Why not condoms?

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Read this article right here.

orthodoxytoday.org/articles/AnscombeChastity.shtml

If condoms are ok why not mutual masturbation or buggery? And if mutual masturbation and buggery are ok it is hard to see any real convincing reason for condemning homosexual acts. Also, if you can turn intercourse into something other than the reproductive kind of act it is hard to see why it should be restricted to people bound together in a union whose fundamental purpose is the raising of children. Then, if marriage is not about raising children there is really no reason why is should be restricted to people of the opposite sex either. You see, once you approve contraception the whole tapestry of Christian sexual ethics comes unravelled.
Another fallacious slippery slope argument!
The only thing fallacious in these two posts is the second post.

In fact, we can see that the last sentence of KostyaJMJ’s post has been proven completely and utterly true in the last approximately 80 years since Anglicans first stated contraception was tolerable. Prior to that, contraceptives were even illegal in many states in the USA.

One cannot be authentically Catholic and support any form of artificial contraception.
 
what’s wrong with using a barrier method such as condoms to prevent pregnancy?
Gen 2:24 – That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.

When barriers (either physical or chemical) are in place, the two cannot become one body. They remain two bodies separated by a barrier.
 
The only thing fallacious in these two posts is the second post
:rolleyes:
In fact, we can see that the last sentence of KostyaJMJ’s post has been proven completely and utterly true in the last approximately 80 years since Anglicans first stated contraception was tolerable. Prior to that, contraceptives were even illegal in many states in the USA.
One cannot be authentically Catholic and support any form of artificial contraception.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
 
Hi everyone

I’m trying to get my head around some of the Catholic doctrines which I’ve not had to deal with before in my Protestant life.

I can totally get on board with the no abortions and no birth control that prevents implantation (e.g. pill or IUD) because that would essentially be depriving a soul of life. I certainly would not ever want to have to answer to God about why I thought I had a right to kill another person who was helpless and in my care - whether I knew it or not.

But since the Catholic church has declared that life begins at conception (can’t remember where I read that, but please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), what’s wrong with using a barrier method such as condoms to prevent pregnancy? How is that any different from just avoiding a fertile time of the month with NFP? I figure if God wants to give someone a child, its going to be just as easy for Him to cause a couple to conceive at a non-fertile time as it is to make a teeny, tiny hole in a condom (or cause it to fail in one of the other myriad of ways it can).

I would be really grateful of some learned advice to help me understand this teaching more.
Condoms are a symbol that you don’t accept Gods plan for us in marriage. God’s love is a procreative love, i.e. it creates. Our love, at it’s most God like (the wedding embrasse) should follow this standard. How do you expect that you can be fully open to God, if you can’t even be fully open to your spouse? This doesn’t even address the issues with regard to condoms enabling horrific sexual abuses, such as the kind we have seen building since the start of the sexual revolution.

Additionally, I will point out to you that this wasn’t just a Catholic teaching not all to long ago. Protistants (as well as the leaders of the reformation) uniformly rejected contraception as well. I will direct your attention to the attached pdf written by a Lutheran.
 
Animals don’t have control over their sexual desires. If you want to debate animal sex, start a new thread. This one is about the morality of condoms.

As I stated before, the issue with condoms is more to do with the way a person views sex since that person feels they need to use condoms.
 
Well that’s not the case. What about HIV serodivergent couples?
I would argue that it irrisponcible to have sexual relations when you are infected with a terminal disease which is transmitted sexually. Regardless of the circomstances.
 
I would argue that it irrisponcible to have sexual relations when you are infected with a terminal disease which is transmitted sexually. Regardless of the circomstances.
That’s not your decision to make. And it ignores the known facts.
 
That’s not your decision to make. And it ignores the known facts.
The known facts? That AIDS is terminal? That is is spread by sex? That condoms fail pretty frequently actually? The most accurate thing you said in your post is that it’s not my decision to make, thankfully it’s not. Because I don’t have AIDS.
 
The known facts? That AIDS is terminal? That is is spread by sex? That condoms fail pretty frequently actually? The most accurate thing you said in your post is that it’s not my decision to make, thankfully it’s not. Because I don’t have AIDS.
Do not let him bait you not lure you off the topic. Best to ignore hit-and-flee posters.
 
Please keep the dialogue on topic and respectful of each other.

Thank you

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
The known facts? That AIDS is terminal? That is is spread by sex? That condoms fail pretty frequently actually? The most accurate thing you said in your post is that it’s not my decision to make, thankfully it’s not. Because I don’t have AIDS.
He was talking about HIV infection, not AIDS specifically which is a syndrome associated with later stages of HIV infection. Also, “terminal” refers to a phase of a disease, not the disease itself. HIV infection is a chronic infection. AIDS is an advanced phase of the disease. “Terminal” is the phase of AIDS (or any other disease) when death is imminent. Some people with HIV will go on to die of other causes than their infection. Also, AIDS is a blood-borne pathogen that is transmitted by the exchange of or contamination with body fluids. Sex is perhaps the most common means of transmission, but not the only one. Google Dr. Lucille Teasdale.

But, semantics aside, I agree with you that condoms are not an a completely effective means of preventing HIV infection.

The failure rate of condoms is fairly known and relatively constant. It is safe to assume that with millions of daily acts of coitus with condoms, a finite number will result in condom failure, and a finite proportion of that number of that number will result in HIV infection, and a finite number of HIV-infected people will die of it.

As a result, by “promoting” condom use, you are actually condemning a fairly predictable number of people to death, should they follow your advice. Condoms are no better than a roulette game although the odds are slightly better than one in six.

It is the reason the Church could never promote condom use to fight HIV. She cannot promote an act that will lead to certain death for some who follow her advice. She can only promote what is known to be virtually 100% effective, abstinence. We know compliance with that is a pipe dream, but the choice then becomes the choice of the individual. Responsible behaviour starts at home.

Condoms may make some sense as a epidemiological means of reducing the overall infection rate. However the Church is in the business of counseling individuals in what is known Truth and on behaviours that lead to salvation, not in the business of weighing relative outcomes.

But, big caveat here… we have to include cultural factors into the equation. In some cultures males are rather dominant. If a non-infected wife is, for all intents and purposes forced to have coitus with her infected husband, would she be sinning in insisting, and perhaps convincing him, to don a condom prior to violating her? Or that in the heat of the moment she manages to slip one on him without him noticing in the heat of passion?

In an area where economic conditions are so harsh that women feel compelled to turn to prostitution to survive, should they insist their johns use condoms? Common sense says yes as it is the only real weapon they have to hopefully retard their infection with HIV, even though they are so ineffective that eventually most prostitutes in their area will become infected.

Unfortunately the world is not such a neat place where everything goes as it should. Sometimes plain common sense must prevail over a theological truth that is so far from the harsh reality of very miserable lives that it is almost irrelevant.

I think in such a circumstance it becomes a legitimate act of self-defense.
 
I have a question:

I have a friend who is already on the menopausal stage. She told me that their mating with her husband, she would require his husband to wear condom because she feels it messy.

Is it a sin despite the fact that she is menopaused?
 
I have a question:

I have a friend who is already on the menopausal stage. She told me that their mating with her husband, she would require his husband to wear condom because she feels it messy.

Is it a sin despite the fact that she is menopaused?
Yes.
 
Hi everyone

I’m trying to get my head around some of the Catholic doctrines which I’ve not had to deal with before in my Protestant life.

I can totally get on board with the no abortions and no birth control that prevents implantation (e.g. pill or IUD) because that would essentially be depriving a soul of life. I certainly would not ever want to have to answer to God about why I thought I had a right to kill another person who was helpless and in my care - whether I knew it or not.

But since the Catholic church has declared that life begins at conception (can’t remember where I read that, but please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), what’s wrong with using a barrier method such as condoms to prevent pregnancy? How is that any different from just avoiding a fertile time of the month with NFP? I figure if God wants to give someone a child, its going to be just as easy for Him to cause a couple to conceive at a non-fertile time as it is to make a teeny, tiny hole in a condom (or cause it to fail in one of the other myriad of ways it can).

I would be really grateful of some learned advice to help me understand this teaching more.
Here’s a good article that explains the Jewish roots of traditional Catholic teaching. It even explains your next question about the “m” word.

ccli.org/nfp/morality/bible.php

It’s a bit of a read, but well worth the 10 minutes it’ll take.
 
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