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Razanir
Guest
Clarification: Marriage is a religious term… when applied to two people (hopefully of different genders)
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fix
Guest
The Church is interested in all people not just Catholics. The Church recognizes non Catholic and non sacramental marriages. Non of that is equivalent to homosexual unions.
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Jason_NC
Guest
I’m personally against any Government defining what is and what isn’t marriage. A legal marriage, yes, isn’t recognized as the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage is recognized as the Sacrament of Marriage
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Now, since Government does has it’s hands in Marriage, I’m against same-sex marriage because it’s a sin and a negative impact on society. As for unions, I’m against it for a few reasons, mainly the legal reasons. Under same-sex unions, homosexual couples have legal rights to adopt and raise children, which is one of the most shameful things a society can support.
.Now, since Government does has it’s hands in Marriage, I’m against same-sex marriage because it’s a sin and a negative impact on society. As for unions, I’m against it for a few reasons, mainly the legal reasons. Under same-sex unions, homosexual couples have legal rights to adopt and raise children, which is one of the most shameful things a society can support.
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bzkoss236
Guest
“Gay marriages” and civil unions for gays have only had a push in recent years. Even if there isn’t a public outcry (yet), that doesn’t mean it can’t happen if you open the gates.
But the arguments for “gay marriages” can be applied to these other relationships, “but they love each other, so they should be allowed to get married. They deserve ‘equal’ rights.”
That’s another thing… many people these days don’t know what makes something a ‘right’, and less about what it means to have equal rights.
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sw85
Guest
So if my wife packs up the house and takes the kids with her while I’m gone on business without telling me and for no reason, I should have no legal recourse?I’m personally against any Government defining what is and what isn’t marriage. A legal marriage, yes, isn’t recognized as the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage is recognized as the Sacrament of Marriage
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edwest2
Guest
Why do you need our permission? What’s the point? Nobody needs anybody’s permission to do what they want right now.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Why not tolerate any other form of sexual behavior? How about the recent attempt to get the APA to refer to a certain group as “minor attracted persons”?
americansfortruth.com/2011/08/25/firsthand-report-on-b4u-act-conference-for-minor-attracted-persons-aims-at-normalizing-pedophilia/
Peace,
Ed
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Why not tolerate any other form of sexual behavior? How about the recent attempt to get the APA to refer to a certain group as “minor attracted persons”?
americansfortruth.com/2011/08/25/firsthand-report-on-b4u-act-conference-for-minor-attracted-persons-aims-at-normalizing-pedophilia/
Peace,
Ed
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DexUK
Guest
Which is why I propose that Governments get right out of the business of using the term altogether and simply provide the legal frameworks for partnerships between pairs of humans, irrespective of gender. Leave Marriage to religion.
Think of it this way: Governments regulate all sorts of ways in which people can become involved with each other. How do you think that limited liability partnerships work? Or the setting up of corporations with directors? How does a business partnership between two people work? All have varying rights and responsibilities. There’s no logical reason why a government shouldn’t regulate a legal arrangement whereby two people (of whatever gender) should arrange between themselves inheritance rights, ‘next of kin’ rights in hospitals, etc.
It surely has to be unjust that a homosexual person who is in a loving relationship with another homosexual person for years and years is then denied access in a hospital when one partner gets sick. It surely can’t be right that a person whose family has disowned them for being homosexual then comes in after that person’s death and denies that person’s partner access to the funeral?
Whatever we, as Catholics, may feel about the rights and wrongs of sexual activity in same-gender non-marriage arrangements, we ARE bound to respect and love those around us. It is NOT loving to deny someone who is grieving the right to say goodbye to a person they may have spent years and years with.
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TheBreak
Guest
English is not my first language, so I’m sorry for any misspelling.
Now, hope nobody will hate me because of what I’m going to say, I’m just speaking my mind and I don’t think that is something I should not do in this forum.
If man wants to mary another man, or woman wants to marry another woman, big deal. I don’t care, now don’t get me wrong, I’m Christian catholic. but also one of the things that attracted me to Christianity is that no one should judge other people for whatever reason, because we are all sinners, we all need God’s hand to help us.
The state and the church are separated, and that is good thing for the church, because I always see that the state is dirty and the church is holy. Now, all people are born free and equal in dignity and rights. and this is what should every state do for it’s people. so, the church should not force it’s morals and thinking on the state, and the same thing with the state not forcing it’s morals and thinking on the church. For me, I’m okay with same sex marriage, before anyone jump and start get mad. let’s face it. there are thousands of straight people getting married out of the church, and according to the church’s teaching, that is not full marriage, and thousands of straight couple getting divorce everyday, and that is also wrong, so, marriage is already gone away from the church’s hand. The state should treat everybody equal, regardless of anything else, and if we are going to force our own beliefs about marriage against the state, than also other religious people should have the right to force their beliefs about marriage too, and that is include the right for man to mary more than one woman in Islam. So, the state should give the right for all people to marry, BUT, there is NOWAY to force the church to accept that. The Church is holy and separated from the State,
Btw, I’m okay with leaving the concept of "marriage’ to the church (if it is possible), and the state find another term to use for unions that happening out of the church authority.
I’m not going to have debate in what I just said, I’m just speaking my mind.
May God bless you all.
Now, hope nobody will hate me because of what I’m going to say, I’m just speaking my mind and I don’t think that is something I should not do in this forum.
If man wants to mary another man, or woman wants to marry another woman, big deal. I don’t care, now don’t get me wrong, I’m Christian catholic. but also one of the things that attracted me to Christianity is that no one should judge other people for whatever reason, because we are all sinners, we all need God’s hand to help us.
The state and the church are separated, and that is good thing for the church, because I always see that the state is dirty and the church is holy. Now, all people are born free and equal in dignity and rights. and this is what should every state do for it’s people. so, the church should not force it’s morals and thinking on the state, and the same thing with the state not forcing it’s morals and thinking on the church. For me, I’m okay with same sex marriage, before anyone jump and start get mad. let’s face it. there are thousands of straight people getting married out of the church, and according to the church’s teaching, that is not full marriage, and thousands of straight couple getting divorce everyday, and that is also wrong, so, marriage is already gone away from the church’s hand. The state should treat everybody equal, regardless of anything else, and if we are going to force our own beliefs about marriage against the state, than also other religious people should have the right to force their beliefs about marriage too, and that is include the right for man to mary more than one woman in Islam. So, the state should give the right for all people to marry, BUT, there is NOWAY to force the church to accept that. The Church is holy and separated from the State,
Btw, I’m okay with leaving the concept of "marriage’ to the church (if it is possible), and the state find another term to use for unions that happening out of the church authority.
I’m not going to have debate in what I just said, I’m just speaking my mind.
May God bless you all.
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bzkoss236
Guest
These types of legal benefits can be achieved without marriage or civil unions.
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Jason_NC
Guest
If I find the study I’ll make sure to post it, but there was a study done to prove how all the legal benefits of marriage in the United States can be dealt with by creating a custody agreement/contract and by the legal aspects of a will (if a death is to occur). This would protect all religion’s freedoms by having no outside influence over it’s definition of marriage. This would technically make polygamy legal, as there are religions that support it, but seeing how there are religions that support same-sex marriage, it would just be further proof that outside of the Catholic Church there is nothing but sin in false religions founded by man.
Would this however work? I’m sure this is a discussion for lawyers, economists, and sociologist to figure out, but I personally believe it would.
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DexUK
Guest
Not completely though.
Depending on jurisdiction, some of these things are not even legally ‘giveable’ to another person other than by marriage/civil union.
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edwest2
Guest
Call a hospital. Any hospital. And ask them if you can visit a sick friend. I worked in a hospital for nearly 10 years and had to know all the rules. No one was EVER not allowed to visit anybody. I was in an emergency room in 2011, and my male friend stayed with me for hours. NO ONE asked what our relationship was. No one.
The deceased person’s family denies someone access to a funeral? And how is that anything other than what the dead man’s family wants? Are you going to force people to do things against their will?
Peace,
Ed
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SofiaBelgrade
Guest
Well said.
I can’t wrap my head around how I can expect other people to live to all of my religious beliefs, but not expect them to have the same rights (making me live by their beliefs).
If I believe, purely because of religious reasons, that two men living together or two women living together as spouses is wrong, then I won’t live my life that way. My religion doesn’t tell me that I need to dress modestly to the point of wearing a burka, but there are religions where my dressing the way that I do is considered wrong and immoral and detrimental to society. I don’t expect people who believe that to force that opinion on me (make that the law), because that’s not in line with my religion.
If someone is accepting of gay marriage in their religion (or lack of religion), then I don’t see how I can justify standing in their way.
I hate to be terribly long winded, but I legitimately struggle to understand this opinion/stance. Why is gay marriage the topic of so much debate and such heated opinions while heterosexual marriages that lack any devotion are left alone? Not just celebrity weddings, but how many marriages are entered into without proper respect and consideration before? How many end in divorce, because that’s seen as easier than working through problems? And why isn’t everyone up in arms about these situations instead of focusing so much time and energy on gay marriage - especially considering that many of those people have been in respectful and committed relationships with each other for years, even decades?
I’m not trying to be offensive, and forgive me if my questions have gotten off topic on this.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Sofia
If someone is accepting of gay marriage in their religion (or lack of religion), then I don’t see how I can justify standing in their way.
As a Catholic you just need get on the record as opposed … unless you are a cafeteria Catholic, in which case you approve. But you cannot stand lukewarm on the sidelines and say it’s none of your business. That’s what wrong with the world today … everybody going along with just about everything. No lines drawn … no common sense left.
If someone is accepting of gay marriage in their religion (or lack of religion), then I don’t see how I can justify standing in their way.
As a Catholic you just need get on the record as opposed … unless you are a cafeteria Catholic, in which case you approve. But you cannot stand lukewarm on the sidelines and say it’s none of your business. That’s what wrong with the world today … everybody going along with just about everything. No lines drawn … no common sense left.
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DexUK
Guest
In this instance, YES.
In the several instances of absolute and all-encompassing heartbreak I have heard about, a surviving partner of many years was denied access to the funeral of someone he loved (forget sexual activity, this is the abiding and over-riding affection, care, compassion and love that one human being can have for another). Denied by a family that had previously banished their own, now deceased, family member for being homosexual. By what standard of moral justice does that family, which had previously disowned their living member, retain ANY moral rights over the handling of that deceased person’s funeral arrangements? To deny that person’s partner any say, or even presence at his dead loved-one’s funeral is cruel punishment. Could YOU do that to another human being?
This is part of the reason why governments are moving towards providing same-gender partnership arrangements with legal rights equivalent to heterosexual marriage. And I’m not going to beat about the bush. I think that’s a Very Good Thing. I think it’s compassionate, it’s just, and it’s not relevant that the Church doesn’t like it, since the Church isn’t ever going to ‘marry’ two people of the same gender.
I don’t care what the statutory legal arrangement between two persons of the same gender is called and I’m quite happy for it to be called something other than ‘marriage’, but I could not, in all conscience and regardless of whether or not I approved of their sexual activity, deny someone’s loving partner the right to have (name removed by moderator)ut into end-of-life decisions (since by means of entering that type of statutory arrangement, both partners cede each other the right to do so) and certainly I could not deny them the right to attend their own partner’s funeral. If you asked me to do that and I did, I don’t know how I could face God at the end of my own life.
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edwest2
Guest
This is just derailing. Or, “Look what’s going on over there. Surely that is all the reason we need to allow this.”
Well said.
I can’t wrap my head around how I can expect other people to live to all of my religious beliefs, but not expect them to have the same rights (making me live by their beliefs).
If I believe, purely because of religious reasons, that two men living together or two women living together as spouses is wrong, then I won’t live my life that way. My religion doesn’t tell me that I need to dress modestly to the point of wearing a burka, but there are religions where my dressing the way that I do is considered wrong and immoral and detrimental to society. I don’t expect people who believe that to force that opinion on me (make that the law), because that’s not in line with my religion.
If someone is accepting of gay marriage in their religion (or lack of religion), then I don’t see how I can justify standing in their way.
I hate to be terribly long winded, but I legitimately struggle to understand this opinion/stance. Why is gay marriage the topic of so much debate and such heated opinions while heterosexual marriages that lack any devotion are left alone? Not just celebrity weddings, but how many marriages are entered into without proper respect and consideration before? How many end in divorce, because that’s seen as easier than working through problems? And why isn’t everyone up in arms about these situations instead of focusing so much time and energy on gay marriage - especially considering that many of those people have been in respectful and committed relationships with each other for years, even decades?
I’m not trying to be offensive, and forgive me if my questions have gotten off topic on this.
I think the question is: Why do gay people or supporters of gay/civil unions/marriage bother Catholic people?
Just ignore the Catholics over there/here. Trust me, my arms were never in an upward position about this. To my fellow Catholics, we need to be obedient to Church teaching, otherwise, why bother?
Peace,
Ed
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sw85
Guest
It sounds to me like that’s still “legislating marriage,” just by positively declaring its worthlessness.
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bzkoss236
Guest
Amen
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edwest2
Guest
Sexual activity is not the issue, and how are Catholics involved with anything related to a private funeral? It’s between the family of the deceased individual and their partner, NOT US. We are NOT there.
I thought I was dying in 2011. I would have given my friend durable power of attorney for medical and funeral purposes if it got worse. I put him on my IRA, on my bank account and, if I knew I was dying, I would have drawn up a will leaving everything to him. Simple. And nobody asked about our relationship - nobody.
If you feel the blood relations - the family - did the wrong thing, then they would have to face the consequences, not you, or US.
If you and others here don’t care what the Church thinks then why are you posting here?
Is there something you’re willing to die for? The World War II vets I knew growing up were willing to die for God and Country.
Peace,
Ed
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underacloud
Guest
Thanks for posting this Ed.
While I’m not sure I agree with the position outlined, and it contradicts what I said earlier, I know that I must assent to this position. I’ll try to make better sense of it.
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