Why not accept that Jesus will speak to you audibly?

[Church_Militant]

Giver:

You have never even tried to hear what I have been saying, otherwise you would know that I have never contradicted scripture, and if you don’t want to listen to me, it is your loss not mine.

That is not true Robert and you know it. I have discussed many of your posts with you and confronted you as the NT says we are supposed to when a brother is taken in error. You have indeed offered interpretations of scripture that I have pointed out to you right here on this very forum (“in front of God and everybody”, as they say), yet you persist in attempting to lead Catholics (and even non-Catholics) astray with your teaching.

You’re right about it being my loss…but the Holy Spirit says that that loss is really very small, but you yourself and any who follow you might well be the greater loss.
Pax tecum,

P.S. Guys, I realize that some of you are getting badly frustrated with this man, but please don’t mock or be intentionally discompassionate with Robert.

(James 5:19 & 20) “19 My brethren, if any of you err from the truth, and one convert him: 20 He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.”

 

[Leon_Miguel]

Giver:

don’t call any man father,

How about “teacher” or “master” or if we include modern translations of these words “doctor” or “mister”?

 

[ChiFaithful]

I’m just going to add this. Giver, you should be proud of your belief that Jesus is talking to you. However, it’s flat-out ridiculous to extrapolate this belief into your question, “If you haven’t heard His voice, how do you know if your one of His?” I’ll tell you how: because I don’t need to put God to the test to know that he exists and is with me or any of us. It’s called Faith; you might want to look into that a little more. Because if your voice tells you otherwise, you might to recheck your “source.”

Thanks.

 

[tdandh26]

I thought Jesus said “Blessed are they who have not seen but believe.” I think Jesus is speaking of those who have faith in the teachings which have been passed down through the apostles. Although visions have occured for some special individuals, those who have received them suffer much. The gifts of the saints were not for themselves but for the spiritual benefit of other who did not believe.
Once the devil appeared as the Blessed Mother to St. Padre Pio and told him to cut down on some aspect of his prayer life ( I dont remember for certain exactly what it was) but Padre Pio replied the with “Say with me, Jesus I love you” at that the devil whailed and left him. Care must be given to visions as Satan is certainly capable of deceiving us with them as well.

 

[StCsDavid]

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

I didn’t see this addressed, but one has to read this scripture in context. Christ at this time was speaking with Jews. The other sheep that would hear his voice were the Gentiles.

You may be receiving private revelations. If so it is a grace and a very special gift. What gives me pause regarding the authenticity in your experience lies in the fact that all of the mystics whom I know of who have had these private revelations generally are not very public about their gift and are extraordinarily humble. What is more, Christ generally is speaking to them with a specific purpose in mind versus simply repreating scripture.

Can Jesus speak to us audibly? Sure, if He decides to do so. Has he done some with you? Given the limited evidence, I’m a little hesitant to acccept it.

 

[RobNY]

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

When you listen to someone’s voice doesn’t mean audibly hearing it. It means following it.

Although, it is true that we Catholics listen to Jesus’ voice in another sense.

Luke 10:16

16 Whoever listens to you listens to me.

Since the Catholic Church has apostolic succession, the same holds true. Whoever listens to the successors of the apostles listens to Jesus’ voice. It seems that you can either take this the first way, which means to follow Jesus, in which case your argument falls apart. Or you can understand it your way, in which case you must account for Lk 10:16.

 

[cheeto1]

Giver:

Why is it so hard to believe? Jesus said we would hear him. Just to let you know, I have had long talks face to face with two different Catholic Bishops and another bishop’s personal advisor. Also I have talked on the phone with two other Catholic bishops. They all asked what they could do to help me or told me to go and do what Jesus had for me to do.

When did this happen? It was only very recently that I asked you to go to the authorities and you said basically “why should I when so many are sinful?” What are their names and where are they from? What did Jesus ask you to do and what do you ask us to do?

Far be it from me not to listen to a genuine prophet of God.
But we, also, need to verify with the proper authorities. The
Church is there for us.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Giver the problem is not that no one believes God can not speak to us out loud.

It is that you keep contradicting the Bible.

And, you keep taking texts out of context including the two verses you started this thread with.

And, I already answered your misquoting of the John ten verses in the other thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=94224

On top of that, if you do not take correction from brothers in the Lord here on earth, why should anyone believe you are listening to the real Jesus?

In short, your mesage contradicts what the church teaches, you keep contradicting the scriptures, you rip verses out of context to read meaning into the text that is not there, you do not take correction from those who speak to your face so to speak. All this tells everyone here that you are not listening to the real Jesus because Jesus would be consistent with what he said before in both the old and new testaments.

Hebrews 1: 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son,

 

[mlchance]

Daniel Marsh:

Giver the problem is not that no one believes God can not speak to us out loud.

I have no problem believing Jesus Christ. It’s the modern Gnostics who claim to have special knowledge that I doubt.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[John-the-Seeker]

You believe Thomas because you have seen. More blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." “It is a faithless generation that demands signs and wonders.” I scoffed at the idea of God speaking to people. I was proved wrong. I have heard His voice. Not only audibly, but also silently in the heart and many other ways. These experiences contained no new truths for all that is necessary for salvation has been revealed. They revealed understandings and expalnations that I needed in my faith walk. They have led to love. Love of self, love of God and love of neighbor. Revelations of any kind should not lead to destructive HATE, a Haughty Attitude Toward Everyone but rather a Holy Abhorence Toward Evil. God Bless. May we, one day, all live and love in His Light and Love.

 

[wjp984]

It is funy since in my very secular world religions class where the profesor says all the controveries and stuff, he brought up people like you and even he, a secular as far as I know non believer was trying to use people like you to downplay Christianity and the problems it causes. You are nothing new. I forget the famous person he mentioned who practicd your beleifs but it was way before your time when there was a sect of Christainaty who thought you should not protect your fmaily or intervene. If your sister is getting raped let her get raped since it is God’s will and you are not supposed to use violence. It is people like you who give the secular people amunition against Christianity.

 

[Pug]

Giver:

Have you heard His voice? If you haven’t heard His voice, how do you know if your one of His?

I tend to think about this type of certainty as being due to the Spirit, not typically a recollection of an audible voice. For example from 1John4:

13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

 

[Giver]

Pug:

I tend to think about this type of certainty as being due to the Spirit, not typically a recollection of an audible voice. For example from 1John4:

13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

I used the description “audible” of how Jesus communicates with us mainly to see if many others have heard him that way. My wife has had Jesus touch her and has heard him many, many times, but never audibly. I have heard his voice audibly only twice, and both times he was scolding me. Both my wife and I hear him, and also the Holy Spirit, and when I hear Jesus it is in words, but other then the two times, not audible. The Holy Spirit just lets me know with out words unless it is a tongue with an interpretation.

 

[thistle]

Giver:

I used the description “audible” of how Jesus communicates with us mainly to see if many others have heard him that way. My wife has had Jesus touch her and has heard him many, many times, but never audibly. I have heard his voice audibly only twice, and both times he was scolding me. Both my wife and I hear him, and also the Holy Spirit, and when I hear Jesus it is in words, but other then the two times, not audible. The Holy Spirit just lets me know with out words unless it is a tongue with an interpretation.

Giver. Why won’t you respond to post #7???

 

[Paris_Blues]

Giver:

Have you heard His voice? If you haven’t heard His voice, how do you know if your one of His?

The Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Catholics, and all the Protestant churches believe they are the one true Church. Jesus is God, and he and the Holy Spirit will teach you, ask God what is right, trust no one else.

You have many people telling you that an individual can’t know if it is Jesus or not. \

You said you’ve heard His voice audibly to you. How do you KNOW it was His voice and not your imagination?

 

[Zooey]

mercygate:

Many saints and mystics have received supernatural locutions from Christ himself. Many of those saints and mystics were counseled by their spiritual directors and bishops not to speak of these experiences publicly until the spirits could be tested against the word of God. Those locutions that have been demonstrated to be authentic have been promulgated for the edification of the faithful but since they lie outside the core of public revelation, no Catholic is required to accept them de fide.

One of the signs of an inauthentic locution is the insistence by the person receiving it that it supercedes Scripture or the legitimate authority of the bishop.

When you say that all disciples of Jesus are to have no property, this clearly contradicts the evidence of Scripture. Yes, many were called to “sell all they had and give it to the poor” but others, like the Bethany family and Joseph of Arimathea, were called to a different discipleship and used their material substance to support the apostolic effort, as did the women who followed Jesus and later those who aided the apostles. St. Francis of Assisi was called to perfect poverty, and thousands of men and women have followed him. But not all are called to the evangelical counsel of total poverty.

 

[Giver]

thistle:

Well Giver what is he telling you about the question you refuse to answer. Whenever you get stuck on something you leave the thread and start another one.

Despite repeated requests to Giver to address my point he hasn’t so if everyone will forgive me I will repeat it again and hope that Giver will comment.

Following a longer discussion Giver indicated he would never do anyone any harm under any circumstances because that’s not what Jesus teaches.
I asked him if he would stand idly by and not do anything and let his family be attacked and murdered. This was his reply:

QUOTE
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Jesus said (John 14:21) “anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”

The will of the Father in Heaven is to love our enemies, and I would do nothing that would displease Him. I trust God, if He didn’t want my family to die, they wouldn’t die, and if they were to die they wood, no matter what I tried to do. What most everyone can’t seem to understand is: (Matthew 6:9) “Our father in heaven, may your name be holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.”
UNQUOTE

My comment and question to him was this:

That’s really sad that you would standly idly by and not lift a finger to stop your family being murdered especially when Jesus said in John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.
The original greek words “for one’s friends” mean for “those whom one loves”. Are saying you don’t love your family enough to be willing to die trying to protect them? Are you saying you will not do what Jesus expects us to do in dying, if necessary, to protect loved ones?

So Giver, are you saying Jesus lied when he told us about laying down our lives for our loved ones or is this a different Jesus from the one you are listening to??

I haven’t answered you, because no matter what I say you can’t comprehend what I say. You come back with nonsense remarks. You say things like: because I would not use force to defend my family that I am showing a lack of love for them. You can’t see that I love God more than everything. To love God you need to hear his Word and live it.

(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”

(Matthew 13:14-15) “So in their case this prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled: You will listen and listen again, but not understand, see and see again, but not perceive. For the heart of this nation has grown coarse, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have shut their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and be converted and be healed by me.”

 

[thistle]

Giver:

I haven’t answered you, because no matter what I say you can’t comprehend what I say. You come back with nonsense remarks. You say things like: because I would not use force to defend my family that I am showing a lack of love for them. You can’t see that I love God more than everything. To love God you need to hear his Word and live it.

(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”

(Matthew 13:14-15) “So in their case this prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled: You will listen and listen again, but not understand, see and see again, but not perceive. For the heart of this nation has grown coarse, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have shut their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and be converted and be healed by me.”

So you mean everyone is too stupid to understand what you are saying?? Is that it??
You still have not answered because you are a fraud and do not have answer!! You are contradicting what Jesus said.

 

[Giver]

Paris Blues:

You said you’ve heard His voice audibly to you. How do you KNOW it was His voice and not your imagination?

Well, I just don’t have that good of an imagination. I will tell you this though, after Jesus audibly spoke to me the first time, I had something happened to me that only could have come from God. Whenever I would start to think of something negative about another person, I would be flooded with positive thoughts about that person. In this way Jesus let me know he was teaching me.

 

[montanaman]

This is turning into one of those situations where time and experience are the only ways to see the truth. If Giver truly believes inaction is a virtue, and letting people suffer when you can do something is God’s will, let him get the answer straight from God in the next life. If he really thinks that he’s getting personal messages from Jesus that contradict scripture, then by all means, who are we to interfere? He has chosen. He’ll have to live with his decision.