Why Pray for Purgatorians?

[LISA_Annette]

Your way of thinking would then be: “Why pray for anything?”
God already knows the answer… doesn’t he??? Whether or not God chooses to do something, we should pray. We should always ask that his will be done.

By asking that those souls in purgatory suffer a little less, we are asking for the most unselfish thing… someone other than our- selves to sufer less. When we offer up our suffering for them, that is the most unselfish thing. Just as Jesus did for us.

Remember, to pray without ceasing. Fast & Pray! God must be able to change his mind if he wants to. He does hear our prayers, they are never wasted.

This is a good answer----I was thinking the same thing about then why pray for anything, if God has it figured out—who are we to present our needs to Him, if he has it all figured out-???—**because Our Lord Jesus Christ told us to present our needs to Him!: “Ask, and you shall receive…” **I don’t see why that couldn’t be applied to the Holy Souls too. Sure God has it mind for them to be there, but why not out of charity ask for God to shorten their stay?? God is glorified by the charity of prayer for them and would bring them to Him all the sooner.

Yes it is good to thank God for His gift of purgatory because it is a joyous thing to be assured your salvation. The Holy souls will pray for you too once they go to heaven—what a great friend you will have that will pray for you that you live your life for God— to be ultimately be united with Him in heaven.

It is in Holy Bible II M 12:45
It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be freed from their sins.

 

[LISA_Annette]

From a simple mathematical perspective - Time in Purgatory divided by Time in Heaven equals?? Not possible. I’m getting a headache again.

Anyway, I do understand that our prayers are not wasted, even if the person we are praying for has already transitioned to Heaven (or worse, never went to Purgatory ).

the headache thing happens where there is mystery I am used to headaches with math in general; however, much MORE so with your equation

 

[Hellisreal]

I hope the fact that the Church is supernatural does not give anyone a headache.

Mysteries giving us headaches?

Rule out the sacraments too. The Incarnation, heck the whole enchillada!

 

[LISA_Annette]

I hope the fact that the Church is supernatural does not give anyone a headache.

Mysteries giving us headaches?
Rule out the sacraments too. The Incarnation, heck the whole enchillada!

of course not, the headache comment was meant as a joke, which I am know to do often—but seriously: it’s when you stop to think about things that are mysteries and try to add logic to it,then that can be a real problem (or so to speak:** headache**) math is bound by the rules of logic, and even THAT gives me a headache . Mysteries can NOT be explained by logical terms, which is why there is so much unbelief in our world. Some people insist they understand all things before they will submit in belief. Accepting mysteries of our faith takes a good dose of humility (i.e., “I know that can’t understand everything…”)

 

[PeterK]

Vincent,
Thank you for pointing out the distinction between judgment and purgation. You alone seemed to grasp the essence of my question.

Praying for the easing of a soul’s purgation at least now doesn’t seem to be praying to mitigate or change God’s perfectly just judgment.

I appreciate everyone’s interest in my question.
Thank you,
Peter

 

[ANGELIC_PEACE]

By Purgatorians I refer the the “poor souls in Purgatory.” I didn’t want the subject line to get truncated in the subject index and hope the curious will peek in and read the question.

The question:

Why do we pray for the poor souls in purgatory?
Let me explain my quandary.
They are on the ‘other side.’
They have received particular judgement from none other than Christ Himself.
Who am I to request, via prayer, that this perfect judgement rendered to these souls by Christ be made less in some way or another?
Besides they are all eventually going to heaven anyway, right?
If anything it seems we should offer prayers of thankgiving that purgation exists at all, a great and undeserved mercy.
Praying for the poor souls in purgatory seems to call into question Christ’s perfect justice regarding these souls. Is Christ too harsh? Not merciful enough? I understand it is a charitable act to pray for any individual. I sympathize with the certain devotions that try to make us aware of the suffering of these souls. But are we not praying to alter the particular judgment of Christ when we pray for thier release? Is his judgement perfect or not?

Praying for the living seems more efficacious.

Thanks for listening,
Peter

i pray not only for the holy souls in purgatory, i also pray for the dying too (i pray for the church, mankind also…i have tons of prayer intentions)
anyway i pray for the holy souls so that their relese may come quicly so that they can go to heaven sooner…imagine if you was in purgatory and you knew that you was saved and destined to be in heaven…but the only thing between you and heaven was purgatory…you would be absolutely longing to be releasd…imagine that you yourself had no power over getting released…but you knew that if those on earth prayed for you it would shorten your sentence (or get you released) and bring you relief…wouldn’t you want those on earth to pray for you…and if they did pray for you, wouldn’t you be so grateful that you would pray for them until you saw them entering heaven…
thats why i pray for the holy souls…they are desperate to get to heaven and can no longer help themselves…
i pray for the dying because maybe a prayer offered for an unknown dying sinner may mean that soul going to heaven or purgatory instead of hell…
i pray for the living too…but i pray for the dying and the holy souls…and i beleive that the help which we give to them is the help which we will get when we are dying and if we have to go to purgatory…
we are more likely to draw gods mercy on us if we are merciful to others…

ANGELIC PEACE

 

[Hellisreal]

Grant them eternal rest

Most loving Jesu, I humbly beg Thee, that Thou Thyself wouldst offer to Thine eternal Father in behalf of the Holy Souls in pergatory, the Most Precious Blood which poured forth from the sacred wounds of Thine adorable Body, together with Thine agony and death. And do thou likewise, O sorrowful
Virgin Mary, present unto Him, together with the agonizing Passion of thy dear Son, thine own sighs and tears, and all the sorrows thou didst suffer in His suffering, in order that, through the merits of the same, refreshment may be granted to the souls now suffering in the torments of purgatory, so that, being delivered from that painful passion, they may be clothed with the glory of heaven, there to sing the mercies of God forever and ever. Amen

 

[PeterK]

Pyropam,
You REALLY didn’t understand my question. So I wanted to respond to you directly. You jumped to conclusions and made a hasty and erroneous assessment of “my way of thinking.”

Your way of thinking would then be: “Why pray for anything?”
How did you arrived at this from my question? I was asking, SPECIFICALLY, why we pray to change a judgment of God upon a soul in the NEXT life. Two things differentiate this from “praying for anything.” 1) In praying for souls in purgatory specifically, my pray intention seems to be opposed to or desiring to alter a perfect and final judgment or act of will by God Himself. Not everything we pray about has this distinction or characteristic.
2) Praying for situations in the NEXT life after judgment is remarkable different than praying for situations in these present “pre-judgment” times.

*Whether or not God chooses to do something, we should pray. We should always ask that his will be done. *
And this was **exactly **part of the confusion for me. God’s will has been done. Right? God, Himself, has pronounced judgment on a particular soul. Is God’s judgment separate form His will? So, with my former understanding of purgation - my pre-Vincent understanding - by praying for release from purgation for souls I wasn’t praying that God’s will be done - instead I was praying that God’s will be UNDONE or changed, or so it seemed. Has God passed judgment or not? Is God’s judgment a concrete representation of His will or not? Is God’s will perfect or not? See the theological corner I’m in? Evidently, you’ seem to be in the same corner, only you have accepted an apparent theological contradiction as plausible with the following statement…

*God must be able to change his mind if he wants to. *
Not quite my definition of omniscient. If my current understanding has me arriving at conclusions like this - which it was - then this tells me I don’t understand something correctly and need to seek some clarification - which I did.

I don’t mean to open a can of worms and nit pick this to death. Vincent provided a clearer understanding and it has helped and I appreciate it. But I had to respond to you directly, because (I believe) you totally misrepresented my question.

No biggie, really. It happens all the time.
I’m *sooo *misunderstood - right?

Thanks,
Peter

 

[LilyM]

Pyropam,
You REALLY didn’t understand my question. So I wanted to respond to you directly. You jumped to conclusions and made a hasty and erroneous assessment of “my way of thinking.”

Your way of thinking would then be: “Why pray for anything?”
How did you arrived at this from my question? I was asking, SPECIFICALLY, why we pray to change a judgment of God upon a soul in the NEXT life. Two things differentiate this from “praying for anything.” 1) In praying for souls in purgatory specifically, my pray intention seems to be opposed to or desiring to alter a perfect and final judgment or act of will by God Himself. Not everything we pray about has this distinction or characteristic.
2) Praying for situations in the NEXT life after judgment is remarkable different than praying for situations in these present “pre-judgment” times.

*Whether or not God chooses to do something, we should pray. We should always ask that his will be done. *
And this was **exactly **part of the confusion for me. God’s will has been done. Right? God, Himself, has pronounced judgment on a particular soul. Is God’s judgment separate form His will? So, with my former understanding of purgation - my pre-Vincent understanding - by praying for release from purgation for souls I wasn’t praying that God’s will be done - instead I was praying that God’s will be UNDONE or changed, or so it seemed. Has God passed judgment or not? Is God’s judgment a concrete representation of His will or not? Is God’s will perfect or not? See the theological corner I’m in? Evidently, you’ seem to be in the same corner, only you have accepted an apparent theological contradiction as plausible with the following statement…

*God must be able to change his mind if he wants to. *
Not quite my definition of omniscient. If my current understanding has me arriving at conclusions like this - which it was - then this tells me I don’t understand something correctly and need to seek some clarification - which I did.

I don’t mean to open a can of worms and nit pick this to death. Vincent provided a clearer understanding and it has helped and I appreciate it. But I had to respond to you directly, because (I believe) you totally misrepresented my question.

No biggie, really. It happens all the time.
I’m *sooo *misunderstood - right?

Thanks,
Peter

God’s will has been done? No - God’s will is for us to pray for them. THAT is His will as well.

It’s in Maccabees somewhere - ‘it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead,that they may be loosed from their sins’.

Even OT Jews knew that God’s will was for us to pray for the dead.

 

[Teelynn]

So that they will get to Heaven in time to pray for me when I am in Purgatory and need all the prayers I can get.

My thoughts exactly. Don’t trust the idea of people here praying for me, the state world is in at the moment. Actually, I also look at it this way. If I help them, then maybe they will help me, then I will probably have more pull for the poor people here.

 

[PeterK]

Lily,
You also seem to misunderstand how I was misunderstanding things.
First, originally, I was confusing purgation with God’s final judgment. I saw being in Purgatory as the judgment of God on a particular soul. Because I thought this was a judgment of God, then I figured it was God’s will. This made sense to me that God’s judgment would be in line with His will. And this is where my misunderstanding gave rise to the original question. IF a soul being in Purgatory was the result of God’s judgment on that soul, AND God’s judgment has to be inline with His will, THEN being in Purgatory, for that soul, is God’s will for that soul. Makes sense.
And now we come to the original question part…
With the above incorrect understanding in place, it seemed to me I was praying to remove or to alter God’s will by praying for the early release of souls for Purgatory - who were in Purgatory because God willed them to be there.
This, specifically, is what I was asking about. If it’s God’s will why am I praying to alter or remove it? God’s will is the best thing that could ever happen to anyone, right?
Do you sense my dilemma here?
I’m not questioning the power of prayer, the need for prayer, or that Jesus commands us to pray as many posts claimed. Not at all.
My question was theological not ecatological. It seemed to me these two acts of God’s will were in contradiction. This can not be, God does not contradict Himself. So it was ME who needed some clarification. And I received it. I was confusing being in Purgatory with God’s judgment. And, if you read the entire thread, you will see how Vincent cleared this up for me.

Probably a better phrasing of the original question would have been, “Why does God will souls to be in Purgatory (by his judgment) and wills us to pray them out? Isn’t God willing us to pray against His will?”

Please back up your reading in the thread to at least a couple of posts before Vincent’s helpful response, and all this shouold line out for you. Don’t just read the last several posts - they don’t cover it.

Thank you for responding Lily.
And thanks to all.

And with this post I’m going to stop responding to the misunderstandings regarding my original misunderstanding.

Peter

 

[PeterK]

So that they will get to Heaven in time to pray for me when I am in Purgatory and need all the prayers I can get.

Worry not, the last soul liberated will be the focus of all heaven’s prayers.

Peter

 

[dranzal]

As Mayor of the province of Purgatoria, I respectfully request fervent prayers from the Church Militant for the souls of the repentant citizens of Purgatoria.

Please feel free to deposit the prayers in the mailbox of Our Blessed Mother. Courtesy copies to other Saints are encouraged and appreciated.

Thank you for your diligence in this matter.

May God bless you on your mission and we’ll keep the light on for ya!

 

[water]

I didn’t know Purgatoria was in South Florida.

Peter, I’ve been reading the Diary of St. Faustina and have used some books for the devotions for the Holy Souls - the more I read, the more devoted I want to have for the Holy Souls - and therefore, it helps me going to daily mass more often.

 

[dranzal]

Well…it is pretty hot down here…

 

[Zooey]

God’s will has been done? No - God’s will is for us to pray for them. THAT is His will as well.

It’s in Maccabees somewhere - ‘it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead,that they may be loosed from their sins’.

Even OT Jews knew that God’s will was for us to pray for the dead.

Yeah…Kind of what I was trying to say, that He wants me to pray for them, so I do. (Probably:blush: not enough…).
Sure, there are questions in my mind sometimes. (You should have heard the:blush: awful row I had with God, over praying for Ben Franklin… ) But, see, there is a reason that He puts things and people on our hearts…Do I know that reason? Nope. Not me. I just keep trying, really hard, to behave myself…

A lot of this is, as I say, very Wesleyan: Father Wesley was big on folllowing the leading of the Holy Spirit, even when we are sure that we heard Him wrong.
Susanna Wesley said once, in a letter to her by-then-famous son, that if we do (or neglect to do) something that we feel uncomfortable about doing, even though it is the slightest matter, that “that is sin to you, however innocent it may seem, in & of itself”. I always thought that was over the top; now I think it was one of the wisest things I ever heard…
So, God wants me (wants us all), to pray for the souls in Purgatory. I don’t propose to argue…