Why Only *Part of the Mosaic Law?

[happilycatholic]

I’m curious to hear from anyone on this.

Did you ever wonder why SDAs choose to adhere to only part of the Mosaic Law? Such as unclean meats? Not only that, they claim their doctrine on unclean meat is about health. Where did God tell us that eating meat, setting aside a particular form of meat, was bad for us?

When in actuality Mosaic Law gives very detailed instructions on being “clean and unclean” which actually refers to being pure or impure. These are found in Lev. 11-18 and range from pregnant or menstrating women to skin diseases and dead animals.

Let us not forget that a huge part of that Law was how to remedy the impurity should it happen. This includes ritual washing of the body and animal sacrifice. This too “has been nailed to the cross” according to any SDA, but what about the actual impurity? Was that not nailed to the cross?

SDAs seem to have pulled part of the Law and decided they would create a tradition from that.

My question for discussion is this: Why?

 

[happilycatholic]

I know, I know!!

It’s sad. I’m answering my own dang OP.

It’s because it’s an Ellen G. White doctrine! I’ve noticed that the SDA’s on this forum are completely reluctant to discuss her when it comes to their faith. One poster has even denied that they consider her a prophet.

Gosh, we as catholics don’t get that defensive about the Pope.

Sincerely, I’m not trying to attack the faith, but in trying to ask quetions I’ve gotten this reluctancy on their part to even acknowlege her as relevent to them.

Curious. Very curious.

 

[AshleyBelle]

I’m sorry to seem pessimistic here… I really am more optimistic in real life…

But it seems like so many of our protestant brothers and sisters who are visiting these forums…aren’t really here to talk about what catholic beliefs or share their beliefs. Most are here to either “bash” our beliefs, and tell us they are right (without a real explanation) while continueing to give us a massive amount of “reasons” why we’re wrong.

We end up explaining away all of what we believe and why we believe it…and rather than an equal attempt at ecumenism, we’re met only with opposition and often hatred.

There have been some wonderful people on these forums who really are looking for ecumenical dialogue! And I LOVE real conversations…where people truly share what they believe in.

But I’m a little frustrated with the one sided conversations lately… We spend so much time defending the catholic faith…How about a little defense from the people attacking us constantly???

Ok..off my soapbox lol! This turned into more of a vent but maybe I just needed to get it off my chest! =P

There really are some wonderful, faithful protestants here that I love talking to I’m venting about the people who are less than friendly though

 

[happilycatholic]

I’m sorry to seem pessimistic here… I really am more optimistic in real life…

But it seems like so many of our protestant brothers and sisters who are visiting these forums…aren’t really here to talk about what catholic beliefs or share their beliefs. Most are here to either “bash” our beliefs, and tell us they are right (without a real explanation) while continueing to give us a massive amount of “reasons” why we’re wrong.

We end up explaining away all of what we believe and why we believe it…and rather than an equal attempt at ecumenism, we’re met only with opposition and often hatred.

There have been some wonderful people on these forums who really are looking for ecumenical dialogue! And I LOVE real conversations…where people truly share what they believe in.

But I’m a little frustrated with the one sided conversations lately… We spend so much time defending the catholic faith…How about a little defense from the people attacking us constantly???

Ok…off my soapbox lol! This turned into more of a vent but maybe I just needed to get it off my chest! =P

There really are some wonderful, faithful protestants here that I love talking to I’m venting about the people who are less than friendly though

Hey! Good to hear from you.

I know what you mean. I think this thread was a way for me to vent too. It’s very hard to sit back and, like you say, defend and defend and then when our questions get hard, they back completely off.

Like this thread, not one SDA has come on here to defend this doctrine. My charity runs thin.

Pray for it to be replenished. But I’m weary

 

[Ruthie]

Having said that, with the lack of sanitation in those days, many of the kosher laws did help protect against some diseases. I remember seeing something a doctor wrote about it, but that’s as far as memory goes.

But, hey, plenty of sects other than the SDA try to hold on to some of the old Mosaic laws. And some sects think that, by clinging to the 10 Commandments, we’re doing the same thing!

Why only part of the Mosaic law? Because nobody wants to deal with those messy animal sacrifices… and everybody knows washing won’t cure leprosy… and the Ark of the Covenant has been lost, so no need to deal with that part… and because churches are better than tents, anyway… I could go on. And on.

One of the biggest fights I have with myself, when trying to be charitable, is to avoid being patronizing and/or condescending.

Hey, it’s hard to be humble when you’re right!

Struggling with humility,

Ruthie

 

[happilycatholic]

And some sects think that, by clinging to the 10 Commandments, we’re doing the same thing! Ruthie

Hi Ruthie:

It’s funny you should mention the part of your post that I’ve included here. I’ve been debating my heart out with two former SDAs, now catholic, about the Commandments.

They are under the impression that Christians, including catholics, are no longer bound by the Commandments.

They also do not believe the Fourth Commandment commands us to go to mass on Sunday. Their position is that the Fourth/Third (depending on which version you’re looking at) Commandment commands us to Keep the Sabbath Holy so we cannot be bound by it. And since we’re not bound by that one, we’re not bound by any of them.

 

[Ruthie]

Their position is that the Fourth/Third (depending on which version you’re looking at) Commandment commands us to Keep the Sabbath Holy so we cannot be bound by it. And since we’re not bound by that one, we’re not bound by any of them.

indeed! Do they not keep the Sabbath holy? I thought that was the whole point of being a Sabbath Keeper (as one of our SDA posters signs himself)?

Of course, who’s to say that your friends are not “cafeteria SDAs”?

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[bpbasilphx]

It’s because it’s an Ellen G. White doctrine! I’ve noticed that the SDA’s on this forum are completely reluctant to discuss her when it comes to their faith. One poster has even denied that they consider her a prophet.

Whoever says this either doesn’t know what the SDA Church actually teaches or is deliberately lying, because when I attended the SDA’s “Revelation Seminar”, it was made clear that by “Spirit of Prophecy” they do not mean the Holy Spirit, but the ravings of EGW.

 

[happilycatholic]

It’s because it’s an Ellen G. White doctrine! I’ve noticed that the SDA’s on this forum are completely reluctant to discuss her when it comes to their faith. One poster has even denied that they consider her a prophet.

Whoever says this either doesn’t know what the SDA Church actually teaches or is deliberately lying, because when I attended the SDA’s “Revelation Seminar”, it was made clear that by “Spirit of Prophecy” they do not mean the Holy Spirit, but the ravings of EGW.

I know! It’s like she’s taboo now.

I think they are trying to move in a different direction altoghether. But you know, if you look on the general conference official website their fundemental beliefs, number 18 is about her gift of prophecy.

I’m not sure how they can deny that the church is founded on that when it says it right there.

Who knows. I’m glad we don’t have to deny who founded our Church! God is Great!!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I’m
Did you ever wonder why SDAs choose to adhere to only part of the Mosaic Law? Such as unclean meats?

few Christians told me laws found in OT were applicable for Jews only for a certain period. So , Christians are not supposed to follow any of the Mosaic Law , is this correct?

 

[ralphinal]

Salaam/peace

few Christians told me laws found in OT were applicable for Jews only for a certain period. So , Christians are not supposed to follow any of the Mosaic Law , is this correct?

Sort of. The majority of the Mosaic law had to do with Temple Sacrafices and being clean for them. With the Crucifixion of Christ, those were of no need. The food laws were ended by Christ as well, with confirmation by God through St. Peter. There were laws concerning crime and punishment, but we understand that is to be left to the secular government. The laws specific to the covenant, such as circumcision, were replaced with the Sacraments. Punishments for sin and judging sin is left to God, per Jesus’s commands. Basically, that leaves the Ten Commandments, which were actually made more all-encompassing by Jesus.

 

[happilycatholic]

Salaam/peace

few Christians told me laws found in OT were applicable for Jews only for a certain period. So , Christians are not supposed to follow any of the Mosaic Law , is this correct?

This can be a very complicated issue with very complicated answers. The short answer is that because the Mosaic Laws were part ceremonial and part moral duty, the event of Christ’s coming, crucifixion and resurrection did a way with the ceremonial laws such as the purity laws (clean and unclean laws), circumcision, and lots of others.

My curiosity lies with the doctrine of clean and unclean meats. Because SDAs claim it is about health, but in the OT it was about purity.

It is actually a doctrine founded on Ellen G. White’s “health reform vision” which I guess if you’re SDA that’s fine, but I wonder why she picked just that particular one out of several purity laws.

??

 

[ralphinal]

This can be a very complicated issue with very complicated answers. The short answer is that because the Mosaic Laws were part ceremonial and part moral duty, the event of Christ’s coming, crucifixion and resurrection did a way with the ceremonial laws such as the purity laws (clean and unclean laws), circumcision, and lots of others.

My curiosity lies with the doctrine of clean and unclean meats. Because SDAs claim it is about health, but in the OT it was about purity.

It is actually a doctrine founded on Ellen G. White’s “health reform vision” which I guess if you’re SDA that’s fine, but I wonder why she picked just that particular one out of several purity laws.

??

A jewish group did some studies on the laws and came up with a differnt answer. It turns out that a pig eats more food than it produces in a climate like Isreal. A camel is worth more as a beast of burdon than one of food. Now, shellfish are risky if not handled with care, but they are also hard to come by inland anyway. To eat one if you were in Jerusalem would be taking your life into your own hands.

 

[happilycatholic]

A jewish group did some studies on the laws and came up with a differnt answer. It turns out that a pig eats more food than it produces in a climate like Isreal. A camel is worth more as a beast of burdon than one of food. Now, shellfish are risky if not handled with care, but they are also hard to come by inland anyway. To eat one if you were in Jerusalem would be taking your life into your own hands.

Thanks for your answer Ralphinal.

Okay, so purity means pure of disease or illness?

Then why the same clean/unclean doctrines about menstrating women and women who have just given birth? Is there a connection will disease/illness there?

 

[ralphinal]

Okay, so purity means pure of disease or illness?

Then why the same clean/unclean doctrines about menstrating women and women who have just given birth? Is there a connection will disease/illness there?

Oh, no, that is not what I mean. I have always seen it said that God forbade pork because of illnesses associated with it. That may not be the case. The easiest way to forbid something is to tie it to a prohibition on worship.

The whole clean/unclean about menstratiing is beyond me. I have no idea why that was prohibited.

Do the SDA require the use of the pool?

 

[happilycatholic]

Oh, no, that is not what I mean. I have always seen it said that God forbade pork because of illnesses associated with it. That may not be the case. The easiest way to forbid something is to tie it to a prohibition on worship.

The whole clean/unclean about menstratiing is beyond me. I have no idea why that was prohibited.

Do the SDA require the use of the pool?

I may just show my ignorance here but here goes…

When you say, “use of the pool” are you speaking of ritualistic washing?

 

[ralphinal]

I may just show my ignorance here but here goes…

When you say, “use of the pool” are you speaking of ritualistic washing?

Yes. I cannot think of the technical name for it. It is the bath where women are supposed to bath post cycle.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I know, I know!!

It’s sad. I’m answering my own dang OP.

It’s because it’s an Ellen G. White doctrine! I’ve noticed that the SDA’s on this forum are completely reluctant to discuss her when it comes to their faith. One poster has even denied that they consider her a prophet.

Gosh, we as catholics don’t get that defensive about the Pope.

Sincerely, I’m not trying to attack the faith, but in trying to ask quetions I’ve gotten this reluctancy on their part to even acknowlege her as relevent to them.

Curious. Very curious.

You are absolutely correct in the first post and here. White needed to something to distinguish her cause from the rest of Protestantism, so she introduced a few distinct doctrines that would make her brand of Gospel unique.

The official SDA page explicitly says they consider White a Prophet (Fundamental Beliefs #18), that list also mentions they abstain from “unclean foods” described in Lev 11:1ff, which as you note is Mosaic Covenant only.

 

[happilycatholic]

Yes. I cannot think of the technical name for it. It is the bath where women are supposed to bath post cycle.

No, I’m almost positive they don’t. That brings me to wonder why not? The Jews do the same, practice the law but not the remedy for the transgression. These are the things that puzzle me.

This is for anyone reading this:

Christ’s resurrection washed away the need for the ceremonial laws so, does anyone here know why they still practice some of them? Are these some of the 613 Laws of Moses?

 

[happilycatholic]

You are absolutely correct in the first post and here. White needed to something to distinguish her cause from the rest of Protestantism, so she introduced a few distinct doctrines that would make her brand of Gospel unique.

The official SDA page explicitly says they consider White a Prophet (Fundamental Beliefs #18), that list also mentions they abstain from “unclean foods” described in Lev 11:1ff, which as you note is Mosaic Covenant only.

That has been my position all along and with all due respect, though they were practicing the doctrine of Saturday worship before her, I think maybe that particular doctrine is simply another way to set themselves apart. In fact isn’t that why they call themselves “The Remnant Church” and then say that the proof is manifested in her prophetic abilities?

I mean no disrespect but if I were SDA I would be worried my whole Saturday worship doctrine is built on an untruth to satisfy one’s attempt to be different from everyone else and maybe even gain fame.