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Chris-WA
Guest
Where do LDS get the idea that children under 8 years of age are not to be baptized? What is the biblical support for this?
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justingreener
Guest
Where is the biblical support to baptize infants?
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majick275
Guest
The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, The Acts of the Apostles, Pauls letters to the Corinthians, Colossians and the Romans.
Doesn’t the LDS church perform vicarious baptisms for the dead for people who died in childhood? (I really don’t know the answer to this so I need info on this)
Doesn’t the LDS church perform vicarious baptisms for the dead for people who died in childhood? (I really don’t know the answer to this so I need info on this)
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Chris-WA
Guest
Why would you ask that question? What would restrict us from baptizing children?
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justingreener
Guest
Ypu gave a bunch of books in the bible could ya be a little specific like a chapter and verse and don’t change the subject
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justingreener
Guest
Nothing except the fact that it wrong I suppose. Oh wait that fact it is wrong or right doesn’t effect the “Universal Chuch”
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tkdnick
Guest
I think your question would be more suited to the Apologetics forum. Chris had a specific question for LDS members about why they don’t baptize children under 8. This question takes us off that topic. I shall go start a thread in Apologetics to begin discussion of your question.
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justingreener
Guest
Good luck with that cause there is no biblical chapter and verse! In regard to the mormon thing I don’t know I m not mormon!
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majick275
Guest
Well I think that we get confused when we ignore the context of scripture. If you read those books in their entirety then I think the message becomes clear. I will risk your ignoring that advice though and list some specifics that I find to be informative on this subject. (I still would hope that you would read the whole books though before jumping to conclusions)
Acts 2:38,39
Acts 16:15,3
Acts 22:16
1Pet 3:21
John 3:5
Matt 19:14
Luke 18:15,16
Coll 2:11,12
Rom 6:3
1 Cor 1:16
Of course we Catholics also value sacred tradition on this from Origen(244 A.D.), Agustine (408 a.D.) and the council of Carthage (253 A.D.)
I don’t think that it’s changing the subject at all to ask about LDS baptizing deceased children vicariously since the topic of this thread is “Why not baptize children?” and this is an LDS sub-forum for comparing and contrasting beliefs.
So I ask again, Does the LDS church perform vicarious baptisms for the dead for people who died in childhood?
Acts 2:38,39
Acts 16:15,3
Acts 22:16
1Pet 3:21
John 3:5
Matt 19:14
Luke 18:15,16
Coll 2:11,12
Rom 6:3
1 Cor 1:16
Of course we Catholics also value sacred tradition on this from Origen(244 A.D.), Agustine (408 a.D.) and the council of Carthage (253 A.D.)
I don’t think that it’s changing the subject at all to ask about LDS baptizing deceased children vicariously since the topic of this thread is “Why not baptize children?” and this is an LDS sub-forum for comparing and contrasting beliefs.
So I ask again, Does the LDS church perform vicarious baptisms for the dead for people who died in childhood?
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tkdnick
Guest
Here’s the link to the thread I just started in the Sacred Scripture section of the Apologetics forum…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=80003
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=80003
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justingreener
Guest
Your first scripture is the only one that seems to apply to this discussion. The others either talk about adult baptism and some don’t talk about baptism at all. But Acts 2:38,39 talks about child baptism but that seems to support the mormon position not the Catholic position. When kids are 8 they seem to fit title children not infants. As far as you having your traditions you can do that but so can the mormons. So before you start asking for biblical support to peoples beliefs you should look at your beliefs first.
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majick275
Guest
Yet the exact word used in the Luke reference is the greek word for infant. Here is where we get into the need to read the whole book. If you go to tkdnick’s link you will see a good exegesis of why all of these scriptures are dead on.
what did I ask biblical support for? I asked for an answer to my question on LDS baptisms for the dead.
what did I ask biblical support for? I asked for an answer to my question on LDS baptisms for the dead.
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tkdnick
Guest
WOW!!! I get my interpretations labeled as “good exegesis”??? That is AWESOME! Thank you majick!!!
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flameburns623
Guest
The Biblical justification for baptism of infants is not clear. Some liken it to Old Testament circumcision, from which one can build the strongest case for infant baptism IMHO. There are no clear examples of infants being baptised, though in some cases whole households were baptised. It is purely speculative whether those households included infants. The reference to Luke does not mention baptism, and so it is unclear in what way infants are to ‘come to Christ’. There is also debate about the exact meaning of the Greek–it can mean ‘toddling’ infants, infants just learning to walk, which would make sense within the context–the infants ‘came’ to Christ, they were not ‘brought’ to Him in their mother’s arms.
To the best of my knowledge, Mormns do not perform vicarious baptisms for children who died prior to the age of accuntability. Mormons base their ban on infant baptism upon the following texts:
*Moroni 8:11 & 12
*11 And their little children need no repentance, neither **baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling **the commandments unto the remission of sins. **12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the **foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and **also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many *little children have died without baptism!
D & C 68: 25-27
25* And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organised. And their children shall be baptised for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.*
See also D&C 18: 42, 20:71, 29:47.
Hope this helps. *
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tkdnick
Guest
I’m gonna have to take a look through some of these. I’m going to be teaching a class on Sunday about baptism, with infant baptism being 1 subject. I’ve only got a couple of these though.
With regards to your ECF quotes, I found 1 earlier - Irenaeus in 189.
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majick275
Guest
I’m very curious as to the nephite record specifying 8 as the age of baptism. Is the symbolic of 8 days for circumcision? If it’s a maturity issue I would think that would vary according to society. In some societies throughout history children were thought to be accountable for the actions at a younger age, in others it was older. Jewish custom usually indicates age 13. (bar/bat mitzvah) if this analagous to “confirmation”. (making an informed choice to be a member) if it’s the parents bringing up a child “in the covenant” then 8 day old circumcision seems the better example. I find this doctrine (LDS) hard to believe. A child is born into the world completely free of sin and their 8th birthday their suddenly headed for hell if they don’t get baptized. I just don’t see that as true.
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majick275
Guest
Remeber Ceasar thou art mortal. The cheers are of a throng are easily obtained but honor is more elusive.
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tkdnick
Guest
Yes, thank you for keeping me humble.Remeber Ceasar thou art mortal. The cheers are of a throng are easily obtained but honor is more elusive.
Nice to know, though, that what I’m saying is correct.
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majick275
Guest
I think romans chapter 5 does a good job of teaching original sin and the need to baptize all.
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Chris-WA
Guest
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