Why not distributism?

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The Holy Church is the one earthly institution we owe our allegiance to. If the “Vatican” is destroyed by a Meteor tonight, I will mourn and rebuild the seat of The Holy Church (and arm-wrestle his Holiness for where to put it ;)).

Humanitarianism is not a Governmental entity, and government is the current “holder” of our “Terms” defining “Society” [loosely paraphrased: TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]. Society (due to Human Nature and Physics) will always need to be defended by the threat of violence between the “peacefully” contained parties therein [loosely paraphrased: TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]. Humanitarianism is too wet a paper bag to hold any of the trappings of Society, and can only survive under another form of government (self-rule) until the Second Coming.
Holy Mother Church is governed by the great nation of the Vatican.

Humanitarianism may not be a government entity, but it surely is the key construct by which government ought to govern. Capitalism ought to step aside if it cannot incorporate humanitarian values.
 
Holy Mother Church is governed by the great nation of the Vatican.

Humanitarianism may not be a government entity, but it surely is the key construct by which government ought to govern. Capitalism ought to step aside if it cannot incorporate humanitarian values.
What makes you think a government can practice humanitarianism while a capitalistic person or entity can’t?
 
What makes you think a government can practice humanitarianism while a capitalistic person or entity can’t?
If the great nation of the Vatican can practice humanitarianism, why not all other nations and the people in which they govern?
 
Humanitarianism may not be a government entity, but it surely is the key construct by which government ought to govern. Capitalism ought to step aside if it cannot incorporate humanitarian values.
Human Nature has not changed since it’s inception and will not in any imagined multiple off your lifetime, neither will Physics (even if our understanding of it does).

DESPITE DIVINE PROVIDENCE YOU ARE STILL PERMANANTLY AT ODDS WITH YOUR ENVIRONMENT AND TIME.

(UNTIL THE LORD SNATCHES YOU OFF OF IT) YOU ARE STUCK ON A PLANET!!! THE LORD HAS DIVIDED YOUR DAY TO LIGHT AND DARK, AND IF PERCHANCE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SLEEP, YOU WILL WAKE TO [AT LEAST] THE THREAT OF HAVING TO DEFEND YOURSELF, THE PROCEEDS OF THE DAY’S FORAGE AND HUNT, A DESIRED MATE, AND RESULTANT OFFSPRING.

If you have built, provided for, and surrounded yourself by a Society that has afforded you the luxury to play this game again tomorrow then you get to go play Humanitarianism today. [loosely paraphrased, TERMS, J.M.Thomas R., 2012]

JESUS did the loaves and the fishes miracle by multiplying what was given unto him, and the remainder was gathered and not wasted. There is a lesson there. Those following THAT example can provide for the many. They can’t if you regulate how many loaves and fishes they can have on hand to do it. NOR SHOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO REGULATE WHICH MULTITUDE THEY CHOOSE TO FEED.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, more than weakness and stupidity - by sheer terms of opportunity.
 
Human Nature has not changed since it’s inception and will not in any imagined multiple off your lifetime, neither will Physics (even if our understanding of it does).

DESPITE DIVINE PROVIDENCE YOU ARE STILL PERMANANTLY AT ODDS WITH YOUR ENVIRONMENT AND TIME.

(UNTIL THE LORD SNATCHES YOU OFF OF IT) YOU ARE STUCK ON A PLANET!!! THE LORD HAS DIVIDED YOUR DAY TO LIGHT AND DARK, AND IF PERCHANCE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SLEEP, YOU WILL WAKE TO [AT LEAST] THE THREAT OF HAVING TO DEFEND YOURSELF, THE PROCEEDS OF THE DAY’S FORAGE AND HUNT, A DESIRED MATE, AND RESULTANT OFFSPRING.

If you have built, provided for, and surrounded yourself by a Society that has afforded you the luxury to play this game again tomorrow then you get to go play Humanitarianism today. [loosely paraphrased, TERMS, J.M.Thomas R., 2012]

JESUS did the loaves and the fishes miracle by multiplying what was given unto him, and the remainder was gathered and not wasted. There is a lesson there. Those following THAT example can provide for the many. They can’t if you regulate how many loaves and fishes they can have on hand to do it. NOR SHOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO REGULATE WHICH MULTITUDE THEY CHOOSE TO FEED.

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, more than weakness and stupidity - by sheer terms of opportunity.
I may very well be stuck on this planet, but that does not prevent me from interjecting my humanitarianism view wherever and whenever I can. Again, the goal for our modern world is to implement humanitarian values within our very greedy societies, regardless of the system of government.
 
If the great nation of the Vatican can practice humanitarianism, why not all other nations and the people in which they govern?
The Vatican’s humanitarianism (charity) is funded by voluntary contributions. Some of those funds may freely come from you and me. The reason no other government is capable of charitable work is that every other government extorts its funds at gunpoint.

We must never confuse government welfare and charity.
 
The Vatican’s humanitarianism (charity) is funded by voluntary contributions. Some of those funds may freely come from you and me. The reason no other government is capable of charitable work is that every other government extorts its funds at gunpoint.

We must never confuse government welfare and charity.
My main point is how to best implement humanitarian values within a very greedy world. Yes, I believe that when charity is lacking, we must look to government subsidies.
 
My main point is how to best implement humanitarian values within a very greedy world. Yes, I believe that when charity is lacking, we must look to government subsidies.
As another previously posted - forced charity is not charity. Further, if charity is “lacking” it may be that it is ‘tapped-out’ or that the need has not been “made known.”

If you cannot [HAVE NOT] ask[ed] your friends, family, church or community for HELP, you should not be able to demand it of me, or have a 3rd party demand it of me for you. If you have not endeared yourself enough to those groups you are more likely a danger to them and yourself, and by extension me (and my means to provide assistance). If any of these overlying groups require assistance, it is to the next higher group to HELP (reconstitute) provided that goup has not been engaged in the destruction of the party attempting to provide assistance. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]
When forming interactive societies one maxim maintains the balance of individuals when commingled pairs form larger groups.
That maxim is simply:
I WILL NOT PAY TO RAISE-UP AN ARMY AGAINST MYSELF’. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]
 
AND Sock . .

Don’t you dare hold out your hand for assistance, for you or anyone else, while threatening the whip of the term “greedy.”
Referring to the previous notion of support; forcing those requiring help to endear
themselves to those who provide it, protects the support and ability to support of those able to provide it, and increases the frequency of forming, and protecting societal agreement between members. Basically, it reinforces that which best avoids ruin. Further, since actual need has a tendency, on scale, to lessen one’s concern over other’s needs, demanding that such a consideration occur by those requesting assistance builds in a further separation from the idea of entitlement. In that way, regardless of how needy the needy become, they still afford themselves a moment to consider, that the providers for need may have, regardless of ostensible appearances, the entirety of their resources previously spoken for. Such resources may already in fact, be previously leveraged against other’s needs. Moreover, those others may already be
providing for the needs of the initial requesting individual.
[TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012, pg. 68]

The worthless will always request the providence FOR need, while the providers are hard-at the work of reducing THE need.

Give a man a fish, he eats for today.
Teach a man to fish, he eats everyday.
Teach a man to fish with dynamite, and . . .
You may (eventually) have to give the man a chicken;)
 
If you cannot [HAVE NOT] ask[ed] your friends, family, church or community for HELP, you should not be able to demand it of me, or have a 3rd party demand it of me for you. If you have not endeared yourself enough to those groups you are more likely a danger to them and yourself,
So only nice people deserve to get charity?

And what should nasty people do? Should we force them to hunger so they steal and we can stick them in jail afterwards?

Welfare is not charity. Do not confuse the two. Charity is about throwing scraps of food at the hungry so that just for today, they feel a little less hungry (and so they vote for us afterwards or join our church or whatever). Government programs are about challenging the root causes of poverty and helping people stand on their own feet. Yes, such programs are often mismanaged and ineffective and often degrade into charity. But then the challenge should be to fix them, not to make things worse by sabotaging them even further.
 
As another previously posted - forced charity is not charity. Further, if charity is “lacking” it may be that it is ‘tapped-out’ or that the need has not been “made known.”

If you cannot [HAVE NOT] ask[ed] your friends, family, church or community for HELP, you should not be able to demand it of me, or have a 3rd party demand it of me for you. If you have not endeared yourself enough to those groups you are more likely a danger to them and yourself, and by extension me (and my means to provide assistance). If any of these overlying groups require assistance, it is to the next higher group to HELP (reconstitute) provided that goup has not been engaged in the destruction of the party attempting to provide assistance. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]
When forming interactive societies one maxim maintains the balance of individuals when commingled pairs form larger groups.
That maxim is simply:
I WILL NOT PAY TO RAISE-UP AN ARMY AGAINST MYSELF’. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]
When people in a very greedy society such as ours refuse to act charitably, it is the government responsibility to step in with humanitarian aid. As a Catholic, what do you propose we do with extreme poverty? Should we just let it continue and look the other way? Where would our Christian values be if we did? I’m appalled that the Catholic Church that I have been attending has homeless people sitting on the curbs, and yet does not have a collection to help them.
 
When people in a very greedy society such as ours refuse to act charitably, it is the government responsibility to step in with humanitarian aid. As a Catholic, what do you propose we do with extreme poverty? Should we just let it continue and look the other way? Where would our Christian values be if we did? I’m appalled that the Catholic Church that I have been attending has homeless people sitting on the curbs, and yet does not have a collection to help them.
You seem to forget that the government represents the people. If the people are greedy so is the government. :rolleyes:
 
Welfare is not charity. Do not confuse the two. Charity is about throwing scraps of food at the hungry so that just for today, they feel a little less hungry (and so they vote for us afterwards or join our church or whatever). Government programs are about challenging the root causes of poverty and helping people stand on their own feet. Yes, such programs are often mismanaged and ineffective and often degrade into charity. But then the challenge should be to fix them, not to make things worse by sabotaging them even further.
Please.

Welfare is about throwing scraps of food at the hungry so that just for today, they feel a little less hungry so they vote for those that claimed to feed them. Government programs are about extending and enlarging the “needy” class to ensure they are always there to provide votes. Such programs are always mismanaged and ineffective and have done nothing to alleviate the level of poverty in the in US despite of having spent trillions of dollars. When federal welfare programs were greatly expanded under Johnson the US poverty rate stopped dropping after a steady decline for 30 years. Even worse after staying more or less steady for decades they have begun to greatly expand under Obama - thus locking in more voters…

federalsafetynet.com/poverty-and-spending-over-the-years.html
 
You seem to forget that the government represents the people. If the people are greedy so is the government. :rolleyes:
Yes, the government represents the people, but you seem to forget that those living in extreme poverty are also persons who the government ought to be representing. Or. is the government only to represent its greedy citizens?
 
Yes, the government represents the people, but you seem to forget that those living in extreme poverty are also persons who the government ought to be representing. Or. is the government only to represent its greedy citizens?
It would seem the government is representing the greediest of citizens with its massive redistribution of wealth from the working classes to the nonworking.
 
It would seem the government is representing the greediest of citizens with its massive redistribution of wealth from the working classes to the nonworking.
Reread my comments.
 
You seem to forget that the government represents the people. If the people are greedy so is the government.
Whoa - “Government” is WE THE PEOPLE in the U.S. AND EVERYWHERE ELSE. There is not a “more noble” creature that exists that is or constitutes “government.” If you find someone claiming otherwise cut them open and skin them to verify their claims and hang their brain-tanned pelt on the side of your barn.

If someone needs “HELP” do not remove them from their best chance of escaping the “need” for help by giving them handouts from some entity that does not require them to, in some way, endear themselves to those providing for them, or else you promote the environment for abuse BOTH WAYS, and you lessen the perceived need by those providing, i.e., TAXPAYERS.
So only nice people deserve to get charity?
Yes, but you give it to the others anyway, so that you can FEEL* charitable*.

There are no wholly beneficent acts performed by living things. You ALWAYS do something because it makes you FEEL GOOD (i.e., satisfies some need YOU HAVE). That goes for ‘government’ as well, except you divide up the providence according to the “needs” of MANY MANY OTHERS, and that’s where you cheat the actual effectivity of Charity.
 
IF you want to have any form of Nationalized Welfare, i.e., one could say (in the U.S.) that we have a great Nation that is large and diverse enough that certain measures need to be taken to ensure that:
  1. There are roads/bridges/Post Offices in places where there is not enough people to typically support the creation and maintenance of such things.
  2. That there be some net as LAST resort, that funnels you to other civic groups and churches for support.
One must also support that (to the utmost extent possible) ALL internal and foreign aid not supplant existing natural economies.
 
In Does Catholicism Still Exist, p 176-177, Fr James V Schall, S.J., points to what has been wrong in some analyses:
“In contemporary ideological analysis, the so-called maldistribution of the world’s goods seemed to be explained in terms of envy by the poor alongside the moral corruption of those economic systems that did in fact produce existing wealth in the modern world. The result of such a theory was that instead of examining the many cultural, political, economic and especially religious causes of why the poor were poor, the poor were told that they were poor because they were exploited by the rich, by those who knew how to produce wealth.

“As a result of this analysis, the poor need not learn how to produce wealth but instead they should insist, even violently, that what was rightfully ‘theirs’, on the basis of some exploitation theory, be ‘returned’ to them. Such theories not only proved statistically impossible – the world needs more wealth, not a redistribution of existing wealth – but justified decades of wasted energy and effort by the poor peoples themselves seeking a false solution to their own problems and blaming theories that did work to solve their own problems.”

Pius XI declared emphatically in Quadragesimo Anno, 1931, #120: “If Socialism, like all errors, contains some truth (which, moreover, the Supreme Pontiffs have never denied), it is based nevertheless on a theory of human society peculiar to itself and irreconcilable with true Christianity. Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.

“And so, Venerable Brethren and Beloved Sons, having surveyed the present economic system, We have found it laboring under the gravest of evils. We have also summoned Communism and Socialism again to judgment and have found all their forms, even the most modified, to wander far from the precepts of the Gospel.” (#128).

Bl Pope John Paul II is very careful to reaffirm the principle of subsidiarity and to ensure that we understand the excesses that should be avoided. He warned that: “By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending.

“In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called ‘Welfare State’. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the ‘Social Assistance State’. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.” (Centesimus Annus, 48, Bl John Paul II, 1991).

The Social Teaching of the Popes certainly does not encourage State Welfare but does support some State assistance – the ideas of taxation relief for families with dependent children, family allowances etc. and assistance for the unemployed.
 
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