Why no "American" Orthodox Patriarchy?

[Hesychios]

A better question is why the largest single eastern catholic church is still a Major Archbishopric, and not a Patriarchate… and that apparently boils down to Appeasing Alexi II of Moscow… as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is long overdue for it. Axios!

In North America?

You must mean the Metropolitan of K’yiv-Halich.

I would not blame that on Moscow (of course he will object, any MP would), that’s not news. What is news is that some people are trying to make it sound like that’s the reason the Pope has not acted. The Pope has every right to elevate that See to a Patriarchate. He does not need anyone else’s permission, not even a Council. Vatican Council II pre-loaded ther Pope’s gun, he can fire at will and erect a Patriarch anywhere he recognizes a perceived need. He is the Supreme Pontiff dammit, with formal claims over every church, including Moscow, by that theory he does not have to explain his actions to anyone.

However, I personally have never seen the value of multiplication of Patriarchs, there are too many already (that’s just an opinion I have held for years). The Ukrainians are being rather political about it.

In any case, the Ukrainian problem can be solved quite easily by the church declaring itself returning to autocephaly, as it had asserted before when it declared itself ready and able to join itself to Rome, asking no one’s permission, not Moscow, not the EP, not a Pan Orthodox synod, no one. They just did it.

If Rome and Moscow are perceived to be playing some kind of game, and they don’t like it, they can just say fie to both and go ahead with it.

This would probably work in Ukraine, because the government would very likely sympathize with the move and they could win in court.

 

[Patchunky]

Note that the Carpetho-Rusyn Greek Catholics in Europe are considered part of the same Church, but are direct papal dependencies, not under Metropolitan Basil’s Omophor.

Note that the Greek Catholics in Slovakia are under the omophor of Metropolitan Jan Babjak.

Also note that they do not call themselves Carpatho-Rusyn Greek Catholics as that is an American term.

http://sk.fotoalbum.eu/images/9289/27416/00000022.jpg

 

[bpbasilphx]

Not all primates of Autocephalous Orthodox Churches have the title “Patriarch.”

The Churches of Greece and Cyprus and Sinai are autocephalous, and their primates use the title “Archbishop.”

Poland, I believe, is autocephalous, and it uses “Metropolitan.”

 

[Hesychios]

Note that the Greek Catholics in Slovakia are under the omophor of Metropolitan Jan Babjak.

Clearly they are both direct Papal dependencies.

All of the churches traceable back to the Union of Uzhorod have been direct dependencies up until the present day, they are quite divided and have no Patriarch, or even a Major-Metropolitan (a Catholic classification). The bishop of Rome acts as a surrogate.

 

[Wesley7]

If you have a point to this statement that relates to why the Orthodox Church has not set up a seperate Patriarchy anywhere on the North or South American continent, please explain fully.
Please don’t just toss out one liners as though they are some kind of real, legitiamte and understandable answer.
Thanks.

Peace
James

First of all, the installment of a patriarchate would affect the structure of the US government. A legitimate patriarch would have as much authority as the president or more. The whole “liberty,values,and freedom” concept proliferated in American ideals is not compatible with the religious concept of obedience and submission to proper authorities.

 

[JRKH]

First of all, the installment of a patriarchate would affect the structure of the US government. A legitimate patriarch would have as much authority as the president or more. The whole “liberty,values,and freedom” concept proliferated in American ideals is not compatible with the religious concept of obedience and submission to proper authorities.

Are you sure about that?
Are you saying that the Patriarchs in Constantinople and Alexandria etc have as much authority as the political leadership of those countries? Even though those countries are largely Muslim?

Peace
James

 

[Wesley7]

Are you sure about that?
Are you saying that the Patriarchs in Constantinople and Alexandria etc have as much authority as the political leadership of those countries? Even though those countries are largely Muslim?

Peace
James

I’m pretty sure. Even the Muslim countries have a religious groundwork… America, on the other hand, declared itself a government independent of all religions. A liberal “democracy” based on freedom,morals,and values.

 

[Hesychios]

I’m pretty sure. Even the Muslim countries have a religious groundwork… America, on the other hand, declared itself a government independent of all religions. A liberal “democracy” based on freedom,morals,and values.

Hey…don’t Bogart that thing…pass it around!

 

[Wesley7]

I’m not convinced that America has any religious foundation.

 

[Hesychios]

I’m not convinced that America has any religious foundation.

To be perfectly honest, me neither.

 

[jam070406]

I’m not convinced that America has any religious foundation.

Except for maybe Freemasonry. :hypno:

 

[mardukm]

First of all, the installment of a patriarchate would affect the structure of the US government. A legitimate patriarch would have as much authority as the president or more. The whole “liberty,values,and freedom” concept proliferated in American ideals is not compatible with the religious concept of obedience and submission to proper authorities.

That’s an interesting perspective. In the recent past, the Turkish government ruled that the title “Ecumenical patriarch” does not have any legal standing. Understandably, the EP was dismayed, and the reason is perhaps related to your opinion on the matter.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Aramis]

I’m not convinced that America has any religious foundation.

Oh, it absolutely does… a mixture of secular humanism (as practiced by the libidinous Benjamin Franklin), and abstract deism (several other founding fathers), and a general protestant population (mostly CoE), with a large handful of Quakers, Menonites, and others of that tradition.

By the 1830’s, however, that mixture was falling to secularism.

 

[Peter_J]

Patchunky;4021777:

Note that the Greek Catholics in Slovakia are under the omophor of Metropolitan Jan Babjak.

Clearly they are both direct Papal dependencies.

I was a little confused at first by Patchunky’s statement, but after doing a little checking I see that he is correct.

The Eparchy of Prešov was a suffragan of the Roman See, but as of 30 January, 2008, it is a Metropolitan See with two suffragans, the Eparchy of Bratislava and the Eparchy of Košice. (See.)