Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

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aidanbradypop

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I had a conversation the other day on this topic so I thought I would present it to the forum. A Protestant friend of mine has prayer groups where they pray for others and ask for prayers in return.

I presented the question …If we can ask one another to pray for us, why can’t we ask the Mother of God and the Saints to do the same?

Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.

Your thoughts?
 
Does your friend ever talk about Grandma in Heaven? I’m not trying to be snarky, it’s just odd that lots of folks think we’re a bit off our rocker for praying to Mary and the saints for intercession but think nothing of telling us that Grandma is looking down from Heaven looking after the family.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.
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I’d respond that I guess Jesus was a total and complete heretic when he flat-out talked to Elijah and Moses.

Not only that, but it’s not against scripture at all; not only is your friend ignoring stuff like a hefty chunk of Revelations, but the actual, complete Bible contains Maccabees, in which praying for the dead is shown (as all of the Jews already knew it was) as normal. It’s not our fault that their Protestant forebears chose to hack the Bible apart like a roast before dinner.

I would ask her: If Jesus, whom we know was a good and faithful Jew, did not like the practice of praying to the dead, why in the world didn’t he EVER mention something about it?
 
aidanbradypop said:
lol that’s why I asked 😛
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I have been told by some non Catholics that everyone is asleep in Jesus until Jesus comes again
and there are no saints in heaven. If you have that premise then it wouldn’t make any sense.

Good question 🙂 LOL 🙂
 
Hoo(name removed by moderator)mie said:
Does your friend ever talk about Grandma in Heaven? I’m not trying to be snarky, it’s just odd that lots of folks think we’re a bit off our rocker for praying to Mary and the saints for intercession but think nothing of telling us that Grandma is looking down from Heaven looking after the family.
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I have used that before! lol They say that they are not praying the grandma but we are praying to Mary. It is a circle. 😦
Lochias said:
I’d respond that I guess Jesus was a total and complete heretic when he flat-out talked to Elijah and Moses.

Not only that, but it’s not against scripture at all; not only is your friend ignoring stuff like a hefty chunk of Revelations, but the actual, complete Bible contains Maccabees, in which praying for the dead is shown (as all of the Jews already knew it was) as normal. It’s not our fault that their Protestant forebears chose to hack the Bible apart like a roast before dinner.

I would ask her: If Jesus, whom we know was a good and faithful Jew, did not like the practice of praying to the dead, why in the world didn’t he EVER mention something about it?
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Very, very true. A Protestant once said that if Christ did not tell us to pray to the Saints, then we should not. 🤷 Once again…a circle conversation lol
 
MaryT777 said:
I have been told by some non Catholics that everyone is asleep in Jesus until Jesus comes again
and there are no saints in heaven. If you have that premise then it wouldn’t make any sense.

Good question 🙂 LOL 🙂
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Yes that is one I have heard as well. You could then refer them to Moses talking with Christ and ask them who are the Elders?
 
Praying = talking. Pray to Mary = talk to Mary. But I do understand your frustration. At the Easter Vigil on Saturday, at which I was received into the Church, my sister (who is Seventh Day Adventist) was fully participating in the prayers, etc. until the Litany of the Saints, at which time she clinched her hands together and closed her mind completely, wouldn’t even stand or kneel for any other prayers. I was a bit dismayed but not really surprised. She couldn’t get out of that church fast enough and into her car to go home. GAH.
 
I do ask Mary and the Saints to pray for me. Also my dad and mom and dearly departed wife.
 
Much of this has to do with a western understanding of death.
 
I ask for as many prayers as possible from as many people (alive and FULLY alive) as possible. I believe their belief is that Prayer = Worship… Now I do think you can Worship God in prayer and talk to him in Prayer. It just depends on how you are Praying at that given moment in time.

Just my opinion

DLG
 
I believe their belief is that Prayer = Worship…
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I can attest to that (I’m still formally Protestant). The way I have always understood it is that prayer is like a phone line that leads directly to God, and God is the only one answering that line. Worship and praise are an essential part of Protestant prayer, which is why there is a lot of confusion about praying to saints and Mary. That is a part I myself, too, am still trying to understand. 🙂
 
aidanbradypop said:
I I presented the question …If we can ask one another to pray for us, why can’t we ask the Mother of God and the Saints to do the same?

Her reply was that they are dead and do not pray for us and asking them to do so goes against Scripture.

Your thoughts?
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Mine is simply that we have scriptural warrant for asking one another to pray for us, but lack that example in scripture for asking the same of those who have died. The Anglican church to which I belong has a Homily on Prayer that addresses the issue:

Why then doe wee pray one for another in this life, some man perchance will heere demaund? Forsooth we are willed so to doe, by the expresse commandement both of Christ and his disciples, to declare therein aswell the faith that wee haue in Christ towardes GOD, as also the mutuall charitie that wee beare one towards another, in that pitie our brothers case, and make our humble petition to GOD for him. But that we should pray vnto Saints, neither haue we any commandement in all the Scripture, nor yet example which wee may safely follow. So that being done without authority of Gods word, it lacketh the ground of faith, & therefore cannot be acceptable before GOD (Hebrews 11.6). For whatsoeuer is not of faith, is sin (Romans 14.23). anglicanlibrary.org/homilies/bk2hom07.htm
 
I know for sure when I ask people to pray for me, they hear me…I hear them say “I will pray for you” or “I will hold you in the Light”…I don’t know that those in heaven hear my prayers necessarily…I do know God hears me…not only does He hear me…but the Spirit who resides in me prays for me when I have no idea how to pray…why go to someone else in heaven to pray for me…when God is ready and willing to listen to me without anyone in heaven carrying prayers to Him…He already knows the needs I have even when I do not.

I believe we ARE surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses that “cheer us on”…but they’d “cheer us on” whether we ask them to pray for us or not…and they’d point me to the Father to bring my petitions directly to the Throne of Grace…for He is more than willing to hear my prayers.

I don’t believe that God “changes His mind” when I pray for a situation to be different…but I do believe He changes me to accept His will for all things. When trials assail me, I learn to trust in Him…and I trust He already knows my needs better than I do any ways.

Asking people to pray for me is great…but no answer will be given to their prayers unless they ask according to the will of God…so it all boils down to God’s Will and accepting all things in joy…joy is not 'happiness"…joy is a quality we receive from the Spirit of God who indwells us…it is Mystery the ways of God…I don’t need to “hedge my bet” by asking a departed saint for their prayers…I have them already as they are the one’s “cheering me on” to the “finish line” already.
 
I see nothing wrong with asking Mary, The Saints & Angels to interceed on my behalf. If what we believe is true and they do pray for us, Praise be to God. If they dont hear our prayers, God still does, Praise be to God. We ask that our friends pray for us. Why not ask those that died before us to help us out? 🙂
 
kimg901 said:
I see nothing wrong with asking Mary, The Saints & Angels to interceed on my behalf. If what we believe is true and they do pray for us, Praise be to God. If they dont hear our prayers, God still does, Praise be to God. We ask that our friends pray for us. Why not ask those that died before us to help us out? 🙂
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You state a wonderful point. If they do not hear us, God still does.
 
From Revelation 5:8 we see the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.
 
aidanbradypop said:
From Revelation 5:8 we see the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.
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👍
 
“Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9 (A.D. 350).

Praying to the saints was practiced from the earliest moments of Christianity.

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