Why Not?

[rinnie]

Why is it so terrible to think there is just nothingness?

Afterall, you will be dead, your nerves and awareness will be gone. You simply will not exist nor be aware of anything. How is that so terrible? Yuo will not regret or feel anything.

Because nothingless would make this life just that nothingless. I know I am here for a purpose. To do Gods work. To help people, to love, to be kind, etc. I may not always succeed but I try real hard. SOme days are easier then other, some people make it easier than others.

But see I do not believe in death. My dear Jesus took that away. I am so so glad. If I did believe in death only I could never handle the death of my dear Papa 2 years ago, and my best buddy my baby bro. He was only 39. But see they are in eternal happiness waiting for me someday. Then we will all be united again together in Christ Jesus just like he promised.

 

[Agripa]

Because nothingless would make this life just that nothingless. I know I am here for a purpose.

I am not certain at all that if our brief existence, book ended by nothingness before or after, would in anyway affect negatively what we do in this life. In fact, I think the rational understanding that we have but this life should inspire us to make the very best of it, to learn and push the boundaries of knowledge, to expand science and technology and make life as pleasant as possible and to make life for our offspring even better.

 

[Publisher]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

I didn’t well forgive me. Let me do that right now for you. SO SO glad you asked. This is my most favorite part of the bible to show people.

Here it is:

Acts 22:6 On that journey as drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from the sky fell suddenly shone around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me. Saul Saul why are you persecuting ME? Who are you sir? And he said to me. I AM JESUS THE NAZOREAN whom YOU are Persecuting.

Now unless we are going to argue for ever that Paul was not indeed persecuting the CC which we all know! There it is. So plain, so simple.

Saul was persecuting God’s People…and yes Jesus in Saul’s vision identified Himself with His People…that’s understood…since Christ was indwelling His People whom Saul was persecuting…I think it’s a long stretch to base your belief that Jesus=Catholic church on Saul’s vision of Jesus identifying with His People…since there was no institution of the Catholic church existing at that time that too is a stretch…for me anyway…if you find Truth in that belief…I’m ok with it…I simply disagree with you…not God mind you…but you I disagree with…an interesting interpretation I must say…but one I would not have got from the passage.

You can always mark it up to 'pridefully stubborn" or “invincilby ignorant” on my part however.

 

[rinnie]

I am not certain at all that if our brief existence, book ended by nothingness before or after, would in anyway affect negatively what we do in this life. In fact, I think the rational understanding that we have but this life should inspire us to make the very best of it, to learn and push the boundaries of knowledge, to expand science and technology and make life as pleasant as possible and to make life for our offspring even better.

Oh I do. To me this life is not even the tip of the iceburg. And I really do not see where technology has made life that pleasant for our offspring either. But I can see where showing them the teachings of Christ and what faith in him can do. If I could leave my Children one thing it is what my Papa left me. The gift of Faith, the teachings of Christ. That is worth more than any dollar figure could ever do.

Money can be stolen, lost, wasted etc. But Faith and God are forever!

If technology is so great and pleasant why are the rich so miserable and looking for bigger highs everyday. You see it constantly these movie stars on drugs, oding. etc. I will leave mine the hope, the promise that someday we will all have eternal life in Christ.

 

[Agripa]

Oh I do. To me this life is not even the tip of the iceburg. And I really do not see where technology has made life that pleasant for our offspring either. But I can see where showing them the teachings of Christ and what faith in him can do. If I could leave my Children one thing it is what my Papa left me. The gift of Faith, the teachings of Christ. That is worth more than any dollar figure could ever do.

Money can be stolen, lost, wasted etc. But Faith and God are forever!

If technology is so great and pleasant why are the rich so miserable and looking for bigger highs everyday. You see it constantly these movie stars on drugs, oding. etc. I will leave mine the hope, the promise that someday we will all have eternal life in Christ.

We want to beleve there is more. It helps us get past the fear of death. and in my experience, its not just the rich who constantly seek more! Poor, middle class, rich, whatever, human beings always want more than they have. How do you think the notion of heaven came to be in the first place? We want more and “heaven” became the place where we can “have it all”, where our desires are met, where we get eternal life, etc.

 

[Publisher]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

What do you think I think. I am Catholic for Goodness sakes. But the bread and wine that you don’t feel is necessary is actually the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, How can a presence get any more REAL than that!!! And no I would never settle for a Love feast. Not never, I want the actual true one on one presence of God. Don’t need no love feast to share with others. But if they wanna join us after Mass for dinner thats cool. But it would never ever take the place of Holy Commumion.

The Eucharist is an outward instituded by CHRIST to GIVE GRACE. I don’t see where we have the authority to change it.

Baptism is where we have put on Christ. Through the Holy Spirit Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and Sanctifies. Again an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. I will do it as Christ did it. Again I have no authority to change it. Jesus did just fine in my book

I understand your beliefs…I simply do not share them…if participating in the mass makes your life better, your words kinder, your heart nearer to God, your touch more gentle, your heart more compassionate, who am I to discourage you in participating in your ritual meal? I find the Inward Reality of the Living Presence more than adequate for me…the thought of ritual and rites confected or dispensed at the hands of anoher human…foreign to my experience with God.

 

[rinnie]

Saul was persecuting God’s People…and yes Jesus in Saul’s vision identified Himself with His People…that’s understood…since Christ was indwelling His People whom Saul was persecuting…I think it’s a long stretch to base your belief that Jesus=Catholic church on Saul’s vision of Jesus identifying with His People…since there was no institution of the Catholic church existing at that time that too is a stretch…for me anyway…if you find Truth in that belief…I’m ok with it…I simply disagree with you…not God mind you…but you I disagree with…an interesting interpretation I must say…but one I would not have got from the passage.

You can always mark it up to 'pridefully stubborn" or “invincilby ignorant” on my part however.

But see thats the thing its not MY interpretation its the teachings of Christ. I do not have the authority to agree or disagree but the leaders of the Church can. They were promised the advocate remember the HS to define scripture. Not us!

Scripture tells us God gave different gifts to different people. Mine nor yours was to define scripture. The leaders of the Church are guided by the HS to do that. That is another reason we can be sure that we have the truth. Because there is only one truth. Not yours not mine, but Gods. And it comes from the CHurch being led by the HS.

Didn’t it ever amaze you how every church has their own way of reading scripture. Lets say you read and I read. Who is right. We cannot both be right. Because there is only one truth. not different truths for different people. thats why I disagree with you when you say we are all guided differently. that can’t be. that would mean different truths. There is only one. You say that you are guided by the HS on your own. I disagree with that. That would mean the HS separates us. that would mean the HS lies. That is impossible. That is why there can be only one truth for all people. We are all Gods people to come together and Worship one God. One Bread, One Body, One God. One Holy Spirit guiding all to ONE TRUTH. Not many.

God said there is ONE Truth, One Church. The 12 Apostles started ONE Church. IT was led by Peter. The CC can prove from succession it is that Church.

Tell me who founded your Church.

The LDS is Joseph Smith.

Protestants down the line you can read up and see who the founder. Its always a man.

But when you come to the RCC its Founder is Jesus Christ built on Peter. Jesus promised Peter the advocate the HS to lead him. It came at Pentecost. I jive you not. Read it its in there. Just like Prego. ITS IN THERE

 

[Publisher]

But see thats the thing its not MY interpretation its the teachings of Christ. I do not have the authority to agree or disagree but the leaders of the Church can. They were promised the advocate remember the HS to define scripture. Not us!

Scripture tells us God gave different gifts to different people. Mine nor yours was to define scripture. The leaders of the Church are guided by the HS to do that. That is another reason we can be sure that we have the truth. Because there is only one truth. Not yours not mine, but Gods. And it comes from the CHurch being led by the HS.

Didn’t it ever amaze you how every church has their own way of reading scripture. Lets say you read and I read. Who is right. We cannot both be right. Because there is only one truth. not different truths for different people. thats why I disagree with you when you say we are all guided differently. that can’t be. that would mean different truths. There is only one. You say that you are guided by the HS on your own. I disagree with that. That would mean the HS separates us. that would mean the HS lies. That is impossible. That is why there can be only one truth for all people. We are all Gods people to come together and Worship one God. One Bread, One Body, One God. One Holy Spirit guiding all to ONE TRUTH. Not many.

God said there is ONE Truth, One Church. The 12 Apostles started ONE Church. IT was led by Peter. The CC can prove from succession it is that Church.

Tell me who founded your Church.

The LDS is Joseph Smith.

Protestants down the line you can read up and see who the founder. Its always a man.

But when you come to the RCC its Founder is Jesus Christ built on Peter. Jesus promised Peter the advocate the HS to lead him. It came at Pentecost. I jive you not. Read it its in there. Just like Prego. ITS IN THERE

I admire your beliefs…and your loyalty to your institutional church…I really do…I do not share in them with you.

I could tell you that the Church I belong to was founded by Christ on the day of Pentacost…but you would reject that I dare say. George Fox organized Societies of believers and in the various Meeting houses the Church met together in waiting expectancy for Christ Himself to minister to them.

You may believe your institutional church was founded by Christ…that does not sway me in the least…I admire your beliefs…I do not find that they “speak to my condition”…I rejoice with you that they speak to yours.

The sacred story built up around your church is a facinating read…I do not find it grounded in fact…from what I read there’s a lot of “legend”…“tradition”…and “myth”…there is always a grain of truth in most legends, traditions and myths…if you have found within your sacred story an avenue of Truth…wonderful. For me however the simple message of the Light as revealed in Christ among Friends make the most sense and is in keeping with the Nature and Being of God in Christ more than any other religious line of thought I have found…it is not truth either…but the vehicle of Truth as revealed experientially and immediately by the Light Within.

 

[rinnie]

We want to beleve there is more. It helps us get past the fear of death. and in my experience, its not just the rich who constantly seek more! Poor, middle class, rich, whatever, human beings always want more than they have. How do you think the notion of heaven came to be in the first place? We want more and “heaven” became the place where we can “have it all”, where our desires are met, where we get eternal life, etc.

Yes I agree it does not matter we want more more more. You know why. I will share with you the secret of Life. My Papa told me.

You will never ever have complete happpiness in this world. Did you know that? Never no matter what you have you will want more. Do you know why?

Jesus Christ. Until you are united with Jesus CHrist you will never have complete happiness. So forget it, its not happening in this world. Thats for the next. Complete happinness. And that in itself is proof that there is a God. Because something in this world is always missing. Until you meet God face to face you will never experience COMPLETE HAPPINESS!!

 

[rinnie]

I admire your beliefs…and your loyalty to your institutional church…I really do…I do not share in them with you.

I could tell you that the Church I belong to was founded by Christ on the day of Pentacost…but you would reject that I dare say.

You may believe your institutional church was founded by Christ…that does not sway me in the least…I admire your beliefs…I do not find that they “speak to my condition”…I rejoice with you that they speak to yours.

The sacred story built up around your church is a facinating read…I do not find it grounded in fact…from what I read there’s a lot of “legend”…“tradition”…and “myth”…there is always a grain of truth in most legends, traditions and myths…if you have found within your sacred story an avenue of Truth…wonderful.

You are right I would reject it. Because if it was you could prove Apostolic Succession. I didn’t make it that way Jesus did.

Hey gotta roll, my husband is going to kill me. I told him a hour ago I would be only 5 minutes.

 

[Agripa]

Yes I agree it does not matter we want more more more. You know why. I will share with you the secret of Life. My Papa told me.

You will never ever have complete happpiness in this world. Did you know that? Never no matter what you have you will want more. Do you know why?

Jesus Christ. Until you are united with Jesus CHrist you will never have complete happiness. So forget it, its not happening in this world. Thats for the next. Complete happinness. And that in itself is proof that there is a God. Because something in this world is always missing. Until you meet God face to face you will never experience COMPLETE HAPPINESS!!

Same message of all religions! Look at the Hindus - Nirvana is the perfect state - the state of no desire. But once we understand this, then we see a value in all religions and we move away from the need to enforce our religion over the others.

 

[cheese_sdc]

i took Cheese to be saying that the whole mess of religions are superstitious claptrap

Superstitious? Yes. Claptrap? No.

 

[Publisher]

You are right I would reject it. Because if it was you could prove Apostolic Succession. I didn’t make it that way Jesus did.

Hey gotta roll, my husband is going to kill me. I told him a hour ago I would be only 5 minutes.

“We live in that virtue of life and power of which the apostles lived.” We share the same Spirit as they and experience the same Risen Christ. In our understanding THAT is apostolic succession…to recieve direct authority not based on lineage of pedigree…or lack there of…but based on Christ Himself.

 

[jericho777]

Watch out you don’t get taken with their teachings.

I have found that most JW’s that used to be Catholics were usually poorly catechized in their Catholic faith. When I was a JW and met ones that used to Catholic, many times they couldn’t correctly explain Catholic teachings.

Thanks T More,
The Lord is active in our dialog and we are making progress. God is faithful and gracious to all sinners.

 

[jericho777]

Great, you stick around for one year. Not everyday of course. And P.M me in one year from now and let me know what you really learned. I have faith in our teachings, and in alot of these people here. They are good People jer. So ask everything, and learn the truth. Thats more than anyone can ask of you. Hope to see you around and hope I can help.

I’ll be here Lord willing!

 

[PJM]

=rinnie;6247315]Now there you go. Was that not easy. You said what you believe. Now I disagee with you. Now its my turn to call you on something Okay!

Now answer me this. Why did Jesus leave us the Church? Why did Jesus say he was the Church? And why did Jesus build the Church on Peter. Why did he say you are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hades will not prevail?

Why would he leave us a Church, tell us the church would never fail, say he was sending the advocate the Holy Spirit to lead the Church, say it was the Pilar of Truth? What was the purpose of this? If he was going to guide us each individually why does the word of God not say this. And why build his Church on Peter and why make the Church the living Christ?

Well done,

May I add a postscript?

**Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, **[singular]B] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

John 14: 16 ** And I [Jesus] I will pray the Father,* and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,*** even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

John 17: 14- 17 14 I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. * 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [The prayer of Jesus] 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

 

[PJM]

=cheese_sdc;6247684]Superstitious? Yes. Claptrap? No.

“Agripa,”

I can’t seem to place the name. Is it from “Heinnrich Aggrippa?”

 

[PJM]

=Agripa;6247398]Why is it so terrible to think there is just nothingness?

Afterall, you will be dead, your nerves and awareness will be gone. You simply will not exist nor be aware of anything. How is that so terrible? Yuo will not regret or feel anything.

Indeed, BUT ones SOUL LIVES FOREVER [which is a really long time:thumbsup:]

 

[rinnie]

“We live in that virtue of life and power of which the apostles lived.” We share the same Spirit as they and experience the same Risen Christ. In our understanding THAT is apostolic succession…to recieve direct authority not based on lineage of pedigree…or lack there of…but based on Christ Himself.

Do not get me wrong I commend you for you Love for our Lord Jesus Christ, and for the teachings of the Apostles that you do accept and imitate.

But what about the Sacraments? How do you feel that you can ignore them and get around them. What I am trying to say is Jesus told his Apostles how they are to be done. The Sacraments have been followed since Jesus. What I am asking is who said you do not have to do them? THats as simple and easy as I can put it. Please understand no disrespect in any manner. I just cannot understand how you get around them.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

Friend,

Why aren’t you a Catholic?

I was brought up Catholic, was baptized, went through Catechism, went to Catholic school, was confirmed, went to Confession, received Holy Communion, and attended Mass regularly, (even as an Alter Boy for a while). But as I got older, it never really stuck.