Why no Sign of Peace?

[Veritas41]

I found this in *Redemptionis Sacramentum *on the Adoremus website (www.adoremus.org):

[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion. For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist.151 It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.
[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See.152

 

[Brendan]

Well, there is the Deacon’s statement of Let us offer each other the sign of peace after the Celebrant’s The Peace of the Lord be with you always, which does imply that some sort of gesture, even if merely optional, is preferred, even if not explicitely stated in the GIRM.

The GIRM states that this is at the discretion of the priest (or deacon)

1. Then the priest, with hands extended, says aloud the prayer, *Domine Iesu Christe, qui dixisti *(Lord Jesus Christ, you said). After this prayer is concluded, extending and then joining his hands, he gives the greeting of peace while facing the people and saying, Pax Domini sit simper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always). The people answer, *Et cum spiritu *tuo (And also with you). Afterwards, when appropriate, the priest adds, Offerte vobis pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace).

1. After the priest has said the prayer at the Rite of Peace and the greeting* Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum *(The peace of the Lord be with you always) and the people have responded, *Et cum spiritu tuo *(And also with you), the deacon, if it is appropriate, invites all to exchange the sign of peace. He faces the people and, with hands joined, says, *Offerte vobis pacem pacem *(Let us offer each other the sign of peace). Then he himself receives the sign of peace from the priest and may offer it to those other ministers who are closer to him.

 

[MTD]

I thought I’d close this discussion with a few thoughts in conclusion.

I cannot speak for EWTN and the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament, but in regards to my parish, I feel the omission of the Sign of Peace is due to three things: 1) It’s not traditional to have the Sign of Peace among members of the congregation; i.e., the Tridentine Mass does not have it. 2) There is wide abuse of the practice and no doubt many feel that it would get to be the same way even in our parish were we to have it. 3) Former Cardinal Ratzinger himself expressed misgivings on it in The Spirit of the Liturgy (according to a review I read; I haven’t a copy myself to verify).

Yes, I know I didn’t address the first and third reason in any of my posts above, but I had them in mind nonetheless. I didn’t talk about them because I didn’t want to put any ideas into your heads; I wanted to see if any of you would bring up those reasons yourselves, which is why I even started this thread in the first place. Manfred did bring up the first reason. I believe no one brought up the third reason because it cannot be said to be a reason per se for wanting to omit the Sign of Peace; in other words, Ratzinger’s writings only give expression to the reasons already held. But I’m quite sure that Ratzinger’s writings on this matter have reinforced very strongly the opinions of my fellow parishioners on this issue.

And now to satisfy your unspoken curiosity: I personally prefer no Sign of Peace (among members of the congregation). Regardless of the intention and meaning of the rubric, there is no doubt the Sign of Peace disrupts the prayerful preparation for Holy Communion. And I admit that I find it a little difficult to understand the words “signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist” in Redemptionis Sacramentum since the Eucharist is the source of our communion; I mean, the main reason holding hands during the Our Father is improper is because it is a sign of communion in the face of the very Source and Sign of our communion, the reception of the Holy Eucharist. Ratzinger was right when in The Spirit of the Liturgy he questioned the placement and even the continuation of this rubric.

Maria

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I was under the assumption that you were asking to find out why, and not that you already had answers in mind. That would explain why, no matter what else we said, you told us it was not the reason.

I have to tell you, I feel as if I’ve been tested, instead of being in dialogue or answering a question. And I feel a bit hookwinked, to tell you the truth. You stated your parish was conservative. A parish can be conservative and not have a TLM.

 

[valient_Lucy]

My understanding of the Kiss of Peace is that it is symbolic of our making peace with those who have something against us. Jesus commands us to make peace before offering our gifts at the altar. If people were taught this, I believe more conservative Catholics would favor the Kiss of Peace.

That’s how I’ve always thought of the Kiss of Peace.

 

[MTD]

I was under the assumption that you were asking to find out why, and not that you already had answers in mind. That would explain why, no matter what else we said, you told us it was not the reason.

You know, there is such a thing as playing the Devil’s Advocate.

Actually, I still did want to see if there were any other reasons that I hadn’t thought of, but frankly, I didn’t really think I’d have much luck. If I don’t know the answer to something, I usually consult some authority or expert on the matter rather than ask on this forum.

I have to tell you, I feel as if I’ve been tested, instead of being in dialogue or answering a question. And I feel a bit hookwinked, to tell you the truth.

I’m sorry. If you follow my posts, you’ll see that I’m very argumentive and not always very courteous. But I did warn you when I asked for intelligent answers; in other words, all answers would be thoroughly scrutinized by me.

Maria

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

If I don’t know the answer to something, I usually consult some authority or expert on the matter rather than ask on this forum.

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence in our collective ability; particularly that of those who are priests, deacons, those with advanced theology degrees, and others with knowledge.

I’m sorry. If you follow my posts, you’ll see that I’m very argumentive and not always very courteous. But I did warn you when I asked for intelligent answers; in other words, all answers would be thoroughly scrutinized by me.

You are new here, in that you have not posted often. You are young, in that your profile states you are 21.

There is a certain expectation of amiability and charity here at CAF, even in the most sternly academic discussions. Theses are generally made up front at the beginning of the thread. It seems to me that wasn’t your intent, particularly our answers being “scrutinized”, given that as long as we all stick to the topic in a charitable manner, we all can participate. Guessing games are not usually posted in Liturgy and Sacraments.

However, I accept your apology.

 

[Brendan]

That’s how I’ve always thought of the Kiss of Peace.

That understanding is incorrect, both by logic ( we are supposed to forgive our brother BEFORE we offer our gifts, not AFTER)

and most importantly, because the Vatican says so.

Redemptionis Sacramentum

[71.] The practice of the Roman Rite is to be maintained according to which the peace is extended shortly before Holy Communion.** For according to the tradition of the Roman Rite, this practice does not have the connotation either of reconciliation or of a remission of sins**, but instead signifies peace, communion and charity before the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist. It is rather the Penitential Act to be carried out at the beginning of Mass (especially in its first form) which has the character of reconciliation among brothers and sisters.

The reconcillation between ourselves and those we have injured happens in the Penitential Rite, especially when we say the Confetior

“I confess to Almight God, and to you my brothers and sisters…”

So if you are interested in the the greatest sign of reconcilliation between each other, encourage your priests to use the Form 1 of the Penitential Rite (the Confetior). The other forms ( Lord Have Mercy) only implicitly address the sins we inflict on each other.

 

[Lucania]

My Parish does the sign of peace, but most people don’t go overboard by crossing aisles or leaving the pews. I prefer not to and normally just fold my hands together and nod toward someone and say “peace be with you.” There was a Priest at the Church closest to my home that would have everyone greet their pew neighbors and introduce themselves before the bells rung to start Mass! It is a large parish so that took a while, then add the sign of peace where everyone moved out of the pews and crossed aisles to shake hands, slap you on the back or whatever, well it just drove me crazy! I vote for no sign of peace .

 

[MTD]

There is a certain expectation of amiability and charity here at CAF, even in the most sternly academic discussions.

You’re right. I’ll try to be more amiable and charitable in the future.

Maria

 

[valient_Lucy]

That understanding is incorrect, both by logic ( we are supposed to forgive our brother BEFORE we offer our gifts, not AFTER)

and most importantly, because the Vatican says so.

Redemptionis Sacramentum

The reconcillation between ourselves and those we have injured happens in the Penitential Rite, especially when we say the Confetior

“I confess to Almight God, and to you my brothers and sisters…”

So if you are interested in the the greatest sign of reconcilliation between each other, encourage your priests to use the Form 1 of the Penitential Rite (the Confetior). The other forms ( Lord Have Mercy) only implicitly address the sins we inflict on each other.

I’ve seen Communion as a a time when we not only recieve Christ, but offer ourselves to Him. So I’ve seen the Sign of Peace as preceeding the time when I’ve offered my gifts (myself) to God in Holy Communion.

I love the Confeitor, which we do use at my parish, but the Confeitor is, imho, an incomplete sign of reconciliation between our brothers and sisters. The Confieitor admits that we have sinned, but it does not specify that we have sinned against each other. Also, in the Confietor, we seek forgiveness from God, but we do not seek forgiveness from the people we have harmed, nor are we given the opportunity to forgive those that we have harmed. It is different than the Act of Love, where we declare that we have forgiven those who have injured us, and we ask forgiveness from those whom we have injured.

 

[CRW]

Which is why I’m wondering why EWTN doesn’t do the Sign of Peace albeit without handshaking. I’ve been to a monastery (in the US, by the way) where the nuns simply turn toward each other with a slight bow and “Peace be with you.” The Sign of Peace can be done without handshaking, but for some reason (and that’s what I’m trying to get to the bottom of) EWTN and my parish have chosen to omit the sign altogether.

But it’s not similar. Holding hands during the Our Father is completely unfounded and unliturgical; it’s basically an import from Protestant services and has no basis whatever in Catholic liturgies. On the other hand, there is actually supposed to be a gesture used for the Sign of Peace, but as palmas85 mentioned, the gesture is to be based on local customs. My opinion is that the handshake is not a good choice because according to American custom the handshake is normally used for greeting or well-wishing. Simply turning to one another with a nod and the words “Peace be with you” would quite sufficient for the Sign of Peace in this country, and I guess I’m just wondering why it’s not done that way at EWTN.

Maria

I watch the EWTN daily when possible and IMHO they do not do it because it is not required. They perform the rubrics, as required, nothing more, nothing less. In addition, I think they have full knowledge that the Mass is being viewed my millions around the world and customs are different in each country. How many letters would they receive from “Hey what are you crazy Americans during to our Mass”.

 

[m134e5]

The Sign of Peace is optional. If I were a priest, I would not use it, because I do not think it is appropriate to turn our focus from Jesus who, at that point of the Mass, is on the altar to members of the congregation. That being said, it would be a shame to go to Mass for years and never meet the people who sit near you- take a moment to greet a few people after every Mass, if they have all left by the time you’re done praying, then greet them and come back to pray.

 

[Manfred]

Today EWTN carried the Ash Wednesday Mass from St Sabina’s in Rome, with Pope Benedict XVI as the celebrant. I stopped reading my newspaper just long enough to observe whether the Sign of Peace would be administered or not. It was. The Pope remained silent while the deacon said in Italian, “Offer the sign of peace to one other”. It was all quite low-key, with little footage of what the congregation was doing.

Manfred

 

[mdgspencer]

It is true that is is good that these things are done at mass. However, the best way to seek forgiveness is to go to the person involved and tell them you are sorry for doing wrong.
And actually now that I recall, Jesus said that if you realize someone has something against you, leave the altar and seek their forgiveness. (Though I wouldn’t think this means leaving the mass.)

I’ve seen Communion as a a time when we not only recieve Christ, but offer ourselves to Him. So I’ve seen the Sign of Peace as preceeding the time when I’ve offered my gifts (myself) to God in Holy Communion.

I love the Confeitor, which we do use at my parish, but the Confeitor is, imho, an incomplete sign of reconciliation between our brothers and sisters. The Confieitor admits that we have sinned, but it does not specify that we have sinned against each other. Also, in the Confietor, we seek forgiveness from God, but we do not seek forgiveness from the people we have harmed, nor are we given the opportunity to forgive those that we have harmed. It is different than the Act of Love, where we declare that we have forgiven those who have injured us, and we ask forgiveness from those whom we have injured.

 

[Brendan]

I’ve seen Communion as a a time when we not only recieve Christ, but offer ourselves to Him. So I’ve seen the Sign of Peace as preceeding the time when I’ve offered my gifts (myself) to God in Holy Communion.

The liturgically correct time to do so is during the Eucharistic Prayer. That is the time where the Priest offers the Unbloodied Lamb for our Salvation. It is also the time where we, as part of the Common Priesthood, over ourselves along with (but distinct from) the Sacrifice the priest offers.

I would recommend Pope Benedict’s “Spirit of the Liturgy” It describes very clearly what actions are being done in the liturgy and why.

 

[Manfred]

From Benedict XVI’s Sacramentum Caritatis:

The sign of peace

1. By its nature the Eucharist is the sacrament of peace. At Mass this dimension of the eucharistic mystery finds specific expression in the sign of peace. Certainly this sign has great value (cf. Jn 14:27). In our times, fraught with fear and conflict, this gesture has become particularly eloquent, as the Church has become increasingly conscious of her responsibility to pray insistently for the gift of peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family. Certainly there is an irrepressible desire for peace present in every heart. The Church gives voice to the hope for peace and reconciliation rising up from every man and woman of good will, directing it towards the one who “is our peace” (Eph 2:14) and who can bring peace to individuals and peoples when all human efforts fail. We can thus understand the emotion so often felt during the sign of peace at a liturgical celebration. Even so, during the Synod of Bishops there was discussion about the appropriateness of greater restraint in this gesture, which can be exaggerated and cause a certain distraction in the assembly just before the reception of Communion. It should be kept in mind that nothing is lost when the sign of peace is marked by a sobriety which preserves the proper spirit of the celebration, as, for example, when it is restricted to one’s immediate neighbours.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

In cold and flu season it is imprudent to shake hands with a lot of people, particularly those who are stuffing a recently used kleenex into their pockets just before this ritual begins.
.

Boy, do I know what you are talking about here. I made it through most of the winter without catching a bug till one day at Mass a lady with a cold and cough insisted on shaking my hand and those of 7 or 8 people around her. I felt awkward refusing and so I joined in and got a whopper of a cold. All the way around I would much prefer just a bow of the head and “Peace be with you.” It is really overdone and many cross aisles to shake the hands of those folks.

I read in my diocesan newspaper today where the Pope was mentioning making the Sign of Peace come at an earlier part of the Mass…I think before the presentation of the gifts…feeling that it is too distracting at a very solemn part of the Mass.

:heart:Blyss

 

[davy39]

As far as I’m concerned, they could not have it at all. I don’t mind exchanging with my wife, and a few others around us, but when it comes to being turned around like a corkscrew, or attacked by somebody from accross the aisle, forget it. It’s usually so noisy, that you can’t hear the Lamb of God when it is said. It’s something we could without.

 

[murehwajohn]

I am a catholic priest in Southern Africa. I have started private study of Greek New Testament. I am using “The Elements of New Testament Greek” by W. J. Wenham. I cannot go for schooling because I am a busy assistant priest. In our college for theology the college at that time did not offer the course. So I am begging if anyone may help me with the book by Wenham: Key to the Elements of New Testament Greek. It has the answers. PLEASE HELP ME. HELP ME SO THAT I CAN THEN UNDERSTAND THE WORD BETTER. I do not have online money or Visa Cash card, I am in Africa! If anyone can send me an old copy or scan it and send it in my email. I promise to be faithful. My email address is itayu2012@gmail.com