H
happilycatholic
Guest
Which parable are you speaking of? The sower’s parable? What?
- Status
U
underdog
Guest
Just about all parables in general. There is a convesation with the disciples and the parables in the Bible.
H
happilycatholic
Guest
Well, you first you refer to"this particular parable" and Jesus explaining it to them, then you make a very vague statement like the one above. I’m just trying to understand what you mean.
Okay, but Jesus never explained the parable and in fact gave them yet another parable to “explain” his reason for speaking to the people in parables. Hence the parable of the Sower. That would tell me Jesus was confident that the Apostles did understand parables.
But I guess that’s not important. I’m just wondering where it implies that the Apostles didn’t understand Jesus’ parables. The only thing the Scripture implies in Matthew 13 is that they didn’t understand why Jesus was using parables to teach, not that they didn’t understand the parables.
U
underdog
Guest
Don’t you think Jesus’ answer to why He spoke in parables apply to all parables that He used?
H
happilycatholic
Guest
Yes, but we are talking about whether the Apostles understood the parables. We know why he spoke in parables because the very first sentence of the OP’s first post tells us why. We’ve subsequently answered that question even so.
My comment has to do with the following statement you made:
“The Bible. On this particular parable, Jesus had to explain the parable to them in plain language. If you don’t believe me, check out your Bible.”
You asked me to check my Bible, I did and came up with no explaination at all; only another parable actually explaining why he was using parables. That further negates your position that the Apostles didn’t understand parables.
So again my question is:
Where in the Bible is it implied that the Apostles didn’t understand the parables? It was your comment, I’m just trying to follow you.
U
underdog
Guest
Please look at the bigger context. It is the work of God the Holy Spirit to illuminate spiritual truths to our minds and heart through our entire christian life.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36 As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, [2] 43 and he took it and ate before them.
44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 **Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, **46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
H
happilycatholic
Guest
How does this relate to the topic of parables? How does this answer my question?
Never mind.
C
Ceil-1
Guest
Good grief, Underdog. The “real” Underdog was humble. Not a good analogy, in my opinion. You should choose a name like Superman, or Batman, or, something like that.
The saints talk about objects of nature being analogies for their counterparts in the spiritual order. For instance, a boat being a symbol of the Church, and water being a symbol of the world. Baptism is dying to the world (symbolized by drowning).
The flood, as in Noah’s flood meaning the world (and its evil) will overtake and drown us, but, the ark, a boat, symbolic for the Church, will save us from being drowned.
The same symbolism could be used in the story of Jesus walking on the water (His mastery over the material world), and the storm at sea, with the waves hitting the little boat, threatening to overturn it, while Jesus is asleep in the boat. The Scriptures are full of those, and the meanings are infinite and can be contemplated indefinitely. I am not that eloquent in explaining what I mean, sorry.
The Scriptures are chock-full of these typologies, analogies and metaphors. Jesus seemed to use them as well. Only contemplative people who are inclined towards these spiritual things would be given the understanding to interpret them.
Some cultures, such as the oriental culture, love to use symbolism in their explanation of non-concrete things. Greek mythology is all about the personification of human attributes into these various gods. I think it makes it fun. Don’t you?
The saints talk about objects of nature being analogies for their counterparts in the spiritual order. For instance, a boat being a symbol of the Church, and water being a symbol of the world. Baptism is dying to the world (symbolized by drowning).
The flood, as in Noah’s flood meaning the world (and its evil) will overtake and drown us, but, the ark, a boat, symbolic for the Church, will save us from being drowned.
The same symbolism could be used in the story of Jesus walking on the water (His mastery over the material world), and the storm at sea, with the waves hitting the little boat, threatening to overturn it, while Jesus is asleep in the boat. The Scriptures are full of those, and the meanings are infinite and can be contemplated indefinitely. I am not that eloquent in explaining what I mean, sorry.
The Scriptures are chock-full of these typologies, analogies and metaphors. Jesus seemed to use them as well. Only contemplative people who are inclined towards these spiritual things would be given the understanding to interpret them.
Some cultures, such as the oriental culture, love to use symbolism in their explanation of non-concrete things. Greek mythology is all about the personification of human attributes into these various gods. I think it makes it fun. Don’t you?
U
underdog
Guest
I also saw Noah’s ark as a picture or type of Christ. Those who are in Christ will be rescue from the comming day of wrath. So, Roman Catholics will hide in the Roman Catholic Church, and other Christians will rest in their vital union with Christ. The Ark is a picture of Christ and not the Roman Catholic Church. All of the foreshadows and types in the OT point to Jesus Christ.
H
happilycatholic
Guest
No “denomination” can be separated from its “church”. Even individuals who choose to worship outside a church are denominations unto themselves. Non-denominationals, the same.
Just as the Roman Catholics are “hiding” in their church as you put it, so too are the ones that are “hiding” behind their denominations.
What you forget my friend is that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Body. So it is Christ. Where will you be hiding? By yourself? In some other denomination who claims to be the body of… whom?
I will stick with the Church. I feel safe “hiding” in the Catholic Church.
U
underdog
Guest
I know this is an extremely difficult concept for Roman Catholic Christians to grasp and undestand. It is not our membership into a particular Church within Christendom that saves sinners from the comming day of wrath. It is our vital union with Jesus Christ that saves us from the coming day of wrath. We are adopted into the body of Christ. The Roman Catholic Church is not exclusively the body of Christ. There are many who have been united to the living person of Jesus Christ through faith that are not Roman Catholic Christians. The living God, 2nd person of the Trinity is the head of the church universal made up of redeemned sinners. This is a spiritual reality and has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism. Do you think the Apostle Peter had a great love for the organized church or did Peter have a great love for the living Jesus Christ?
H
happilycatholic
Guest
See the part in red? This is where you go wrong. No, catholics don’t believe they are exclusively the body of Christ. They believe they AND other Christians are INclusively the Body of Christ.
We do NOT exclude non-catholics from the Body of Christ, you do and other Christians do. You do this by excluding yourself from the Church all on your own.
YOU are the one that set YOURSELF apart from catholics in your comment. I simply gave you my point of view which did NOT exclude any other Christian denomination. You did that yourself with your interpretation of catholic fundamentals.
You excluded catholics, not the other way around.
H
happilycatholic
Guest
You say this as if Jesus expected Peter to choose between He and the Church.
C
Ceil-1
Guest
Another analogy/metaphor is wine. He is the vine, we are the branches, wine is made from the fruit of the vine. Wine is a symbol of love. Jesus takes our empty jars and fills them with the love of God.
The world is the vineyard. God is the owner.
What are some others?
- Status