Why Not?

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Not really, Agnosticism isn’t a reasonable position.
Do you have a reason for that or is that the extent of your argument?

I would argue that agnosticism, for me, is the only reasonable position regarding spirituality. I have experienced nothing that would lead me to believe in a particular deity, but I have also experienced nothing that would lead me to believe no such deity could possibly exist. How is that an unreasonable position?

Keep in mind that spirituality appears subjective. I wouldn’t call someone unreasonable for believing in the Catholic god if that god somehow assured said individual that he/she/it does, indeed, exist. The only 100% unreasonable position, then, is atheism.
 
Do you have a reason for that or is that the extent of your argument?

I would argue that agnosticism, for me, is the only reasonable position regarding spirituality. I have experienced nothing that would lead me to believe in a particular deity, but I have also experienced nothing that would lead me to believe no such deity could possibly exist. How is that an unreasonable position?

Keep in mind that spirituality appears subjective. I wouldn’t call someone unreasonable for believing in the Catholic god if that god somehow assured said individual that he/she/it does, indeed, exist. The only 100% unreasonable position, then, is atheism.
A lack of knowledge (which is what agnostic means) is quite counterintuitive to the act of reason. By that argument having no opinion on whether the Solar system is heliocentric or not due to the lack of direct observation, is also a reasonable stance.

Most agnostics I have known are such due to their refusal to reason out these matters, rather than having arrived there using reason.
 
A lack of knowledge (which is what agnostic means) is quite counterintuitive to the act of reason. By that argument having no opinion on whether the Solar system is heliocentric or not due to the lack of direct observation, is also a reasonable stance.

Most agnostics I have known are such due to their refusal to reason out these matters, rather than having arrived there using reason.
Are you suggesting that there is an absolute way of knowing that a deity exists and that, furthermore, it is possible to ascertain, through reason, which specific deity it is? If you can’t, then I really don’t understand how my position is unreasonable. Your correlation between agnosticism and a lack of understanding of details regarding the universe is pedantic. They are not the same. One appears impossible to reasonably understand (by that I mean, impossible without an act of faith) and the other requires ignorance of science. How exactly are they related? That’s like saying agnosticism is an unreasonable position because it is also unreasonable to not believe peanut butter has peanuts in it.
 
We know that God said: “I will not violate My covenant or alter what My lips have uttered” and that He also said trough His servant: "I know that you [God] can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted". The LORD also said: “The soul that sins shall die”. We also read in Genesis 3:22-24: And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Weren’t their souls already living forever? Why would they need to eat from the tree of life if their souls were already immortal?
Cristian Hellooooooooooooo. Jesus Christ, remember the Cross, the Tree of life. Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life, remember??? He was nailed to the Cross and took away DEATH remember, by his death and resurrection he set us free. Remember.

Think about it, what did Jesus do for those 3 days. He went down to hades to release the souls. Death of a soul means sin. Now think about this. It may ring a bell. This is my body and blood that has been given up for you. Whoever eats this bread and drinks this blood will have ETERNAL LIFE. Get it! Do you see what I am saying. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. He took away death of the soul, by giving us Baptsim that released us from Orignal Sin of the Soul. Then he came here and forgave sin. Then he gave his Apostles that right to forgive sin. Remember you are Peter, the keys to the kingdom, what you hold bound here is bound in heaven. Etc. IT all ties in together.
 
I am not a believer in the RCC because I find to many contradictions between what the church says and what is in the scriptures (PLEASE…don’t start on the Mormon: BoM and the Bible thing:doh2:: ) Though I respect the many devote RCC members.😃
Okay, That is fine. But in order to say something you must back it up, Thats only Fair. Noe you said that you find MANY contradictions between the Church and scripture.

Could you SHOW me Just ONE of the many you proclaim?😃
 
While there was a cult of Emperopr worship, Christ was not an Emperor, and Augustus didn’t do anything, he just didn’t stand in the way of a cult dedicated to him.

And Constantine didn’t vote at Nicea, he simply sat in. And even if he did, why would he want to diefy Christ? The fact is it is written quite clearly within the Gospels that Christ himself proclaimed his godhood.QUOTE]

You miss my point. First, Augustus did indeed declare himself a god and in fact there was much debate of this action in the Roman Senate for the Senators at the time beleived they alone had such power to confer that title. Second, I never said Christ was an Emporer. Rather, Christ became an important figure to Romans and Rome accepted the Christian cult as a state sanctioned religion. Often, Rome would look back in its history and declare those it deemed great leaders as gods or demi gods. This too is simply a fact and the accounts of several Roman historians demonstrate this point.

And you should double check your history of Constantine’s actions at Nicea. He did indeed break the deadlock over the bishops’ debate as to the nature of Christ’s being. Thus, my point - a roman Emperor, following the tradition as firmly established by Augustus and other rulers, worked again to declare a human being a god.

My point is that declaring someone a god was not at all surprising. And remember too, none of the Gospels were written by Christ and at least three were written well after the disciples were all dead. So what finally got written was written by others not there and prone to the embelishments of history, time and imagination, all during a primitive, supersticious time!!

PS: I know a lot of Catholics think writing in the Greek is impressive when it comes to quoting the bible, but reallt, its just a language, written by falable men like any other language. :cool:
 
Do you have a reason for that or is that the extent of your argument?

I would argue that agnosticism, for me, is the only reasonable position regarding spirituality. I have experienced nothing that would lead me to believe in a particular deity, but I have also experienced nothing that would lead me to believe no such deity could possibly exist. How is that an unreasonable position?

Keep in mind that spirituality appears subjective. I wouldn’t call someone unreasonable for believing in the Catholic god if that god somehow assured said individual that he/she/it does, indeed, exist. The only 100% unreasonable position, then, is atheism.
If atheism means what its roots would imply (“a” “theism”, without gods), how is it unreasonable?
 
I don’t understand why you think that’s an answer to my question.
I’ll answer it: One cannot know that there are no gods, empirically at least.

Certain knowledge that X does not exist is not required to not believe that X exists.
 
I’ll answer it: One cannot know that there are no gods, empirically at least.

Certain knowledge that X does not exist is not required to not believe that X exists.
So belief based not on knowledge is reasonable? I’m not sure that makes sense. You seem to be arguing a separate point, which is that because there doesn’t appear to be empirical evidence supporting the existence of any deity(s), it’s not odd that one would choose to believe there are none.

That said, I appreciate you engaging me in this debate.
 
How is one to know there are no gods?
Easy the teachings of Jesus Christ. There are no gods. There is only ONE GOD. There are false gods, as Jesus Christ told us, But only one True God. I learned that when I was like 4:D:p

Or if you want to do it in your twisted way of thinking, we know there are many gods that are false. Because Jesus told us! He said stay the heck away from em!😃

He said stay out of the dark and into the light!!!
 
???

So there are no rites or rituals that the CC beliieves one must participate in AND claim to be the sole arbiter of those rituals?

The CC does not expect it’s members to follow what it says BECAUSE it says it?

The CC does not expect it’s members to be compliant and accept it’s teachings without dicention?

The CC does not require a creed to be recited?

What part of my vision is “distorted”?
That you cannot see these teachings of Christ for what they really are.😦

That what we participate in is what Jesus showed and taught us.
That we follow the Teachings of the Church because it is led by the HS,
That Yes we obey Jesus because who are we to disobey him,
That Creed that you seem to have a problem with are all in the bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ all wrapped up in a prayer,
 
So belief based not on knowledge is reasonable? I’m not sure that makes sense. You seem to be arguing a separate point, which is that because there doesn’t appear to be empirical evidence supporting the existence of any deity(s), it’s not odd that one would choose to believe there are none.

That said, I appreciate you engaging me in this debate.
Well, it’s more the lack of belief. For example, I don’t believe in ghosts because there’s no credible evidence (at least that I’ve seen) to show that they exist.

And no problem!
How do you define atheism?
I’d define atheism as not believing in a deity or deities. I also usually break it down into strong and weak atheism, where strong is the positive belief that there is no deity, and weak is the lack of belief in a deity.
 
Far differently from Agnosticism. Despite the fact religious people often lump Agnostics in with Atheists, they are different.

Atheists simply say there is no God and then go on to explain some other way the universe came into being or some other way we established and enforce moral codes and notions of right living.

Agnostics, however, simply say “I dont know” if there is a God. There could be or there could not be a God. I have no real proof either way and because whatever God may be, its far too big for the mere mortal minds to even contemplate. We are then free to create moral codes and philosphies of living based on simply the benefit that moral living confers upon people trapped in a thing called life.

Like Atheiests, however, an Agnositc will be suspect of men, the writings and religious institutions of men and the stories of men that purport to know and define God which Agnositcs will view as simply a contrivance that allows some men to control vast numbers of other men. 🤷
 
Far differently from Agnosticism. Despite the fact religious people often lump Agnostics in with Atheists, they are different.

Atheists simply say there is no God and then go on to explain some other way the universe came into being or some other way we established and enforce moral codes and notions of right living.

Agnostics, however, simply say “I dont know” if there is a God. There could be or there could not be a God. I have no real proof either way and because whatever God may be, its far too big for the mere mortal minds to even contemplate. We are then free to create moral codes and philosphies of living based on simply the benefit that moral living confers upon people trapped in a thing called life.

Like Atheiests, however, an Agnositc will be suspect of men, the writings and religious institutions of men and the stories of men that purport to know and define God which Agnositcs will view as simply a contrivance that allows some men to control vast numbers of other men. 🤷
Thank-you. You have showed me something I never knew. I always thought you either believed and were Christian, and didn’t so were an Atheist. I never saw an In-between way before.

You have showed me that there is only one thing that I can do. Is pray for you to receive the Grace from God somehow, some way. I hope you do not mind.😃 Again thank you for being so kind and honest in your response.
 
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