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StudentMI
Guest
Such a sad article. Thanks for sharing.
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godisgood77
Guest
I find the article okay. . . .
Clerical abuse… they should be in the doldrums about that; we all should be. It will take decades upon decades . . . to earn credibility back.
Papal support… Here is the thing from my view, the Pope is rightfully challenging all priests to be missionary and,. . . . Priests . . . should smell of the sheep as this wonderful pontiff often says…
Clerical abuse… they should be in the doldrums about that; we all should be. It will take decades upon decades . . . to earn credibility back.
Papal support… Here is the thing from my view, the Pope is rightfully challenging all priests to be missionary and,. . . . Priests . . . should smell of the sheep as this wonderful pontiff often says…
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JHFamily
Guest
… and this kind of constant criticism for the laity does not contribute to the demoralization of priests? Come on… this just underscores the difficult situation that priests find themselves in. No matter what they do, it’s not the “right thing”. That, indeed, is demoralizing.
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Servant31
Guest
I think this is a really complex issue with many moving parts. Some opinions that come to mind though, apologies for a long post.
-I think we have gone away from truth. Without truth there is nothing but opinions. I think a healthy balance between truth and opinion is important, but in some ways I think wave neglected truth. The last I heard it was what 60% of Catholics don’t believe in the real prescience? I think we have to get on this stuff.
-I think as the laity really should really look at home ourselves. I think priests are often criticized for unnecessary things. I sometimes hear some things and really think…does this person just have nothing to do? Again I think a healthy degree of constructive criticism is good. But it needs to be appropriate and faith minded.
-In general I think we have moved away from appropriate respect for the prayer and the sacraments, especially the Eucharist and confession. The priests primary concern should be for the souls in his care. If we aren’t respecting the sacraments and prayer we are making his job nearly impossible.
-Im still debating here and working this out in my own mind…but I think we have a problem with authority. People become offended too easily on the topics of sin. If the priests address sin it’s as if they are hurting some. What’s better, to tell someone kindly that they should change a really unhealthy habit for their own good. Or never say anything? I heard a homily on abortion recently, which was the first time in a loooooooong time.
-I also think we, laity and clergy, are having a hard time with appropriate roles on authority. We need to respect authority. But I don’t see how we should tolerate it’s abuse. Authority has an appropriate role. But abuse lives in the dark, in the hush… I think if we recognize whose authority is first…ie Jesus…it keeps all other authority in the appropriate context.
-Finally a thought to be constructive. Could we as the laity help relieve some of the administrative roles of the priest so they could focus on spiritual? I know some priests who are so busy, I think they have a hard time maintaining their own prayer life!
If men are requested to give up their lives for God they want to be giving them up for something much more than popular opinion, but to for truth! Let’s do what we can to help!
-I think we have gone away from truth. Without truth there is nothing but opinions. I think a healthy balance between truth and opinion is important, but in some ways I think wave neglected truth. The last I heard it was what 60% of Catholics don’t believe in the real prescience? I think we have to get on this stuff.
-I think as the laity really should really look at home ourselves. I think priests are often criticized for unnecessary things. I sometimes hear some things and really think…does this person just have nothing to do? Again I think a healthy degree of constructive criticism is good. But it needs to be appropriate and faith minded.
-In general I think we have moved away from appropriate respect for the prayer and the sacraments, especially the Eucharist and confession. The priests primary concern should be for the souls in his care. If we aren’t respecting the sacraments and prayer we are making his job nearly impossible.
-Im still debating here and working this out in my own mind…but I think we have a problem with authority. People become offended too easily on the topics of sin. If the priests address sin it’s as if they are hurting some. What’s better, to tell someone kindly that they should change a really unhealthy habit for their own good. Or never say anything? I heard a homily on abortion recently, which was the first time in a loooooooong time.
-I also think we, laity and clergy, are having a hard time with appropriate roles on authority. We need to respect authority. But I don’t see how we should tolerate it’s abuse. Authority has an appropriate role. But abuse lives in the dark, in the hush… I think if we recognize whose authority is first…ie Jesus…it keeps all other authority in the appropriate context.
-Finally a thought to be constructive. Could we as the laity help relieve some of the administrative roles of the priest so they could focus on spiritual? I know some priests who are so busy, I think they have a hard time maintaining their own prayer life!
If men are requested to give up their lives for God they want to be giving them up for something much more than popular opinion, but to for truth! Let’s do what we can to help!
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
This sounds more like a error based on a misunderstanding of what co-authoring a book means.
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godisgood77
Guest
Fair enough. The pope emeritus cleared this confusion up week or so ago. I was merely pointing out that the author of this article continues to propagate something that is false. Frankly he should know better and shouldn’t spread this falsehood.
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OKComputer
Guest
This is the best response I think I’ve ever read here. No matter what they do, busybodies will wave their finger in the poor priests face, just pestering them. Thank goodness the priest doesn’t come to their job and bother them.
Frankly, we need to leave our priests alone.
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Divine3
Guest
Excellent article. This also began in 2002 and those bishops should have gone to jail for their priests. Even Jesus never betrayed the evil minded Judas.
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po18guy
Well-known member
- What, is there a Priest’s March for Reproductive Rights in Washington DC or something? Good grief!
- Why are those NOT affected by the vows soooooo worried about those who receive the grace to live those vows?
- NCR or not, it is part of mass media, and hyping stories, puffing them up, sensationalizing - even if only a small amount, is how they survive. It is their raison d’être
It may or may not be ignorance, but it is certainly more blissful.
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Divine3
Guest
I agree that priests are called to serve and saint John Paul every time he came to the USA was an example of what a priest is called to be. Dedicated to the Mother of God, open always to the laity…he was a teacher and did not fear questions or concerns of the laity. He loved the poor, he was ecumenical without ever sacrificing the truth of our faith, he was a man who could forgive as well as ask forgiveness in the name of the Church. St. John Paul knew how to speak to the sacredness of life as well as to a woman feeling abandoned and looking to abort her child. He knew how to reach out to our youth and he knew how to promote family life. He worked for justice and knew how to work against communism. St. John Paul was an example of being faithful to prayer, to mass and adoration of the holy Eucharist. He didn’t need to call our attention constantly to global warming or the environment because his actions witnessed his respect for creation, by his desire to immerse himself in the gift of God’s beautiful creation - his hiking, his skiing and bringing youth on journeys up mountains and in boats on lakes as he related to them as friend, “uncle” and teacher.
Yet, a priest is always persona Christi “in the person of Christ” and yes, because of his baptism as well as ordination…he is priest, prophet and king…and we too share in our baptism as priest, prophet and king.k
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Quite a presumption.
I personally know dozens and dozens of priests, I have met exactly 1 who was “in the doldrums” and he is no longer a priest.
The priests and seminarians I know are full of love and joy.
I personally know dozens and dozens of priests, I have met exactly 1 who was “in the doldrums” and he is no longer a priest.
The priests and seminarians I know are full of love and joy.
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Servant31
Guest
I thought about this a bit last night and wanted to add a piece I saw from a priest who died and met Jesus. The first is a presentation he gave in New Zeland. The second is on EWTN.
I want to point out I’m not trying to be critical personally, I think we all have some changes to make. But I think we sometimes focus on the wrong things. Sometimes to get to the core of a problem we have to focus on the uncomfortable points. Let’s get to the right ones and support each other in the battle!
Edit: I also want to point out, most of the priests I have met have been some of the most caring and inspiring people in my life. I can’t thank many of them enough. Most of you are massive figures in my life. I say these things not to be critical but because I care.
I want to point out I’m not trying to be critical personally, I think we all have some changes to make. But I think we sometimes focus on the wrong things. Sometimes to get to the core of a problem we have to focus on the uncomfortable points. Let’s get to the right ones and support each other in the battle!
Edit: I also want to point out, most of the priests I have met have been some of the most caring and inspiring people in my life. I can’t thank many of them enough. Most of you are massive figures in my life. I say these things not to be critical but because I care.
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This is a huge point. Years ago, a priest friend of mine said he wished he had the resources to hire a Chief Operating Officer for his parish - in his words, “I didn’t spend eight years in the seminary to spend all my time doing paperwork that could be better done by a trained layman.”
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tafan2
Guest
The line about diocesan officials not understanding the principle of subsidiarity is, in my experience, spot on.
I must say that I do not get the feeling around here that morale among our priests is that low. It was around 15-20 years ago. Our last two bishops have improved the situation from what I can tell.
I must say that I do not get the feeling around here that morale among our priests is that low. It was around 15-20 years ago. Our last two bishops have improved the situation from what I can tell.
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Servant31
Guest
I agree in large part. I think the laity is overly critical in a broad variety of ways. Unfortunately I think this divides into two extreme ends of the spectrum camps. Never ending criticism about nit picky stuff…and the other is never give feedback at all, an almost blind obsequiousness to any authority. I personally just don’t think either is wholly appropriate.
As the laity I think we should be ready to listen to spiritual feedback. That’s the priests job. We really need to respect his role. Sometimes though, if something is truly incorrect, we need to do our best in faith based correction.
This isn’t about if Fr.s homily wasn’t personally emotionally enthralling or entertaining. However if there is something doctrinally clearly incorrect being preached week after week, I don’t think it’s bad to CHARITABLY (sorry I can’t find the italics, so used caps) bring it to light.
As the laity I think we should be ready to listen to spiritual feedback. That’s the priests job. We really need to respect his role. Sometimes though, if something is truly incorrect, we need to do our best in faith based correction.
This isn’t about if Fr.s homily wasn’t personally emotionally enthralling or entertaining. However if there is something doctrinally clearly incorrect being preached week after week, I don’t think it’s bad to CHARITABLY (sorry I can’t find the italics, so used caps) bring it to light.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
What a horribly uncharitable and slanderous thing to say!
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tafan2
Guest
I agree!!!
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OKComputer
Guest
We are in complete agreement.
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InThePew
Guest
To me the article reads like yet another beat up on the bishop type of thing - as one of my teachers in the seminary used to say, who’d be a bishop! As is often said, the hardest promise for priests to keep isn’t celibacy, it’s obedience! Grated, there are sadly some bishops who seem to be oblivious to the concerns of their priests just as their are priests who seem to have the sole purpose in life of making the bishop’s job as difficult as possible (and even seminarians who are more interested in cassocks and devotions than pastoral ministry). Thankfully though, while such people do certainly exist there are fortunately very much the exception rather than the rule.
Certainly, in my diocese though (and others around it) the bishop only intervenes in a parish when things get really, truly awfully bad. Sure, the bishop will speak to the priest and try to help him but removal to the “gulags” (for anger-management or anything else) is definitely a last resort. Sadly, I’ve heard far to many horror stories about priests causing chaos in a parish and, if anything, have to ask why on earth things were allowed to continue as long as they did? Of course that just goes to show that Bishops (much more than priests) are damned either way! If a priest is removed, he’s still the bishop’s problem - he’s still entitled to support from the diocese which almost certainly needs all the priests it has!
Sometimes I’m frustrated about the direction (or lack thereof) of my diocese, I wish my bishop would just sort some things out, decisively once and for all. That said, I’m also grateful I don’t have his job - anyone who wants to be a bishop has automatically ruled themselves out on the grounds of insanity! When people get worked up about something they’ll write to the bishop. In days gone by this required getting a pen, sitting down, writing a letter, finding an envelope and a stamp and walking to the mailbox if the person hasn’t forgotten what they were going to say or just got bored and moved on! Now, it’s more like fire of and e-mail in 15 minutes or less!
At the end of the day, I made a promise to be obedient to to my bishop and I like to think I meant it. that doesn’t mean I should be some sort of nodding automaton, I’ll speak my mind but at the end of the day, I just try and do my job as best I can and not get in the way of my bishop doing his.
Certainly, in my diocese though (and others around it) the bishop only intervenes in a parish when things get really, truly awfully bad. Sure, the bishop will speak to the priest and try to help him but removal to the “gulags” (for anger-management or anything else) is definitely a last resort. Sadly, I’ve heard far to many horror stories about priests causing chaos in a parish and, if anything, have to ask why on earth things were allowed to continue as long as they did? Of course that just goes to show that Bishops (much more than priests) are damned either way! If a priest is removed, he’s still the bishop’s problem - he’s still entitled to support from the diocese which almost certainly needs all the priests it has!
Sometimes I’m frustrated about the direction (or lack thereof) of my diocese, I wish my bishop would just sort some things out, decisively once and for all. That said, I’m also grateful I don’t have his job - anyone who wants to be a bishop has automatically ruled themselves out on the grounds of insanity! When people get worked up about something they’ll write to the bishop. In days gone by this required getting a pen, sitting down, writing a letter, finding an envelope and a stamp and walking to the mailbox if the person hasn’t forgotten what they were going to say or just got bored and moved on! Now, it’s more like fire of and e-mail in 15 minutes or less!
At the end of the day, I made a promise to be obedient to to my bishop and I like to think I meant it. that doesn’t mean I should be some sort of nodding automaton, I’ll speak my mind but at the end of the day, I just try and do my job as best I can and not get in the way of my bishop doing his.
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