Why not accept that Jesus will speak to you audibly?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Giver
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montanaman:
This is turning into one of those situations where time and experience are the only ways to see the truth. If Giver truly believes inaction is a virtue, and letting people suffer when you can do something is God’s will, let him get the answer straight from God in the next life. If he really thinks that he’s getting personal messages from Jesus that contradict scripture, then by all means, who are we to interfere? He has chosen. He’ll have to live with his decision.
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I dare you to ask Jesus if a Christian has any right to harm another person for any reason what so ever.

He has already to me we are not to hurt (harm) anyone for any reason. Jesus also told us that in Scripture, but you all choose not to believe what he said in scripture.
 
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Giver:
Well, I just don’t have that good of an imagination. I will tell you this though, after Jesus audibly spoke to me the first time, I had something happened to me that only could have come from God. Whenever I would start to think of something negative about another person, I would be flooded with positive thoughts about that person. In this way Jesus let me know he was teaching me.
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Do you remember what the words were?
 
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Giver:
I dare you to ask Jesus if a Christian has any right to harm another person for any reason what so ever.

He has already to me we are not to hurt (harm) anyone for any reason. Jesus also told us that in Scripture, but you all choose not to believe what he said in scripture.
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I already know what Jesus would say–respect life. His Church tells us that in some limited cases it’s permissable to use force to protect innocent life.

If you would stand by while your family was harmed, humming hymns and thanking Jesus for your enlightenment, I’d say you’re a monster.
 
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Giver:
How could I ever forget?
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What do you mean how could you ever forget? You obviously remembered otherwise you wouldn’t be saying that.
 
Giver said:
(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
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So, I’m wondering, has He spoken to you in an audible voice?
 
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montanaman:
I already know what Jesus would say–respect life. His Church tells us that in some limited cases it’s permissable to use force to protect innocent life.

If you would stand by while your family was harmed, humming hymns and thanking Jesus for your enlightenment, I’d say you’re a monster.
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The Churches teaching is wrong, and scripture proves that.
 
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Giver:
The Churches teaching is wrong, and scripture proves that.
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Thank you. Now I know with certitude that your claims can be safely dismissed as heresy.
 
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Giver:
Send me an e-mail or private message and I’ll repeat what he told me.
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Giver, I’m still wondering how you take the idea that, “listening” to Christ means obeying him, or those he has sent. As he says to his apostles in Luke 10:
16 Whoever listens to you listens to me.
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In this case, the sheep of Jesus’ flock are not listening literally to Jesus’ audible voice, but are listening to Jesus’ message as communicated through his officially selected apostles.

Note the parallelism in the second part of the verse:
Whoever rejects you rejects me.
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By rejecting the apostles of Jesus, they reject Jesus, even though they did not physically or sensibly encounter Jesus, but rather his representative. The obvious parallel is that we may, as per the first part of the verse, “listen” to Jesus, even while not audibly hearing Jesus, by listening to his duly appointed representatives.
 
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Giver:
I dare you to ask Jesus if a Christian has any right to harm another person for any reason what so ever.

He has already to me we are not to hurt (harm) anyone for any reason. Jesus also told us that in Scripture, but you all choose not to believe what he said in scripture.
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Luke 22:38
The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied.

Exodus 22:2
“If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;”
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Proverbs 25:26
“Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked.”
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Contrast in extreme terms. Contrast in Hebrew is often stated in extreme terms for the sake of emphasis. The words of Malachi 1:2-3, “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated,” illustrate this feature of Hebrew speech. A New Testament example is the Lord’s solemn affirmation, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26). What Jesus means of course, is that his disciples must give all other objects of love second place in relation to him–a meaning brought out in the parallel passage in Matthew 10:37, “He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” Luke’s version preserves the Hebraic style, Matthew’s the Greek.
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bible-researcher.com/hebraisms.html

Exodus 20:12
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

1 Timothy 5:8
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

John 2:15
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
 
Genesis 19:8c “they have come under the protection of my roof.”

Numbers 32:17
But we are ready to arm ourselves and go ahead of the Israelites until we have brought them to their place. Meanwhile our women and children will live in fortified cities, for protection from the inhabitants of the land.

Esther 8:11
The king’s edict granted the Jews in every city the right to assemble and protect themselves; to destroy, kill and annihilate any armed force of any nationality or province that might attack them and their women and children; and to plunder the property of their enemies.

Esther 9:16
Meanwhile, the remainder of the Jews who were in the king’s provinces also assembled to protect themselves and get relief from their enemies. They killed seventy-five thousand of them but did not lay their hands on the plunder.

1 Corinthians 13:7
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
 
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Giver:
I haven’t answered you, because no matter what I say you can’t comprehend what I say. You come back with nonsense remarks.
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–Actually, we do comprehend what you say, and no one has returned nonsense remarks to you.

–It could be that you do not state things well, or that you do not comprehend what is being told to you.

–Personally, I think that you get your points across well enough to be understood by everyone.

–I also think that you misunderstand many of our responses to you. We do not disagree with everything that you say. In some cases you make some good points but you spoil what you’re saying by throwing in a grotesque error.

An example would be how you point out that we should live in peace with all men and that we should love God and our fellow man. This is true and everybody agrees with this. You spoil your point, however, by injecting an untruth saying that the Church teaches in error on the subject and that no one has a right to self defense. These untruths are ridiculous and are not from God.
 
Robert,

You and I exchanged some PM’s a few months ago. During the course of our discussion I prayed many times for guidance and understanding. I explained to you that the Lord made it clear to me that you were not led to these forums to “give a word.” It was revealed to me that you were led to these forums to listen and learn from Spirit filled Catholics so that you would come home to the Church and thus receive the sacraments, especially the Eucharist which is the body and blood of Christ.

Now, I did as you have asked us to do…I prayed and asked Jesus directly about you and what you have been saying. The Lord did not tell me what you are claiming. The Lord confirmed to me all of the teachings on self defense, call no man father, the ministerial priesthood, and the consecration of the Eucharist as it has been presented to you on these forums.

Now I want to know what you think about this. Did Jesus tell me the truth or did He tell you the truth? Is there more than one truth? Would Jesus lead us in separate directions? Does Jesus want Christians to have diverse doctrines?

How do you understand the 17th Chapter of John’s gospel? How do we achieve unity, especially the kind of unity described by Jesus in John 17? If everyone else is wrong and you are right, then what happened to the unity that Jesus wants for us? How do we get that unity?

Please give all of this some careful thought and please provide a well thought out response.

I am thanking you in advance and eagerly await your reply.

Pax
 
Robert,

Is it possible that you are wrong on the ministerial priesthood, call no man father, and you personally consecrating the bread and wine and thus confecting the Eucharist?

If not, why not?
 
Giver said:
(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
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Here’s another thing that’s wrong with personal interpretation of Sacred Scripture. Jesus was speaking to Jews, and was referring to the Gentiles that would later come to know Him. This has been that interpretation of Scripture for millenia.
 
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