Why not use patens at Mass

[casslean]

I apologize if I was unclear but my question is – if we have patens and we can have altar servers saying they see the need for them – what is the case for not using them?

Instead of coming here and looking for support, why don’t you ask your priest if the two of you can have a discussion on the matter and raise your concerns to him? Of course, that will only work if you’re prepared to listen with an open heart and an open mind and respect that, at the end of the day, even if you disagree with him, it’s his decision to make.

 

[carmel2013]

Thank you for your response but we have been asking him (and our Deacon) and are not getting answers, which is why I came here. First we got “Father doesn’t want them.” Then we got “Deacon doesn’t want them.” Then we got, “Hosts no longer leave particles” (again, negated by the altar servers).
Several of us have tried to meet with the pastor and the deacon but our requests keep getting sloughed off (“I’ll have to check my schedule.” “Call me next week.” “Oh, I’m busy…”) If such a meeting were to take place, of course, I would listen to them with the respect due them as ordained ministers of God. But we don’t seem able to get such a meeting. They are very busy, granted, but the above responses have been given so often to so many different people that it does rather feel like we are being given the brush off. (And no, we are being as respectful in our requests as possible – no guns blazing, no raised voices etc.)
So, I came here to seek an answer on the order of: “Patens (or communion plates) are no longer generally used because…”
I am seeking understanding only, not to start a fight.

 

[phoage]

carmel2013

I understand your concern. About 5-6 years ago, the parish my wife and I go to got a new pastor. He was much more “modern” than the previous pastor. No Latin (none), no chant, he frowned heavily on traditional hymns, no Confidior ever, and when a group of parishioners asked about a specific devotion, he accused them of being “spiritually greedy”.

Many of us voted on this change with our feet. My wife, had been a music minister there for 25 years but we found a different parish. I know this is not an option for everyone but if it is possible, it is something to think about.

Patrick
AMDG

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Over here we call them Communion plates , and the paten is what the priest puts his host on .

I was confused at first too because I also think of “paten” as what the priest lays the Host on.
I figured out a couple posts in what they were talking about.

 

[1ke]

Our patens have now gone missing, apparently purposely put away so our altar servers won’t use them.

The only mention of the communion-plate in the GIRM is in reference to reception by intinction.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wor...uction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-4.cfm

(likewise the use of kneelers at the reception of Communion, among many other practices

The norm in the US is standing. That doesn’t mean you can’t kneel to receive, but maybe the priest wants to encourage the norms established by the US bishops.

Really, it’s up to him. He’s the pastor. The parish council can let him know the impact it’s having on the faithful, and encourage him to be open to retaining the prior practices.

 

[1ke]

The next time Father wants a new polyester vestment, or a new sound system so the cantor’s voice can be blasted all through the nave…maybe he should be turned down.

Who would do this turning down? The pastor is the authority in the parish. There isn’t anyone to turn him down.

 

[JimG]

My parish, which is a pretty modern parish, has always used patens when distributing communion. I can think of very few occasions when they have not been used.

But we also use few EMHC’s, four at most, and there are sufficient patens and altar servers who are adept at using them. We also receive under one species only.

I think that many parishes stopped using patens when the number of EMHC’s multiplied. It is entirely up to the pastor.

 

[Pup7]

I have to admit I was disappointed the first time I went to Mass at the Cathedral and there’s no longer a rail. I remember that from Mass with my dad as a kid in Philadelphia and thought, where’d they go?

I still think it’s odd to stand and receive.

 

[JimG]

I still think it’s odd to stand and receive.

In my parish, at least on weekdays we still use the communion rail, but we stand while receiving communion lined up at the communion rail!

 

[13pollitos]

Not all military chapels. We don’t have them here or at the one we were at before moving here (several years ago). I have been to civilian parishes recently that have used them though. Not many, most churches I’ve attended do not use them.

 

[Augustinian]

I have to admit I was disappointed the first time I went to Mass at the Cathedral and there’s no longer a rail. I remember that from Mass with my dad as a kid in Philadelphia and thought, where’d they go?

Removing kneelers makes it look less cluttered, and less liability too. I don’t know how many people have tripped over kneelers, but orthopedic surgeons average a half a million a year, so it doesn’t take many accidents to boost insurance rates.

 

[Pup7]

Not all military chapels. We don’t have them here or at the one we were at before moving here (several years ago). I have been to civilian parishes recently that have used them though. Not many, most churches I’ve attended do not use them.

I can only speak for the ones up here, of course - which was what I had done.

 

[13pollitos]

I realize that. I just thought others might not realize that it also varies between posts just like civilian parishes. I didn’t mean to come across as argumentative. I apologize if I offended.

 

[Pup7]

I’m always surprised when it does vary, though - because the military archdiocese is pretty much one entity, for the most part, and funds are distributed pretty equally from my understanding.

I guess after all these years on active duty I’m so used to uniformity that the opposite strikes me as odd. Fortunately I only have a few years to retirement - as clearly it’s about that time.

 

[13pollitos]

I wonder if it has anything to do with branch of service. We are Army and the only chapel I can recall using them was when we were stationed for 2 years on an Air Force base. They did use them. I can’t seem to recall any Army chapel we’ve attended that uses patens. My husband just retired this year. I understand about the uniformity thing.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Yes, they hold them level, they return them to the Altar (visible particles or not) where they are purified with the other vessels. Only those who have the strength may be in that position (the sweet little 7 year old new server won’t be holding the paten).

 

[Pup7]

I wonder if it has anything to do with branch of service. We are Army and the only chapel I can recall using them was when we were stationed for 2 years on an Air Force base. They did use them. I can’t seem to recall any Army chapel we’ve attended that uses patens. My husband just retired this year. I understand about the uniformity thing.

This is an Army-controlled base with all Army Catholic priests, and all three chapels (sorry - all four!!) fall under Army control, so I don’t think that has much to do with it either. They also use them on the Navy installation to our north.

(On a joint base, one can tell which branch is primarily responsible by which installation is listed first - here, it’s Army; Alaska is Air Force - Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, where Elmendorf is an AFB; Hawaii is Navy - Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, where Pearl is the USN; etc.)

 

[13pollitos]

I guess it’s location then. Every duty station for us has been southern or mid western US, including the Air Force base. All of our chaplains have been Army priests as well, with occasional visiting civilian priests. Altar servers start just after first communion instead of the 5th graders off post. And the kids are all very reverent. Very traditional and pious, but no patens.

 

[Pup7]

Could also be pastor preference or - let’s face it - they’ve disappeared over the years and no one has re-ordered them. LOL.

 

[Sursum-Corda]

Accept the priests decision with humility?

The underlying policy behind all this is the post Vatican 2 churches decision that reverence for the Eucharist was “exaggerated” and strict practices like a patten to catch particles of a Host could be abandoned.

I think this simply shows the impact of false modern ideas in the contemporary Catholic Church.
How can reverence for the Eucharist be exaggerated by simply taking normal precautions to collect particles of the Host.?

All of this is bound up with loss of faith in the real Presence of Christ in the tabernacle and in the Eucharist.