Why no FSSP/ICKSP in New England?

[Chatter163]

There is a clarification that has to be made here. These are the places where they have men. But their largest concentration is at their motherhouse. The numbers in other dioceses are small.

I am not sure what that means. Most of their apostolates have one or two priests, which means that the vast majority (80+ percent) of their priests and apostolates in the US are NOT in the Midwest. Besides, their North American District headquarters (“motherhouse,” as you called it) is in Scranton–also not in the Midwest.

 

[littlequestion]

…

The FSSP belong to the Traditionalist movement, but they are not an order. They are not religious. They make no vows. They are secular priests who live in a community called a fraternal society. Each one can come and go as he pleases. But their number in the USA is small, so they can’t go out to many dioceses. They are wonderful society, but they are concentrated in the Midwest. They are growing. Give them time. As they grow they will be able to go into more dioceses.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

What is a “secular priest”?

 

[Chatter163]

What is a “secular priest”?

A priest who is under the jurisdiction of the diocese, and not any religious order.

 

[JReducation]

What is a “secular priest”?

A secular priest is not consecrated in any way. Canonically the Church calls him from among the ranks of baptized secular men to serve, but he remains a secular man. He does not make vows, live in a community, is not bound to follow a rule or constitution of a religious institute, is not bound to a religious superior (except those who belong to a society), does not have to live in a house that belongs to any community, is bound to serve either a diocese or where ever his society goes.

Maybe it’s easier to see in bullets.

• Obedience: a secular deacon and priest PROMISE, not vow, obedience to the local bishop. If they belong to a society, such as the FSSP, they promise to obey the superior. But neither the superior nor the bishop have any authority over their spiritual lives or their personal choices.
• Religious make a VOW of obedience to the founder of the community, the major superior, the constitutions and to the other members of their community. Their obedience does not include the bishops. Bishops have no jurisdiction over religious men or women, only their major superior does or whomever he delegates. Obedience means that you must do as your told and that your superior has authority over every aspect of your life. For example, in my community we don’t leave the house without permissioin and the blessing of the person in charge, that may be the superior or the oldest in the community.
• Chastity: secular priests and deacons do not make vows of chastity. They make a PORMISE of celibacy, if they are not already married. This means that they will not attempt to get married… If they are married, they will not attempt marriage after they are widowed.
• Religious do not promise celibacy, because we make a vow of chastity, which includes celibacy and a little more. The vow of chastity frees us from our biological families. We become members of the religious family that we join. The religious institute replaces your biological family. Therefore, the vow of chastity binds you to love, serve and care for your religious brothers or sisters, as you would your spouse, parents, or children. Also, the vow of chastity binds you to be part of a religious family. You may not be isolated from it. Even when you’re away, you are connected to a religious house and you must report there as mandated by the superior. You also have to provide care for your older brothers or sisters.
• Secular priests and deacons do not have a community or religious family. Therefore, they do not have to take care of each other, nor are they obliged to provide for older deacons and priests. Each one must save money to take care of himself or make arrangements with a family member.
• Poverty: deacons and priests do not vow poverty. They get paid for their work and they keep their money. They may own property, have insurance accounts, have stocks, inherit money from their family, own a business that someone else runs, own their own cars, purchase what they please with their money, and do what everyone else does with their money.
• Religiuos may not own anything. They do not get paid. Religious may not have insurance, stocks, inheritances, retirement plans or any form of financial security. Together, as a family, they pull their resources to take care of their material needs. Religoius must ask for permission to use money and to purchase things. For example, in my community we ask for permission to buy toothpaste. The superior gives us the money or buys it for us when he goes out. Usuallly, he buys plenty of these things that get used a lot and stores them in a closet. We just ask for permission to take one. But no on has their own toothpaste. We share it and so forth with clothes, cars, computers, telephone, etc.

Does that help? The FSSP are a secular society. These frees them to move around more, because they don’t have to get as many permissions as religious do. They also have the freedom to serve in parishes. Religious can only serve in parishes if the founder allows it in the rule and if there is a critical shortage. Those two conditions must be met. Societies like the Vincentians, FSSP, ICRSS and Maryknoll can freely commit to parishes and do not have to live in community. That’s why they can do it with just two members. Religious would need at least three to five in a house or be attached to another house.

Also, if a religious man is also a priest, he must get the permission of his major superior to celebrate the EF. Summorum Pontificum does not give priests in vows blanket permission to celebrate the EF. It depends on the major superiors and on the laws of the religious institute.

As a secular society, the FSSP and the others I mentioned, don’t have to get permission to celebrate the EF. They just have to agree among themselves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jrs88]

The title of this thread suprises me. I notice that the proper initials, FSSP, are used for the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, but not the proper initials, ICRSS, for the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest.

Like most orders and societies of apostolic life, the societies use Latin initials. The FSSP initials seem to be consistently used by English speakers when posting (I have never seem anyone write “PFSP”), but not the ICRSS initials, as I frequently see “ICKSP” in postings Why are the English initials erroneously used for one and not the other?

Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest does have the initials ICKSP in English. I don’t know what the Latin initials stand for so I had no way of knowing what letters to put for it. Also I’ve always seen it written ICKSP. I mean I have no problem with Latin, (just look at the post, lol, but anyway, I didn’t know. And I always thought FSSP in Latin was Fraternalis Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri?

 

[jrs88]

“Concentrated in the Midwest”? The following is a list of American dioceses listed with FSSP apostolates in 2010. Only the boldfaced dioceses are in the Midwest.

Phoenix, AZ
Little Rock, AR
Sacramento, CA
Fresno, CA
San Diego, CA
Colorado Springs, CO
Denver, CO
Venice, FL
Orlando, FL
Atlanta, GA
Boise, ID
Joliet, IL
Springfield, IL
Fort Wayne-South Bend, IN
Indianapolis, IN
Kansas City, KS
Lexington, KY
Lincoln, NE
Omaha, NE
Paterson, NJ
Cincinnati, OH
Youngstown, OH
Tulsa, OK
Oklahoma City, OK
Harrisburg, PA
Scranton, PA
Rapid City, SD
Corpus Christi, TX
Dallas, TX
Fort Worth, TX
Tyler, TX
Richmond, VA
Seattle, WA

Now I am a bit confused…because someone said that a parish in Fitchburg MA has an FSSP priest, but it is not in this list. Are these parishes that belong exclusively to the FSSP? And maybe the one in Fitchburg has an FSSP priest but is not a parish completely staffed by the FSSP?

 

[jrs88]

Actually, there are many “convservative” religious orders in MA, especially Boston and its surrounding areas.

Observant Franciscan Friars,
Capuchin Franciscan Friars
Franciscan Friars of the Ancient Observance
Little Brothers of St. Francis
Little Brothers of Jesus
Poor Clare Nuns

MA has the second largest Franciscan population in the USA. All of the above branches of the Franciscan family are MA. The reason that you don’t see these communities is that most of them do not have men and women in parishes. It was in the mind of the founder that there be few men ordained to the priesthood and that they not serve in parishes, except in the missions. They were to be itinerant. The number of Friars who are ordained are few and those serving in parishes are not being replaced by a younger generation of friars, because of the Franciscan reform. The younger friars, ordained and non-clerical are assigned to houses where the Franciscan tradition is being lived.

But these orders do a lot of field work on the streets, with the homeless, soup kitchens, drug addicts, pro-life, contemplation, youth ministry, the homebound, immigrants and other vulnerable members of society.

The point is that the Traditional Orders are not avoiding MA. They are present. But few of them serve in parishes and most never serve the middle class. If you go into the poorer sectors of the area, you will see them waling the streets in their habits, sitting on corners talking to a homeless person or gathered in a small house that they call a friary. They are in the area and are doing great work for the local Church.

The FSSP belong to the Traditionalist movement, but they are not an order. They are not religious. They make no vows. They are secular priests who live in a community called a fraternal society. Each one can come and go as he pleases. But their number in the USA is small, so they can’t go out to many dioceses. They are wonderful society, but they are concentrated in the Midwest. They are growing. Give them time. As they grow they will be able to go into more dioceses.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That’s great that there are so many Franciscans in Boston( I have never seen one except for Sean Cardinal O’Malley)…well actually in Boston I know there is a soup kitchen run by them…I posted because I am looking for regular Latin Masses and I really like the FSSP (From what I’ve seen on the internet/heard). I hope they do grow and spread, and it sounds like there is already one of their priests here. Thanks for the info!

 

[JReducation]

That’s great that there are so many Franciscans in Boston( I have never seen one except for Sean Cardinal O’Malley)…well actually in Boston I know there is a soup kitchen run by them…I posted because I am looking for regular Latin Masses and I really like the FSSP (From what I’ve seen on the internet/heard). I hope they do grow and spread, and it sounds like there is already one of their priests here. Thanks for the info!

I don’t know if it’s a priest from the FSSP or one from the diocese, but I read a post from a Bostonian just last week. He mentioned a parish in Boston that has the EF. I’m assuming that is what you’re looking for when you say Latin Mass. I know that the OF is celebrated in Latin by most Franciscans, but it’s usually one on a weekend, not every day.

You may want to call the Pastoral Center and ask to speak to someone in the Communications Office. They have all that information on hand.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[littlequestion]

Oh, this is a marvelous thread. we have a lovely FSSP priest celebrating the TLM in our parish and our pastor also celebrates it from time to time.

Now, about this secular priest thing, you are telling me that a man can become a priest though married? Does this promise of celibacy mean that he and his wife would have to live platonically after that, or does it simply prohibit remarriage if he should become a widower?

 

[JReducation]

Oh, this is a marvelous thread. we have a lovely FSSP priest celebrating the TLM in our parish and our pastor also celebrates it from time to time.

Now, about this secular priest thing, you are telling me that a man can become a priest though married? Does this promise of celibacy mean that he and his wife would have to live platonically after that, or does it simply prohibit remarriage if he should become a widower?

The law in the Church for the West is that men must be single to be ordained priests. However, the Church in the East is not bound to this. They can be married and be ordained. Also, a minister who converts to Catholicism and is married can be ordained.

When the man is single, he makes a promise of celibacy at his diaconate ordination. If he is married, he promises to be celibate, if his wife dies before him.

But do not get confused, because they are secular priests, does not mean that they can be married. Married men in the Eastern Rites can be ordained priests. In our Western Rite, a married man can be ordained a priest only if he was a minister and converted and only if the bishop calls him to Holy Orders.

Obviously, no married man can join a religious community. The marriage rule only applies to secular priests not to religious. A religious is a consecrated man, whether he’s a priest or a brother. Consecrated men cannot be married, neither in the east or the west.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[AJV]

That’s great that there are so many Franciscans in Boston( I have never seen one except for Sean Cardinal O’Malley)…well actually in Boston I know there is a soup kitchen run by them…I posted because I am looking for regular Latin Masses and I really like the FSSP (From what I’ve seen on the internet/heard). I hope they do grow and spread, and it sounds like there is already one of their priests here. Thanks for the info!

The Cathedral of the Holy Cross has a Mass every Sunday which is usually a mix of a Cantata and Lecta. Fr. Anda at St. Columbkille’s in Brighton has one every First Friday, and in Newton, Mary Immaculate has one everyday.

 

[Chatter163]

Now I am a bit confused…because someone said that a parish in Fitchburg MA has an FSSP priest, but it is not in this list. Are these parishes that belong exclusively to the FSSP? And maybe the one in Fitchburg has an FSSP priest but is not a parish completely staffed by the FSSP?

I copied the list of FSSP apostolates from their 2010 Ordo and Directory. There is no Massachussetts apostolate listed.

 

[Chatter163]

Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest does have the initials ICKSP in English. I don’t know what the Latin initials stand for so I had no way of knowing what letters to put for it. Also I’ve always seen it written ICKSP. I mean I have no problem with Latin, (just look at the post, lol, but anyway, I didn’t know. And I always thought FSSP in Latin was Fraternalis Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri?

ICRSS are the initials for the Order, just as FSSP is for the Fraternity. Both are the Latin initials that come after priest members’ names. A priest from the Institute has the initials ICRSS after his name, rather than ICKSP. Neither order is headquarted in the USA, and they do not use English language initials for the name of their societies.

 

[JReducation]

Just to prevent confusion. The Institute of Christ the King and the Society of St. Peter are not orders or congregations. They are not religious. They are societies of apostolic life or priestly societies.

If they were religious, they would have to submit to the rules that govern a fraternity and could not make parish work their primary ministry. That is not good for them, because they want to be parish priests. Religious men were founded to do other kinds of ministries and only cover parishes as a favor to the laity and bishop. But parish work is not the vocatioin of the religious. These priestly societies have a vocation to be parish priests, not mendicants, monastics or missionaries. That’s why they are not orders or religious congregations. They are meant to stay put in a parish.

That being said, they are not the only priests who celebrate the EF. There are priests in the New England area who celebrate it. Someone just mentioned a few places in one of the above posts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jerry74383]

Good question. I’ve often wondered the same thing. Perhaps it’s because of American xenophobia since the ICRSS is basically a French-speaking group?

Be wary of attributing to malice that which can be explained by ignorance.

In my experience, the FSSP is commonly referred to as such. In fact, many incorrectly assume the initials stand for “Fraternal Society of St. Peter”, or something similar.

On the other hand, the Institute is commonly referred to by it’s English name, either in full or only the first portion. Many people simply aren’t aware of the correct initials and use the initial letters of the words in the English name.

 

[Thepeug]

Actually, there are many “convservative” religious orders in MA, especially Boston and its surrounding areas.

Observant Franciscan Friars,
Capuchin Franciscan Friars
Franciscan Friars of the Ancient Observance
Little Brothers of St. Francis
Little Brothers of Jesus
Poor Clare Nuns

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are also located in MA (New Bedford), and celebrate the EF on a regular basis: marymediatrix.com/communities/new-bedford

 

[JReducation]

The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are also located in MA (New Bedford), and celebrate the EF on a regular basis: marymediatrix.com/communities/new-bedford

Thanks for that. I had completely forgotten that our brothers were going to New Bedford. Someone had told me that they were going to found in New Bedford. Didn’t they go there about 15 years ago, when our other brothers, the Friars Minor moved to Providence?

I don’t know if the FSSP and the ICKSP have plans to go to New England in the near future. I guess it all depends on their numbers. Afterall, the USA is very large. You can’t cover every corner with one society.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF