Why "practice" religion?

[PathDiagnosis]

For me, I haven’t given responses that fit what you just said because I didn’t quite understand that this is what you were saying.

Has anybody considered these things? I can’t speak for the rest, but I most certainly have.

As far as you not being here to bash Christianity, at least from my point of view, no worries, I don’t see that at all. You seem very respectful. And…maybe this is the wrong word…but yearning, hoping that somebody will come up with just the right thing. Because, I think, you really want to believe. (I say that as a good thing.)

But your first question was about the advantages of practicing religion. (I hope I didn’t say that wrong; it’s been awhile and I didn’t double check the original post.) Those are the kinds of things I’ve been trying to answer.

There are things I don’t say, because sometimes a person only wants to get just so personal on a message board, and some answers might reveal more than I want to about myself. I might try to tackle the things you said in your latest message, but I won’t have time for awhile. This week threatens to get hectic. If you want to PM me, feel free … but don’t worry if it takes a bit for me to get back to you.

I do hope somebody else can give good answers for your latest post.

Praying for you.

Maybe in two weeks there will be replies to my concern of the Catholic Church being what the anthropology and history of religion suggest: a human invention that survived natural selection at a social/cultural level.

I’m hopeful that someone of them will suffice for my objective quest in discerning if I should be religious. I doubt the vast majority of religious people consider the aforementioned concern(s). After all, it’s religion, it’s very different from anything else. Could it be because they are afraid of discovering that being religious is living a lie, even if it does “work” for them?

Peace

 

[Incomplete]

After all, it’s religion, it’s very different from anything else. Could it be because they are afraid of discovering that being religious is living a lie, even if it does “work” for them?

Peace

Now, this kind of thing is what makes you all of a sudden look like you have an agenda.

Some people (myself included) have looked hard at a lot of issues concerning religion. I think you’ll find a lot of people on these boards have. There are some works out there by former atheists, even scientists, who have, after years of searching, come to the conclusion that Christianity is true. Maybe those would be better places to look than message boards.

Saying the part I bolded comes across as belittling. I hope you don’t mean to sound that way.

 

[1voice]

I am afraid of everything you mentioned. Even if it doesn’t matter because I will be dead and unable (if it’s all not true and a soul does not exist) to realize it…it scares me.

I am also scared of “giving into” some possibly construct basic human need…kind of like not being “strong enough” to tough life out without religion. Maybe religion will make me feel inadequate…like I need to believe in something after this life…when I really don’t need to…I just think I need to. And I know religion isn’t about being happy (carry your cross, etc, etc, etc).

I’ve been reading down through the conversation. It’s interesting that you say that religion isnt about being happy. I think you hit on a key idea. I agree that religion can be a challenge … but my experience has been that my faith is the greatest source of peace for me… it is where I go to get strength … Im not talking about the strength that comes from tying the mind to something blindly … I’m talking about following a proven lifestyle that has led to multiple physical healings that I experienced in my body … as well as those of my friends and family. Way too many things have happened in my life as a direct result of prayer to rule it as coincidence. My friendship with God is more valuable to me than anything.
Taking on a responsibility and sticking with it when the going gets really tough is not in opposition to happiness. Paul the Apostle said that … because of his relationship with and understanding of God and God’s strategy and goals for mankind … any struggles and challenges were well worth it … He said that he counted it all joy. Because of the reward that awaits him … and awaits anyone that was willing to take on the challenges.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

Now, this kind of thing is what makes you all of a sudden look like you have an agenda.

Some people (myself included) have looked hard at a lot of issues concerning religion. I think you’ll find a lot of people on these boards have. There are some works out there by former atheists, even scientists, who have, after years of searching, come to the conclusion that Christianity is true. Maybe those would be better places to look than message boards.

Saying the part I bolded comes across as belittling. I hope you don’t mean to sound that way.

No. I did not meant to sound that way. It is one of the things I am afraid of if I do return to the practice of Catholicism. I forgot to add, I once discerned Priesthood heavily…so I think I have a fair grasp of Catholicism.

Scientists that concluded Christianity is true? Absolutely, but they may have just been in the right place at the right time. Scientists in non-Christian countries probably don’t conclude to that as much as scientists in Christian countries. I know of several famous Catholic scientists, including the one that proposed the Big Bang theory. Even so, there are Christian scientists that are not Catholic. Some of them are either right or wrong…and or now…it just seems more probably that all religion is wrong…or at least wrong in the sense that none of them are absolutely true…but a continuation of human invention/experience…as evidenced by the anthropology of history o religion.

Shouldn’t every single religious person think about these things? From my experience, the vast majority of don’ and still practice their religions almost without much objective or at least non-religious thought.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I’ve been reading down through the conversation. It’s interesting that you say that religion isnt about being happy. I think you hit on a key idea. I agree that religion can be a challenge … but my experience has been that my faith is the greatest source of peace for me… it is where I go to get strength … Im not talking about the strength that comes from tying the mind to something blindly … I’m talking about following a proven lifestyle that has led to multiple physical healings that I experienced in my body … as well as those of my friends and family. Way too many things have happened in my life as a direct result of prayer to rule it as coincidence. My friendship with God is more valuable to me than anything.
Taking on a responsibility and sticking with it when the going gets really tough is not in opposition to happiness. Paul the Apostle said that … because of his relationship with and understanding of God and God’s strategy and goals for mankind … any struggles and challenges were well worth it … He said that he counted it all joy. Because of the reward that awaits him … and awaits anyone that was willing to take on the challenges.

This response is like many others. It justifies religion for religion’s sake. Does the anthropology and history of religion bother you? Doesn’t it seem more probable that your religion is the product of human invention???..again see anthropology and history of religion and my suggestion that the evidence for Christ is a coincidence.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

Now, this kind of thing is what makes you all of a sudden look like you have an agenda.

Some people (myself included) have looked hard at a lot of issues concerning religion. I think you’ll find a lot of people on these boards have. There are some works out there by former atheists, even scientists, who have, after years of searching, come to the conclusion that Christianity is true. Maybe those would be better places to look than message boards.

Saying the part I bolded comes across as belittling. I hope you don’t mean to sound that way.

There are scientists that became Muslims and all sorts of other religions, not just Christianity.

 

[samiam1611]

I agree with you about religion being a human invention. If God exists, I think either deism, pandeism, or pantheism more likely to be true than Christianity. These religions don’t make a lot of assertions about God, and are not reliant on revelation; that is what I like about them.

Are you a spiritual person? Do you believe in a soul? What about an afterlife? Would it be fair to say you are discontent with your agnosticism? If so, why? It cannot be proven or disproven if God exists, so I think you should be content to say . Agnosticism, apatheism, and weak atheism/agnostic atheism are the most down to earth and less “invented” positions on the matter IMO.

 

[Incomplete]

No. I did not meant to sound that way. It is one of the things I am afraid of if I do return to the practice of Catholicism. I forgot to add, I once discerned Priesthood heavily…so I think I have a fair grasp of Catholicism.

Scientists that concluded Christianity is true? Absolutely, but they may have just been in the right place at the right time. Scientists in non-Christian countries probably don’t conclude to that as much as scientists in Christian countries. I know of several famous Catholic scientists, including the one that proposed the Big Bang theory. Even so, there are Christian scientists that are not Catholic. Some of them are either right or wrong…and or now…it just seems more probably that all religion is wrong…or at least wrong in the sense that none of them are absolutely true…but a continuation of human invention/experience…as evidenced by the anthropology of history o religion.

Shouldn’t every single religious person think about these things? From my experience, the vast majority of don’ and still practice their religions almost without much objective or at least non-religious thought.

I’m not certain what you mean by “this is one of the things I’m afraid of if I do return to the practice of Catholicism.”

My point about scientists is that it might help you to read some of their works, not just the ones from years ago but current scientists.

You worry too much about being wrong. The thing is, you can’t know if you are right or wrong with the certainty you want until you die. So read, study, it’s a life-long process. Go with the preponderance of the evidence.

I think you won’t get the type of discussion you are looking for with this thread, since your title was about practicing religion. That’s why people tell you the benefits they get from practicing it. What you seem to really be looking for is evidence that God exists. That might be worth you starting another thread (or looking through previous ones) if you haven’t already.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I agree with you about religion being a human invention. If God exists, I think either deism, pandeism, or pantheism more likely to be true than Christianity. These religions don’t make a lot of assertions about God, and are not reliant on revelation; that is what I like about them.

Are you a spiritual person? Do you believe in a soul? What about an afterlife? Would it be fair to say you are discontent with your agnosticism? If so, why? It cannot be proven or disproven if God exists, so I think you should be content to say . Agnosticism, apatheism, and weak atheism/agnostic atheism are the most down to earth and less “invented” positions on the matter IMO.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone, at caast ones in the US that observe it.

I consider myself apathetic to religious and spiritual matters. I don’t feel like I have a “God shaped/religion shaped” hole in my “heart”, whatever that means, I don’t get it. I’m just trying to objectively understand religious behavior. I’m trying to be open to being religious.

I agree with the bolded statement!

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I’m not certain what you mean by “this is one of the things I’m afraid of if I do return to the practice of Catholicism.”

My point about scientists is that it might help you to read some of their works, not just the ones from years ago but current scientists.

You worry too much about being wrong. The thing is, you can’t know if you are right or wrong with the certainty you want until you die. So read, study, it’s a life-long process. Go with the preponderance of the evidence.

I think you won’t get the type of discussion you are looking for with this thread, since your title was about practicing religion. That’s why people tell you the benefits they get from practicing it. What you seem to really be looking for is evidence that God exists. That might be worth you starting another thread (or looking through previous ones) if you haven’t already.

Happy Thanksgiving!! See response #178.

Preponderance of evidence? So far I’m sticking with what we know about human civilization{(s) from history and anthropology, especially the anthropology of religion. Such evidence suggest that all current religions are continuations of the phenomenon known as “religion”.

Christians, especially Catholics (and I applaud them, like St. Thomas Aquinas, etc) have developed apolegetics,etc defending their positions. Additionally, there is historical evidence that makes believing in the Resurrection at least someone reasonable. ***However, all of this is proportional to everything else humans developed: literacy, other religions ceasing to exist due to natural selection,etc,etc, etc. ***

I still think the evidence I mentioned (anthropology of religion, etc) dwarfs the historical evidence or Christianity. But, people come to different conclusions.

I worry about truth, at least in religion, because it is a big issue. Become Catholic and you must raise your kids Catholics, etc, etc, etc. Such claims about the Universe shouldn’t be taken lately. So far the most reasonable conclusion to me is that there may or may not be a God and Theism is a human invention, or at least more invented than say plain old religious apathy.

I will keeping learning from Catholic Answers Forums. It’s much easier to talk to Catholics than born again/bible thumper types.

Peace

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I’ve been reading down through the conversation. It’s interesting that you say that religion isnt about being happy. I think you hit on a key idea. I agree that religion can be a challenge … but my experience has been that my faith is the greatest source of peace for me… it is where I go to get strength … Im not talking about the strength that comes from tying the mind to something blindly … I’m talking about following a proven lifestyle that has led to multiple physical healings that I experienced in my body … as well as those of my friends and family. Way too many things have happened in my life as a direct result of prayer to rule it as coincidence. My friendship with God is more valuable to me than anything.
Taking on a responsibility and sticking with it when the going gets really tough is not in opposition to happiness. Paul the Apostle said that … because of his relationship with and understanding of God and God’s strategy and goals for mankind … any struggles and challenges were well worth it … He said that he counted it all joy. Because of the reward that awaits him … and awaits anyone that was willing to take on the challenges.

I also saw God working in my life ,etc. Certain events happened and I saw them as answers to prayer. I even went as far as believing God answered my prayers in ways I didn’t want him to. I look back and believe I was constructing miracles for myself.

Even if God is working in your life, non-Christians or Christians outside of your denomination claim the same thing and they are of different religions.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

I’m not certain what you mean by “this is one of the things I’m afraid of if I do return to the practice of Catholicism.”

My point about scientists is that it might help you to read some of their works, not just the ones from years ago but current scientists.

You worry too much about being wrong. The thing is, you can’t know if you are right or wrong with the certainty you want until you die. So read, study, it’s a life-long process. Go with the preponderance of the evidence.

I think you won’t get the type of discussion you are looking for with this thread, since your title was about practicing religion. That’s why people tell you the benefits they get from practicing it. What you seem to really be looking for is evidence that God exists. That might be worth you starting another thread (or looking through previous ones) if you haven’t already.

Allister McGrath is a scientist affiliated with Oxford (molecular biophysics) and is Anglican.

Francis Collins pioneered work on the human genome and is Christian, non Catholic.

A Catholic priest (forgot name) formulated the Big Bang theory.

Carl Sagan was non-religious.

Albert Einstein was-non religious, identified as a secular Jew (I think).

One of this is correct in regards to religion, the rest are wrong, the same way Sola Scriptura is wrong (I still think it is wrong as a non-Catholic, assuming the Catholic Church is true). The religious or non religious identify of a scientist means little.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

Allister McGrath is a scientist affiliated with Oxford (molecular biophysics) and is Anglican.

Francis Collins pioneered work on the human genome and is Christian, non Catholic.

A Catholic priest (forgot name) formulated the Big Bang theory.

Carl Sagan was non-religious.

Albert Einstein was-non religious, identified as a secular Jew (I think).

One of this is correct in regards to religion, the rest are wrong, the same way Sola Scriptura is wrong (I still think it is wrong as a non-Catholic, assuming the Catholic Church is true). The religious or non religious identify of a scientist means little.

I meant one of them not one of this.

 

[Incomplete]

I meant one of them not one of this.

And maybe you are wrong in your assessment that there is likely no God.

Nobody disputes that different people believe different things. If you are truly searching, look at what they have to say, see what makes sense.

You’re right about the impact what you believes has on how you live. And how you live is important (if God exists.) But that doesn’t mean that it’s a tragedy to be, say, lutheran if Catholicism is the true way (or vice versa.) For your case, you don’t believe while others do, and who is right? ,Maybe it’s not you. So with your fear of making a mistake, how do you handle that?

 

[Incomplete]

Even if God is working in your life, non-Christians or Christians outside of your denomination claim the same thing and they are of different religions.

Coming back to your idea that if you’re not 100% right, there’s something wrong with that.

And you might not be right in your thinking right now.

 

[Incomplete]

Happy Thanksgiving!! See response #178.

I worry about truth, at least in religion, because it is a big issue. Become Catholic and you must raise your kids Catholics, etc, etc, etc. Such claims about the Universe shouldn’t be taken lately. So far the most reasonable conclusion to me is that there may or may not be a God and Theism is a human invention, or at least more invented than say plain old religious apathy.

I will keeping learning from Catholic Answers Forums. It’s much easier to talk to Catholics than born again/bible thumper types.

Peace

I appreciate that last comment.

Sure, study and learn, don’t take things lightly. But that’s not the same as being afraid of making a mistake. So if I raise my daughter Catholic and it’s not 100% correct, how have I destroyed her life?

 

[Incomplete]

Even if God is working in your life, non-Christians or Christians outside of your denomination claim the same thing and they are of different religions.

Of course. God can work through anybody.

 

[PathDiagnosis]

And maybe you are wrong in your assessment that there is likely no God.

Nobody disputes that different people believe different things. If you are truly searching, look at what they have to say, see what makes sense.

You’re right about the impact what you believes has on how you live. And how you live is important (if God exists.) But that doesn’t mean that it’s a tragedy to be, say, lutheran if Catholicism is the true way (or vice versa.) For your case, you don’t believe while others do, and who is right? ,Maybe it’s not you. So with your fear of making a mistake, how do you handle that?

I handle it because the idea of one religion being true, or even just general Theism being true doesn’t seem probable based on general anthropology and the anthropology/history of religion/spirituality. The Catholic Church claims that humankind has been deceived by “the evil one” into other religions before t Christ (something like that in the CCC, I forgot the paragraph). I’m open to this possibility but it is so "far fetched: Theism is not that old, Christianity is not even an infant compared to the length of human history.

Lutheran? There are multiple Lutheran denominations (LCMS, ELCA, etc, etc). I would need to investigate the details of each one to figure which one is true. Martin Luther’s version of Lutheran probably doesn’t exist either.

I think being apathetic to religion is easier (for me) than returning to Theism (specifically Catholicism). It seems objectively more reasonable that Theism isn’t true than to be Theist and worry about what Theistic tradition is the ultimate truth of the universe…the truth about a pale blue dot called Earth.

Peace

 

[Incomplete]

There are scientists that became Muslims and all sorts of other religions, not just Christianity.

My point is that if you are really searching, as you seem to be, then look into what these people say. You have all these theories about why God doesn’t exist, yet you continue to seek. So seek out some of these scientists and read what they have to say.

My other point is that Christianity is reasonable. Even very intelligent people have come from atheism to Christianity.

 

[Incomplete]

I think being apathetic to religion is easier (for me) than returning to Theism (specifically Catholicism). It seems objectively more reasonable that Theism isn’t true than to be Theist and worry about what Theistic tradition is the ultimate truth of the universe…the truth about a pale blue dot called Earth.

Peace

But it isn’t easier for you, or you wouldn’t be seeking so hard.

My comment about handling things is that you have repeatedly said that you’re afraid to make a mistake.

And my point about being Lutheran was that, in all of your comments about fear of making a mistake on such an important issue, is that if Catholicism is true, it’s not a catastrophe if some are Lutheran (or any other Christian religion) and some are Catholic.