Why not learn Latin?

[Mojo674]

Latin may be acceptable to the West, but it should not be enforced universally. How about Greek? Constantinople was the leading Patriarchate along with Rome, why don’t you learn Greek. How about Russian or Old Slavonic? There is a Moscow Patriarchate that has arisen, shouldn’t you learn some of their language? Being in communion doesn’t mean they have to share everything, there is nothing wrong with Latin, but you cannot forcibly make everyone learn Latin. I’m sure Rome and all of the Western Catholics would be very mad if we forced Greek, Russian, Hebrew, Arabic, or Old Slavonic on them. Latin for the West, let the East be for Latin has never been its “universal language”. In addition, the East has strongly upheld the vernacular. Russia received Old Slavonic and Russian, they don’t have to use Greek. The Carpatho-Rusyns use Old Slavonic, the Byzantine Ruthenian Church uses both Old Slavonic from our heritage and English since we are in America. Please understand the consequences before claiming that it was a universal language. Look at the countless Greek Fathers who wrote in Greek and not Latin. We have John Chrysostom, Cyril of Jerusalem, Ignatius of Antioch, Isaac of Nineveh, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, etc. Most of them did not write in Latin, or if they did only a few treatises were written in the language. I will not say whether Latin should be used in the West or not, but please do not make it into a “universal language” because it never was in the East.

In Christ,
Nicholas

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I think the argument against learning Latin is best (and most humourously) summed ip in the ‘go home Romans’ scene from ‘Monty Python’s Life of Brian’.

Google, watch and enjoy - I’m too lazy to post a link.

Greetings LilyM,

That has got to be my favourite scene from the movie. I watched it again.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[YoungTradCath]

Latin may be acceptable to the West, but it should not be enforced universally. How about Greek? Constantinople was the leading Patriarchate along with Rome, why don’t you learn Greek. How about Russian or Old Slavonic? There is a Moscow Patriarchate that has arisen, shouldn’t you learn some of their language? Being in communion doesn’t mean they have to share everything, there is nothing wrong with Latin, but you cannot forcibly make everyone learn Latin. I’m sure Rome and all of the Western Catholics would be very mad if we forced Greek, Russian, Hebrew, Arabic, or Old Slavonic on them. Latin for the West, let the East be for Latin has never been its “universal language”. In addition, the East has strongly upheld the vernacular. Russia received Old Slavonic and Russian, they don’t have to use Greek. The Carpatho-Rusyns use Old Slavonic, the Byzantine Ruthenian Church uses both Old Slavonic from our heritage and English since we are in America. Please understand the consequences before claiming that it was a universal language. Look at the countless Greek Fathers who wrote in Greek and not Latin. We have John Chrysostom, Cyril of Jerusalem, Ignatius of Antioch, Isaac of Nineveh, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, etc. Most of them did not write in Latin, or if they did only a few treatises were written in the language. I will not say whether Latin should be used in the West or not, but please do not make it into a “universal language” because it never was in the East.

In Christ,
Nicholas

I think this argument for Latin belongs specifically to the Latin Rite Church. The thread is in the Traditional Catholicism forum. I wouldn’t want Latin to be forced on Eastern Catholics; that’s not traditional to begin with.

 

[ProVobis]

How about Greek?

Physics and math majors usually learn the Greek alphabet and principles, which are themselves probably more than most Anglophones care to know.

 

[odile53]

Here’s the Youtube link for the Python clip:

youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

Warning: A couple of obscenities, typical of what you would expect in a Monty Python movie. I’m surprised I missed this movie, the scene really reminded me of Sister Mary Louise (my high school Latin teacher) dissecting the first year students’ constructions, including ear-grabbing and admonitions to write corrections a hundred times (without the obscene threat attached, however!)

The beauty, for me, of having struggled through three years of high school Latin is that recently, so many years later, when I took human anatomy and kinesiology courses that were core curriculum courses for my studies as a physical therapist, I had no problem at all with memorizing the correct names of anatomic structures. A relative who is a retired MD tells me that until the 1970’s, a couple of years of college Latin was a medical school prerequisite. He thoroughly hated studying the language.

Even though I studied it for three and a half years, I am in no wise a fluent speaker of Latin: I would not be able, if such a thing existed, to step into a time machine, go to the Julian era Roman marketplace, and order the Roman equivalent of a Big Mac, for example.

My parish priest has an incredible tenor voice. At a recent parish social event I complimented him on it, and added that I thought his voice was ideally suited for Missa Cantata. The way he looked at me, you would have thought I had suggested that he rob a bank! He then admitted that Latin was his worst subject, bar none, and his inadequacies in Latin had nearly got him booted out of seminary.

So much for approaching him with the idea of getting an extraordinary form Mass started at our parish!

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I’ll take you up on that

Seriously, where can a broke blue collar guy like me start learning ecclesiastical latin from square one?

Kids blue collar 5 years old spoke Latin in Rome. So what?
Difficult is to understand you. What does it mean: “I’ll take you up on that”. The prepositions in english kill me: give up, give in,on, down, upon, off,… I tried to translate in Google but Google has problems with prrposition too and I did not understand it . So, please, do translate the sentence for me.
The only objection is to someone who only wants to learn Latin to go back to the Old Latin Mass of Fr. Lefebvre. Sorry, no.
But if someone wants to learn to understand the 2000 times when Latin was used in the Church of to understand greco-latin Culture, fine, I am ready.
GBY

 

[YoungTradCath]

Kids blue collar 5 years old spoke Latin in Rome. So what?
Difficult is to understand you. What does it mean: “I’ll take you up on that”. The prepositions in english kill me: give up, give in,on, down, upon, off,… I tried to translate in Google but Google has problems with prrposition too and I did not understand it . So, please, do translate the sentence for me.
The only objection is to someone who only wants to learn Latin to go back to the Old Latin Mass of Fr. Lefebvre. Sorry, no.
But if someone wants to learn to understand the 2000 times when Latin was used in the Church of to understand greco-latin Culture, fine, I am ready.
GBY

“I’ll take you up on that” means that he accepts your offer to teach him Latin. By the way, His Excellency was a bishop, not a priest.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

“I’ll take you up on that” means that he accepts your offer to teach him Latin. By the way, His Excellency was a bishop, not a priest.

thanks for the info.
I am crazy to enter this Project, but everybody says I am crazy so I have to live up to it.
Thanks

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Trevor_Stamm:
I did not forget you.
Simply, what to do? I thought in teaching you the grammar and so on and made a text but thought it would take a long time and you would not reach the point where you wnated to go. So I forgot grammar and will try, this is a try, to see if you like, to teach some famous sentences in latin and explain them.
The first is the famous: “per aspera ad astra!”. Per is a preposition that demands accusative here in aspera and ad is another preposition that demands acusative. Dont try to memorize just listen. Now the acusative plural neuter ends in “a”. so everything is the plural.
per= through
aspera=rough was of life
ad= towards
astra=the stars (from this word comes astronomy)

So, “through rough way to the stars”

Another, Jesus Christ said: “**veritas vos liberabit **”
veritas= truth
liberabit= will free (remember liberty), it is in the future, note that “bit”
vos- you(plural), it is the acusative plural

So, “truth will free you(plural)”

The third and last one for today, is the famous sign that Constantin saw in the Skies on top of a cross, before going into a war: “In hoc signo, vinces”. He promised that he would become Christian if he won the war. He won and gave the Christian the Edit of Milan in 313, where freedom of worship was granted. In 100 years the whole Europe became Christian.
“In” is a preposition similar to english, that means a space and demands ablative, so “hoc signo” is in the ablative singular. “vinces” is the future and rather not regular one, that means to win.
In hoc signo= In This Sign, or Through this Sign
vinces= you will win.

So, through this sign, you will win.
Good sentence, still today.
Please memorize these 3 sentences. Thanks.

Till next.

 

[Julia_Mae]

After all it is the language not of the Latin Rite, but of the universal Church? Now I know I’ve spent time learning techno jargon and sports stats, or movies or pop music lyrics - why not sacrafice some of these things to learning the Latin language?

Go ahead.

Veni, vedi, vici!

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Go ahead.

Veni, vedi, vici!

Let’s see whether my student will come back…

What you quoted is an alliteration, whci consists on a repetion of a sound. In this case, the sound “v” which makes a nice effect and the sound “i” in the end.

the repetition “n”, “d” and “c” makes a nice sound too.

the 3 are in the perfect simple it means in the past, in the 1st person of the singular.

Moreover, we have an assindet (??? how is it in english), with commas and not “and” yto connect the verbs.

And now I must go and cannot complete the analisis.

 

[MarkThompson]

Moreover, we have an assindet (??? how is it in english), with commas and not “and” yto connect the verbs.

The word is asyndeton.

 

[Barbkw]

After all it is the language not of the Latin Rite, but of the universal Church? Now I know I’ve spent time learning techno jargon and sports stats, or movies or pop music lyrics - why not sacrafice some of these things to learning the Latin language? What is the value of this language?

There’s beautiful sacred music (polyphony) written for the liturgy of the Mass in Latin composed in the 1600s.

Mainly for that reason, I’d like to read & recognize Latin - so that without being told I’d know the verses of Sacred Scripture that are being sung.

I don’t know the back history & development of polyphony but to me it sounds very similar to Gregorian Chant.

My favorite:

youtube.com/watch?v=pTLx7aL7dIQ

Dum Transisset Sabbatum - John Taverner

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taverner

"When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.

And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”

And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back — it was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed.

And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here.”

Mark 16:1-6

I wish I could step back into history and hear this sung at Mass.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

There’s beautiful sacred music (polyphony) written for the liturgy of the Mass in Latin composed in the 1600s.

Mainly for that reason, I’d like to read & recognize Latin - so that without being told I’d know the verses of Sacred Scripture that are being sung.

I don’t know the back history & development of polyphony but to me it sounds very similar to Gregorian Chant.

My favorite:

youtube.com/watch?v=pTLx7aL7dIQ

Dum Transisset Sabbatum - John Taverner

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taverner

"When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.

And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”

And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back — it was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed.

And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here.”

Mark 16:1-6

I wish I could step back into history and hear this sung at Mass.

I love it, pre-barocq music.
You seem to be able to listen it to the end of theworld.
Or, maybe, in Heaven.