Why Pray?

[Counterpoint]

repetitive prayer should be used towards meditating on how to manifest to do the will of god.

I can see how one can meditate upon the “Lord’s Prayer” in this manner.

silent prayer should be used towards contemplating and discerning if you are really praying for others or yourself.

I believe silent prayer is a form of contemplative prayer. But I see it as a way to directly commune with God. (If you are truly engaging in silent prayer, then your mind should be silent. Right?)

Prayer is not supposed to be use to wish for things. Prayer is supposed to be used to get closer to God.

Agreed.

This is why people don’t understand the power of prayer. Because people pray for things in a broad perspective.

Agreed.

 

[Counterpoint]

prayer should focus on bring people closer to God. not earthly desires (including health)

This resonates with me.

 

[Counterpoint]

Thank you, Counterpoint, for picking our brains.

You’re welcome.

 

[Counterpoint]

What if by our prayer of petition leads us to God who can answer our petitions, and each time we ask we find ourselves at His feet, only to realize that He uses our prayers to bring us to Him to realize and discover Him who is our greatest need. If you have God what do you need. and if you don’t have God, what have you.

I can understand petitioning for spiritual values (e.g. praying the “Peace Prayer” or the “Serenity Prayer”). That seems perfectly valid to me.

 

[oldcelt]

Even as a Deist I pray to thank the creator for the beauty of the world I see. I just don’t believe that prayers of petition serve any purpose, nor may my prayers of thanks.

 

[Counterpoint]

Even as a Deist I pray to thank the creator for the beauty of the world I see. I just don’t believe that prayers of petition serve any purpose, nor may my prayers of thanks.

Just curious. If you don’t believe your “prayer of thanks” serves any purpose, then why do you do it?

 

[oldcelt]

Just curious. If you don’t believe your “prayer of thanks” serves any purpose, then why do you do it?

I guess because I’m not certain on that, and I think it gives me some comfort. So far as asking God for things above and beyond what we have here, I do not believe they will be answered.

 

[hasantas]

QUOTE]

God tell us to pray77. Say (to the Rejecters): "My Lord would not concern Himself with you but for your call on Him:… Al-Furqan-77).

And there is a answer to all pray(186. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I respond to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. Al-Baqarah-186)

We are weak and inability but God is almighty. When we are in need we want help from someone else. We can not know the future and we are not able to control everything so we have to request charity for good consequences. İn that case we need to pray. God wants us to pray because of our weakness.

Pray is summary and origin of worshipping. With our praying we show that we accept and believe in one almighty God but not something else. So when satan try to tempt us we must ask God for help.

İf someone ask why do ı must to pray God for help and yet God knows every thing? Couldn’t God help me without my request?

We are in an exam and there are many difficulties in front of us. Sometimes we need aid and support to pass these handicaps. İf God would remove all barriers there would not be any mean in exam. God exam us in wealthy and trouble. We must thank to God in wealthy and we must show patience and request help from God in trouble. These are our duty and pray because indeed is a duty and worshipping.

But we should pray for things generally that get us close to God . We can pray for material wishes which is difficut to get but shouldn’t be like that “ ı want that brand mark car or house etc.). When we are ill we should ask and pray for heal but we have to go to doctor and get medicine too to fulfil our effective and actual pray. Yes going to doctor is our actual pray.

God anwers for all our requests but performing them is incidental upon His will and wisdom. İn every case if we pray we will take our good deed from God.

 

[JRKH]

So, what insights have you gained through your petitionary prayers? Can you give me an example?

Well one example would be when I prayed - most fervently - for my wife to be healed of Alzheimer’s dementia. God did not heal her (physically) - but he did provide us with the opportunity for great spiritual healing and peace as we journeyed together.
He taught me, through caring for her, greater patience and understanding; of how patient He has been with me in my life.
I came to understand more fully how selfish it was for me to try to hold on to her when it was time for her to go home to the Lord.
Of course I miss her, and that won’t go away but she is where we both want to be.
So rather than my foolishly wishing that she were still here with me…I wish to be an ever more faithful son of my heavenly Father so that one day I will be able to go to where she is now.

My petitioning God and then listening to his replies were of great help to me.

Remember that prayers of petition need not be for “things”…Solomon asked God for Wisdom.
It is far better that we ask God for these kinds of graces - wisdom, mercy, love, understanding, patience, etc…

Peace
James

 

[Aloysium]

This resonates with me

That seems perfectly valid to me

.
These interesting comments can lead to considerations regarding the importance of prayer.
Whatever the intent of the author, in themselves, they speak to the nature of fallen man.

Having eaten of the fruit of the treee of good and evil, we appropriated onto ourselves the determination of what is good, what essentially is real.
In doing so, and in disobedience of the Father, we damaged our relationship with Him.

As a result, the infinite mystery of God and creation is filtered through a mind plagued with varying degrees of illusion, distortions and lies, fed by sin.

To state that an idea resonates with oneself essentially is an acknowledgement that the argument is being followed by the listener.
The bottom line however, is that the statement has to resonnate with the Truth.

We come to know the Truth, through rebuilding the relationship that God seeks to renew through participation in His Church, of which prayer is a key component.

 

[ynotzap]

When we speak of truth , it’s because God designed it to be the object of appetency of the human mind…St. Thomas. The truth being that we are human beings created with a union of the physical and the spiritual. body and soul. We learn through metaphysics and our Faith that God is pure spirit. We learn that the soul of man has for it’s faculties, intelligence, and volition (will) We know and can choose. They are spiritual faculties. It’s very appropriate for man to communicate with God who is pure spirit with his spiritual faculty of intelligence. Although He can communicate by locution, this is the exception, because by the intelligence of man he is able to understand, and he can achieve this by meditating on the world around him, and observe circumstances and situation that God places in his life. He is able to understand God’s communication in the light of his understanding enlightened by faith. He can communicate in prayer with his God spiritually. Even though it seems like a one way conversation, many can look back and understand that their prayers have been answered. Their faith in God has been tested. It is impossible to please God without Faith. Prayer is a test of that faith, and when we pray we are practicing our faith, and God is really listening, and answering in His way. Sometimes He even parts the thin curtain that separates us from Him and speaks to u;s directly. The Saints have proven this.

 

[tonyrey]

Well one example would be when I prayed - most fervently - for my wife to be healed of Alzheimer’s dementia. God did not heal her (physically) - but he did provide us with the opportunity for great spiritual healing and peace as we journeyed together.
He taught me, through caring for her, greater patience and understanding; of how patient He has been with me in my life.
I came to understand more fully how selfish it was for me to try to hold on to her when it was time for her to go home to the Lord.
Of course I miss her, and that won’t go away but she is where we both want to be.
So rather than my foolishly wishing that she were still here with me…I wish to be an ever more faithful son of my heavenly Father so that one day I will be able to go to where she is now.

My petitioning God and then listening to his replies were of great help to me.

Remember that prayers of petition need not be for “things”…Solomon asked God for Wisdom.
It is far better that we ask God for these kinds of graces - wisdom, mercy, love, understanding, patience, etc…

Peace
James

:clapping: A superb response which highlights the negativity of those who consider prayer to be a waste of time…

 

[tonyrey]

Even as a Deist I pray to thank the creator for the beauty of the world I see. I just don’t believe that prayers of petition serve any purpose, nor may my prayers of thanks.

“may” is a loophole which “may” lead to a more positive attitude…

 

[oldcelt]

“may” is a loophole which “may” lead to a more positive attitude…

My attitude is quite positive and very realistic. I have never had a prayer answered in the affirmative and know of no one who has. The old tact of the answer was no is just a way to soothe our psyche.
What’s the old saying about the definition of insanity?

 

[Aloysium]

My attitude is quite positive and very realistic. I have never had a prayer answered in the affirmative and know of no one who has. The old tact of the answer was no is just a way to soothe our psyche.
What’s the old saying about the definition of insanity?

Hmm.
What were you praying for?
Try asking to be a more loving person, to know God more fully, to know His will, to be better capable of doing His will, for peace, for patience, to become a more thankful and accepting person; ask for the well-being of others. Pray for your enemies.
It is these sorts of things that are important, that you carry with you to life eternal.
Everything else is transient garbage.

 

[oldcelt]

Hmm.
What were you praying for?
Try asking to be a more loving person, to know God more fully, to know His will, to be better capable of doing His will, for peace, for patience, to become a more thankful and accepting person; ask for the well-being of others. Pray for your enemies.
It is these sorts of things that are important, that you carry with you to life eternal.
Everything else is transient garbage.

You mean like the lives of loved ones, or peace. The remainder of your list I prayed for many years and, well, here I am.

 

[tonyrey]

My attitude is quite positive and very realistic. I have never had a prayer answered in the affirmative and know of no one who has. The old tact of the answer was no is just a way to soothe our psyche.
What’s the old saying about the definition of insanity?

No one could have been more sane and realistic than St John of the Cross who suffered immensely during his forty-nine years on this earth. Your appreciation of the Ascent of Mount Carmel is certainly positive and his belief in the power of prayer is an essential element of his spirituality. For him God is not a remote deity but our Lover who makes us forget all our troubles:

1. O living flame of love
   That tenderly wounds my soul
   In its deepest center! Since
   Now you are not oppressive,
   Now consummate! if it be your will:
   Tear through the veil of this sweet encounter!

 2. O sweet cautery,
O delightful wound!
O gentle hand! O delicate touch 
That tastes of eternal life
And pays every debt!
In killing you changed death to life.

1. O lamps of fire!
   in whose splendors
   The deep caverns of feeling,
   Once obscure and blind,
   Now give forth, so rarely, so exquisitely,
   Both warmth and light to their Beloved.

1. How gently and lovingly
   You wake in my heart,
   Where in secret you dwell alone;
   And in your sweet breathing,
   Filled with good and glory,
   How tenderly You swell my heart with love.

The full beauty of his poetry is lost in translation:

¡Oh llama de amor viva,
que tiernamente hieres
de mi alma en el más profundo centro!
Pues ya no eres esquiva,
acaba ya si quieres;
rompe la tela de este dulce encuentro.

¡Oh cauterio suave!
¡Oh regalada llaga!
¡Oh mano blanda! ¡Oh toque delicado!
que a vida eterna sabe, y toda deuda paga;
matando, muerte en vida la has trocado.

¡Oh lámparas de fuego,
en cuyos resplandores
las profundas cavernas del sentido,
que estaba oscuro y ciego,
con estraños primores
calor y luz dan junto a su querido!

¡Cuán manso y amoroso
recuerdas en mi seno
donde secretamente solo moras,
y en tu aspirar sabroso
de bien y gloria lleno,
cuán delicadamente me enamoras!

St John of the Cross Llama de amor viva

Magnificent! When I was a student his poetry gave me a glimpse of another world.

 

[tonyrey]

When we speak of truth , it’s because God designed it to be the object of appetency of the human mind…St. Thomas. The truth being that we are human beings created with a union of the physical and the spiritual, body and soul. We learn through metaphysics and our Faith that God is pure spirit. We learn that the soul of man has for its faculties, intelligence, and volition (will) We know and can choose. They are spiritual faculties. It’s very appropriate for man to communicate with God who is pure spirit with his spiritual faculty of intelligence. Although He can communicate by locution, this is the exception, because by the intelligence of man he is able to understand, and he can achieve this by meditating on the world around him, and observe circumstances and situation that God places in his life. He is able to understand God’s communication in the light of his understanding enlightened by faith. He can communicate in prayer with his God spiritually. Even though it seems like a one way conversation, many can look back and understand that their prayers have been answered. Their faith in God has been tested. It is impossible to please God without Faith. Prayer is a test of that faith, and when we pray we are practicing our faith, and God is really listening, and answering in His way. Sometimes He even parts the thin curtain that separates us from Him and speaks to us directly. The Saints have proven this.

A superb post!

 

[tonyrey]

You mean like the lives of loved ones, or peace. The remainder of your list I prayed for many years and, well, here I am.

On the right path!

 

[tonyrey]

Counterpoint;11827381:

QUOTE]

God tell us to pray77. Say (to the Rejecters): "My Lord would not concern Himself with you but for your call on Him:… Al-Furqan-77).

And there is a answer to all pray(186. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I respond to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. Al-Baqarah-186)

We are weak and inability but God is almighty. When we are in need we want help from someone else. We can not know the future and we are not able to control everything so we have to request charity for good consequences. İn that case we need to pray. God wants us to pray because of our weakness.

Pray is summary and origin of worshipping. With our praying we show that we accept and believe in one almighty God but not something else. So when satan try to tempt us we must ask God for help.

İf someone ask why do ı must to pray God for help and yet God knows every thing? Couldn’t God help me without my request?

We are in an exam and there are many difficulties in front of us. Sometimes we need aid and support to pass these handicaps. İf God would remove all barriers there would not be any mean in exam. God exam us in wealthy and trouble. We must thank to God in wealthy and we must show patience and request help from God in trouble. These are our duty and pray because indeed is a duty and worshipping.

But we should pray for things generally that get us close to God . We can pray for material wishes which is difficut to get but shouldn’t be like that “ ı want that brand mark car or house etc.). When we are ill we should ask and pray for heal but we have to go to doctor and get medicine too to fulfil our effective and actual pray. Yes going to doctor is our actual pray.

God anwers for all our requests but performing them is incidental upon His will and wisdom. İn every case if we pray we will take our good deed from God.

We share belief in God’s love and the power of prayer.