Why Not Excommunication?

[Drawmack]

FYI, every mortal sin incurs a latae sententiae excommunication of a sort. Are you saying that raping a child is not a mortal sin? I don’t know why you are hung up on formal categories and terms.

Blessings

Let me get this straight. I should just say well I guess that the Catholic Church hasn’t gotten around to that one yet when they haven’t created a formal category or term for something. No, I think not.

I am hung up on the fact that the Catholic Church makes all these rules and regulations. There are myriad inconsistencies within those rules and regulations. And, I believe, this shows the problem with the Catholic Church.

 

[CMatt25]

So the woman how is just doing what doctors told her she has to, in order to save her daughter’s life deserves to be separated from the Sacraments. But, the people who make the laws saying it’s legal to get abortions are not and the monster who raped the little girl for three years doesn’t. Yeah – that sounds like the Gospel Jesus preached to me.

You’re asking me? I only posted what my understanding of excommunication is. But no I don’t.

 

[HereticalTheist]

It’s a tough question. Excommunication shouldn’t be used without serious, serious thought.

No, I’m not saying Dowd (I had no idea she was Catholic) and Sr. Chittister (I’m fairly certain she’s catholic ) don’t deserve it, it’s just something to be used in the most severe cases-done to save a life, like an amputation or a divorce.

Just my opinion.

 

[Ignatius]

It seems to me, therefore, that their formal exclusion would benefit the faithful while doing the unfaithful no harm.

It would not only benenfit the faithful, it would very likely wake them up to the great sin they are committing and so benenfit them as well. Excommunication very often has a healing effect in correcting those who receive it.

 

[mardukm]

Let me get this straight. I should just say well I guess that the Catholic Church hasn’t gotten around to that one yet when they haven’t created a formal category or term for something. No, I think not.

I am hung up on the fact that the Catholic Church makes all these rules and regulations. There are myriad inconsistencies within those rules and regulations. And, I believe, this shows the problem with the Catholic Church.

A latae sententiae excommunication are for acts that do not require any sort of tribunal to decide from any perspective. The fact is, allegations of the rape of a minor ALWAYS require investigation by competent authorities. And what do you do when two minors engage in sex, two who may not know the gravity of their actions. And what do you do when a minor solicits sex. Or what about when a minor lies about their age to get sex. Further, different societies have different mores about what constitutes a “minor.”

There are so many factors involved. Those who are against the Church tend to be rather irrational about certain issues, which is understandable in some circumstances, given the emotional nature of those issues. But the irrationality can go too far.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Renko]

Why not excommunication, if a person does not believe with his or her whole heart on what the church teaches, then I don’t consider them Catholic or even Christian. Excommunicate the bums.

 

[fkjuliano]

(Edited)

Biden and Pelosi and Giuliani and the Kennedy family and their whole legion of hypocrites should be excommunicated as well, but I guess (most) American bishops just don’t have the guts to do it. However that may be, the Catholic Church is a holy institution not because of the people in it but by virtue of its foundation by Jesus Christ and uninterrupted succession from His chosen apostles. By contrast, your “Christian” church (whichever one of more 33,000 it may be) is unholy from the outset as it was started by some sinful, arrogant man who thought that for 1,500 years or longer no one had gotten Christianity right until he came along. Such morbid pridefulness can only have one source, and that source lies as far away from God as can be. In other words, Catholic versus Protestant debates are a total of waste of time and not one in which I wish to engage to any further extent.

 

[lutherlic]

This is such a difficult question. It really has two parts, the harm the individual is doing to themselves and the scandal they may cause the Church. The later can cause harm, depending on its nature, to countless souls.

It seems to me that the Church itself is seriously harmed by some who claim to be faithful Catholics. Inaction on the part of the Church is viewed by many, inside and outside, that their claims have merit.

Before this step is taken, the greatest care should be exercised to insure the person stands by their position in opposition to the Church, has no intention to repent, and has no intention to amend their life. If that is the case, then excommunication is just recognizing their purposeful and informed action. I feel it would be the right step in the interest of ultimately healing the person and reducing the effect of scandal.

 

[Drawmack]

A latae sententiae excommunication are for acts that do not require any sort of tribunal to decide from any perspective. The fact is, allegations of the rape of a minor ALWAYS require investigation by competent authorities. And what do you do when two minors engage in sex, two who may not know the gravity of their actions. And what do you do when a minor solicits sex. Or what about when a minor lies about their age to get sex. Further, different societies have different mores about what constitutes a “minor.”

There are so many factors involved. Those who are against the Church tend to be rather irrational about certain issues, which is understandable in some circumstances, given the emotional nature of those issues. But the irrationality can go too far.

Blessings,
Marduk

We’re talking about a 9 year old who was pregnant. And, you’re claiming that an investigation needs to be done to know if she was raped really, really. I’m sorry but that is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

 

[Drawmack]

First of all, we’re talking about excommunication here and the number of Protestant denominations has nothing to do with that.

Biden and Pelosi and Giuliani and the Kennedy family and their whole legion of hypocrites should be excommunicated as well, but I guess (most) American bishops just don’t have the guts to do it.

And, if you read my original statement in this thread what I said is that they are not equally applied. It seems you agree.

However that may be, the Catholic Church is a holy institution not because of the people in it but by virtue of its foundation by Jesus Christ and uninterrupted succession from His chosen apostles.

Yes I am aware of this claim. I am also aware that it is unsubstantiated for two reasons. First of all there have been anti-popes along the way which leaves questions as to who, if anyone, was in the seat of Peter during their reign. Secondly, there are clear guidelines in Timothy giving the criteria that a Bishop must meet in order to be a Bishop and many Popes have not lived up to those criteria and therefore were not valid Bishops.

By contrast, your “Christian” church (whichever one of more 33,000 it may be)

Please provide your source for this number of Protestant denominations?

is unholy from the outset as it was started by some sinful, arrogant man who thought that for 1,500 years or longer no one had gotten Christianity right until he came along.

I’m sorry but this is bigoted ignorance. I see no reason to view you as a reasonable person. And with such wonderful apologetics I’m certain that you help the Holy Spirit win hundreds to the fullness of the Catholic Church every day.

Such morbid pridefulness can only have one source, and that source lies as far away from God as can be. In other words, Catholic versus Protestant debates are a total of waste of time and not one in which I wish to engage to any further extent.

Yes, all the Protestant churches are satanic. Wonderful bridge building there. I’m running off to join an RCIA class right now. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways you bigoted moron.

 

[mardukm]

We’re talking about a 9 year old who was pregnant. And, you’re claiming that an investigation needs to be done to know if she was raped really, really. I’m sorry but that is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

Don’t change the subject. In the post I was directly responding to, you were complaining about why the rape of a minor does not have a latae sententiae excommunication. I gave you the reason. It has nothing to do with the obvious evidence when someone is in the later stages of pregnancy.

Please stop being irrational.

Blessings

 

[CMatt25]

Why not excommunication, if a person does not believe with his or her whole heart on what the church teaches, then I don’t consider them Catholic or even Christian. Excommunicate the bums.

The Church actually teaches Baptism by its indelible character permanently bonds one to the Church. Even excommunicated Catholics are still considered Catholic Christians. Barred from the Sacraments and from participating in official capacities such as being a lector, EMHC, etc. But welcomed back in full communion via reconcilliation. However I neither want you excommunicated not consider you a bum if you don’t believe this with your whole heart. Peace to you.