Why Pray?

[Counterpoint]

Merriam-Webster defines “prayer” as “an address (as a petition) to God” and “an earnest request or wish.”

With that definition in mind, I pose the following question: Why pray?

(This is the philosophy forum. So, I expect a response that appeals to rational argumentation. IOW, don’t appeal to the authority of the Scriptures or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

 

[catholix_cool]

Merriam-Webster defines “prayer” as “an address (as a petition) to God” and “an earnest request or wish.”

With that definition in mind, I pose the following question: Why pray?

(This is the philosophy forum. So, I expect a response that appeals to rational argumentation. IOW, don’t appeal to the authority of the Scriptures or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 2477

Prayer is a vital necessity. Proof from the contrary is no less convincing: if we do not allow the Spirit to lead us, we fall back into the slavery of sin.38 How can the Holy Spirit be our life if our heart is far from him?

Nothing is equal to prayer; for what is impossible it makes possible, what is difficult, easy. . . . For it is impossible, utterly impossible, for the man who prays eagerly and invokes God ceaselessly ever to sin.39

Those who pray are certainly saved; those who do not pray are certainly damned

 

[Counterpoint]

Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 2477

Prayer is a vital necessity. Proof from the contrary is no less convincing: if we do not allow the Spirit to lead us, we fall back into the slavery of sin.38 How can the Holy Spirit be our life if our heart is far from him?

Nothing is equal to prayer; for what is impossible it makes possible, what is difficult, easy. . . . For it is impossible, utterly impossible, for the man who prays eagerly and invokes God ceaselessly ever to sin.39

Those who pray are certainly saved; those who do not pray are certainly damned

I guess you didn’t bother to read the OP.

 

[catholix_cool]

sorry

 

[Nelka]

Firstly Merriam-Webster isn’t a very good dictionary.

Firstly praying to God is communicating with Him, you could ask why should I speak to my wife?

Secondly praying to God is asking for help which is a good enough reason to pray.

Thirdly we pray to God to help others which is an even better reason to pray.

 

[catholicscot]

Merriam-Webster defines “prayer” as “an address (as a petition) to God” and “an earnest request or wish.”

With that definition in mind, I pose the following question: Why pray?

(This is the philosophy forum. So, I expect a response that appeals to rational argumentation. IOW, don’t appeal to the authority of the Scriptures or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

Petition is only one of the types of prayer that there are so your definition is inadequate.

We pray to give praise, that is we praise God because we love Him. Some people criticise the notion of a God who demands to be praised but if you have ever spent time with someone in love or with the parent of a newborn child you will see that they turn every conversation into praise of their beloved. They cannot help themselves, praise always pours out of a heart overflowing with love. So it is, or should be, with Christians and God.

We pray to give thanks. Everything we and our loved ones are and have comes from Him and so we owe Him a debt of gratitude and prayer is a way of expressing this. Hardships and suffering often conceal within themselves rich treasures of grace so Christians will, or should, offer thanks for these also.

We pray to communicate and be communicated with. Expressing in words and silences and sometimes groans and tears the realities of our lives and the depth of our love for Him and for our neighbours we know that God hears us. He responds in varied ways, sometimes it is true His response is silence and apparent absence. Sometimes though He infuses us with the sweet consolation of His love poured into our heart. Sometimes He sends inspirations and call to our conscience. Sometimes He speaks to us in a passage of Scripture that we suddenly understand in a new way. Sometimes He speaks to us through the words and deeds of our neighbours or our enemies.

And, yes, we offer petitions on behalf of ourselves and others that events in the world may take a certain course. Does this square with an unchanging God who has perfect foreknowledge? Yes, of course it does. Our faith and our prayers are a factor He has taken account of as He unfolds the history of the world. If they were absent and not present then He would unfold history in a different way.

Incidentally my latest blog is about a particular form of prayer whose main purpose is to change the person praying rather than the one prayed to. Perhaps you might like to read it.

 

[Amandil]

Better question is why not?

 

[Petaro]

If it is agreed that the definition is incomplete as other wiser posts have stated, then we can move on to the limited definition.
If we are praying to an all good God who by His nature is limited in logic to doing only good, then why ask for the obvious. Either what we asked for is not for our good and is not going to be answered, or it is for our good and would be given to us anyway. This presumes that God knows what is for our good and will act always for our good without us asking for it.

Can we assume He will act for our good without us asking? It would appear that all interactions He has had with us since birth have been for our good and we haven’t even been aware of most of them. Thus prayer of petitions are unnecessary- unless we bring in the other undefined aspect of prayer which is communication, conversation, dialogue, between Father and family. We are not allowed to use scripture or church documents, but it would seem reasonable to surmise that God does not want to communicate with us or He does.
Given the importance He as our Creator and God should be to us then we reasonably should want to communicate with Him just to ensure He realises we acknowledge Him as our God and are asking for His attention as His creation.
If He doesn’t want to communicate our prayers do nothing. If He does then they may be of value.
Thus in the terms of the great Wager, it is prudent to pray. If we extend our inquiry about the nature of God to the spiritual experiences of great nations and generations over time, then we can find historically spiritual experiences of communication with God. On the overwhelming experience of our ancestors, it is prudent to take such communication as possible and thus again, prudent.

 

[JRKH]

Merriam-Webster defines “prayer” as “an address (as a petition) to God” and “an earnest request or wish.”

With that definition in mind, I pose the following question: Why pray?

(This is the philosophy forum. So, I expect a response that appeals to rational argumentation. IOW, don’t appeal to the authority of the Scriptures or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

Counter question - - Why not pray?

I ask this because it seems your OP does not really provide much information.
I pray because God, my creator, exists. Because He exists and because he desires that we communicate - I talk to Him. I praise Him, thank Him, share with Him and Ask Him for things (mostly help ).

So - having shared this - I look forward to your answer to my question. “Why not pray”?

Peace
James

 

[Phalanx]

Wall of text

I would also like to add the use of prayer as meditation. A way to shut out everything in the material world and just to be in the moment of prayer. In calm peacefull tranquility.

 

[KrazyKat]

How can He help if we do not talk to Him. Why should He?

 

[drac16]

From an Islamic perspective. He [God] created us to worship Him and part of how that is established and maintained is through communicating with Him (i.e. prayer). He is before all things and He has power over all, so you dishonour Him if you depend on anything before Him. Doesn’t matter what it is; go to Him first. Before the doctor, before the friend, before the bank, before the psychologist, before the counselor, etc.

Prayer is not always done to request something, though. In our daily salah, the first thing we say is ‘Alhamdulillah rabbil alameen’, which means ‘All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Universe’. Prayer can be to thank Him for something or to bring up concerns. Some people have a robotic prayer life inasmuch as they only pray when they need something. Allah is not your plumber.

 

[KrazyKat]

From an Islamic perspective. He [God] created us to worship Him and part of how that is established and maintained is through communicating with Him (i.e. prayer). He is before all things and He has power over all, so you dishonour Him if you depend on anything before Him. Doesn’t matter what it is; go to Him first. Before the doctor, before the friend, before the bank, before the psychologist, before the counselor, etc.

Prayer is not always done to request something, though. In our daily salah, the first thing we say is ‘Alhamdulillah rabbil alameen’, which means ‘All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Universe’. Prayer can be to thank Him for something or to bring up concerns. Some people have a robotic prayer life inasmuch as they only pray when they need something. Allah is not your plumber.

Very well put ! Amen

 

[davidv]

Merriam-Webster defines “prayer” as “an address (as a petition) to God” and “an earnest request or wish.”

With that definition in mind, I pose the following question: Why pray?

(This is the philosophy forum. So, I expect a response that appeals to rational argumentation. IOW, don’t appeal to the authority of the Scriptures or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

Given the restriction presented by your definition, I would say you should not pray. Why? Because God is not a vending machine, beholden to your requests.

 

[mikekle]

I was told by a few people that instead of saying the same prayers over and over, its best to just speak to God, Mary, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, like you would speak to a friend, in fact they said this is what God wants, he wants us to have a relationship with him and treat him like we would any other friend.

Im not sure how accurate this is though, regarding how the CC feels about it.

 

[ynotzap]

Since you refer to Websters’ dictionary for you OP on the definition of prayer to God, what does Webster say about the God you refer to . Webster has many definitions for God. Once we can establish that then we can proceed. Webster also defines prayer as the act or practice of praying as to God (not directly to God but as to God) You are a stickler for words, thats why I must be specific.

 

[Counterpoint]

Petition is only one of the types of prayer that there are so your definition is inadequate.

I know that there other forms of prayer besides petitionary prayer. That is precisely why I limited the definition of prayer in the OP to petitionary prayer.

And, yes, we offer petitions on behalf of ourselves and others that events in the world may take a certain course. Does this square with an unchanging God who has perfect foreknowledge? Yes, of course it does. Our faith and our prayers are a factor He has taken account of as He unfolds the history of the world. If they were absent and not present then He would unfold history in a different way…

If God is good, then why would God not always act for what is ultimately good?

 

[Counterpoint]

Firstly Merriam-Webster isn’t a very good dictionary.

Firstly praying to God is communicating with Him, you could ask why should I speak to my wife?

Secondly praying to God is asking for help which is a good enough reason to pray.

Thirdly we pray to God to help others which is an even better reason to pray.

Why do we have to ask God to help us and others?

 

[AndrewW94]

I think this is an excellent question. First, before others complain, I would like to stress that the question is limited to prayers of petition and intercession.

The answer to the question is above reason, it is a mystery, quite similar to predestination. However, we can come to some understanding of the question. I strongly recommend the following book: newhope-ky.org/spirituallife-prayer.html

Here is an excerpt relevant to your question:

But if God has a definite plan for the universe, and if God’s will is utterly inflexible, as it most certainly is, then another difficulty strikes us–what is the use of prayer? Must we not say that what is to be will me, and passively hope for the best? Plenty of men said that, but they said it because they had a wrong idea of prayer.

The first thing about prayer is that it is not really a means of letting God know what we want, or of persuading hum to give is what we want. God already knows our needs far better than we do ourselves, and is more than willing to supply them. When we pray for a favor and get int, what happens is not that God has changed his mind, but that we, moved by God, have disposed ourselves to receive something he has already intended to give us. When we pray earnestly for a thing, we intensify our desire for it, and at the same time we grasp in a real way that we are completely dependent on God. And intense desire with acknowledgement of our dependence on God are the dispositions needed to receive God’s choicest favors. By prayer we do not interfere with God’s plan for the government of the world; we cooperate in it in a way that plan has already provided for.

He then talks about how sowing seed is in no way a denial of God’s providence. After this he writes:

Just as we fulfill God’s providence by preparing the soil and sowing the wheat in spring, so also do we fulfill it by prayer, which prepares the soul and the world for the growth of divine grace. In God’s providence, prayer is as necessary for the spiritual harvest as the sowing of seed is for the material harvest. Prayer is itself a seed, given to us by God, that carries with it, by his own decree, the harvest of the world’s salvation. We may well find on the last day that there is for us no fruit of grace, nothing of eternal value, that is not the result of prayer.

(from pg. 14,15 of the above mentioned book. Emphasis original.)

 

[Counterpoint]

If it is agreed that the definition is incomplete as other wiser posts have stated, then we can move on to the limited definition.
If we are praying to an all good God who by His nature is limited in logic to doing only good, then why ask for the obvious. Either what we asked for is not for our good and is not going to be answered, or it is for our good and would be given to us anyway. This presumes that God knows what is for our good and will act always for our good without us asking for it.

Yes, that’s the presumption.

Can we assume He will act for our good without us asking? It would appear that all interactions He has had with us since birth have been for our good and we haven’t even been aware of most of them. Thus prayer of petitions are unnecessary- unless we bring in the other undefined aspect of prayer which is communication, conversation, dialogue, between Father and family. We are not allowed to use scripture or church documents, but it would seem reasonable to surmise that God does not want to communicate with us or He does.

It would seem reasonable to surmise that we are either in communion with God or not. And if we are not (or believe that we are not), then this would raise the question: Why not?