses.) This like the time of Noah, led man waning away. Thus, Christ took on the Sacrifice Himself. being the Lamb. Thus, offering His Ownself, His Own Body in Reparation for sins as the efficacious Sacrifice. Remember, He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (not to abolish them.)
Thus, Reparation for one’s sins is still a call for Penance (which is thus, Baptism, Confession.) Baptism first, and then the binding and loosening of one’s sins.
S
Saint_Prince_Caspian
Guest
#2
To receive the Sacrifice (the Son of God Who became the Lamb to Sacrifice, and the beholden feast of Passover for the full reparation and forgiveness of sins.) Does one need to be Baptized. Which is the act of Penance.
When a baby is Baptized, as through the sins of Adam all were born into sin. Thus, through the parents sharing their child’s life through the Sacrament of Baptism (Christ’s), all are born to eternal life. These children are born from above, as Christ answered Joseph of Arimetha’s question.
Baptism, though the baby cannot knowingly repent from the sins of Adam (not knowing the curse and fall was going to be upon him or her.) Do the parents avail their child to the Sacrament of Baptism as a sign of penance of their own. To make up for the sins of Adam, through Christ in His Church.
That is being in the state of grace to receive the Holy Sacrament. Which children will grow up, and thus receive their “First Communion.”
The Sacrifice made at Calvary, which the priest gives at Mass. Is given through the Waters of Baptism. Because, when the faithful receive Christ in the Sacrifice, it is through the Waters of Baptism, where they are made wholly innocent again (or through Confession.) Bringing them back to the state of grace. They in part share in that Sacrifice. Making their own Holy Innocent Sacrifice, as Christ did, into His. Sharing.
Christ also takes our wounded and bruised souls through sin, Even if we’re Baptized. Or then we’re Baptized, but must go to Confession (if the sin is grave.) With that, He still takes atonement for our sins. Even though we’re forgiven already in Baptism. And thus, even when we’ve been forgiven through Confession (restoring us back to the Baptized state.) We’re obliged to receive Him in the Holy Sacrifice as Reparation and Atonement for our sins, because, as we say in Mass: “it is Right, and it is Just.” Eucharist - Thanksgiving.
To receive the Sacrifice (the Son of God Who became the Lamb to Sacrifice, and the beholden feast of Passover for the full reparation and forgiveness of sins.) Does one need to be Baptized. Which is the act of Penance.
When a baby is Baptized, as through the sins of Adam all were born into sin. Thus, through the parents sharing their child’s life through the Sacrament of Baptism (Christ’s), all are born to eternal life. These children are born from above, as Christ answered Joseph of Arimetha’s question.
Baptism, though the baby cannot knowingly repent from the sins of Adam (not knowing the curse and fall was going to be upon him or her.) Do the parents avail their child to the Sacrament of Baptism as a sign of penance of their own. To make up for the sins of Adam, through Christ in His Church.
That is being in the state of grace to receive the Holy Sacrament. Which children will grow up, and thus receive their “First Communion.”
The Sacrifice made at Calvary, which the priest gives at Mass. Is given through the Waters of Baptism. Because, when the faithful receive Christ in the Sacrifice, it is through the Waters of Baptism, where they are made wholly innocent again (or through Confession.) Bringing them back to the state of grace. They in part share in that Sacrifice. Making their own Holy Innocent Sacrifice, as Christ did, into His. Sharing.
Christ also takes our wounded and bruised souls through sin, Even if we’re Baptized. Or then we’re Baptized, but must go to Confession (if the sin is grave.) With that, He still takes atonement for our sins. Even though we’re forgiven already in Baptism. And thus, even when we’ve been forgiven through Confession (restoring us back to the Baptized state.) We’re obliged to receive Him in the Holy Sacrifice as Reparation and Atonement for our sins, because, as we say in Mass: “it is Right, and it is Just.” Eucharist - Thanksgiving.
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halogirl
Guest
I was baptised , regularly asking Gods forgiveness and trying to live according to the Gospel. Had experienced the Holy Spirit many times. Why wouldn’t God have shown me mercy ? As many on here have said, God isn’t waiting to catch you out on a technicality especially as I didn’t know any better
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
I don’t know whether God would have shown you mercy or not. Nobody knows. Why doesn’t God show mercy to anyone or everyone? Maybe He does, maybe He doesn’t! The whole thing is, we don’t know.
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halogirl
Guest
Of course he would. Now I’m not saying I would have gone straight to heaven (probably not !) but anyone who is sorry for what they’ve done and trusting on his mercy can be saved. Jesus saves. We are not meant to be going around terrified of going to hell. We are expected to be doing our best in thanks for the grace we did not earn.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
While I agree that God might well be merciful to a Protestant who made this mistake out of true ignorance, to claim that it isn’t “spiritually dangerous” is going a bit far, as an unworthy communion IS spiritually dangerous even if one had a good intention when receiving.
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halogirl
Guest
Hmmm well luckily it led me to the church 
so He obviously made it to work for my good in this case
so He obviously made it to work for my good in this case- Status