Why Protestants need to know the Deuterocanonicals

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In the thread about whether a Catholic should read the King James Version of the Bible, I put forth the argument that culturally, the KJV was the source of many literary and artistic references in English. That got me thinking about the influence of the Deuterocanonicals. My first contact with them, as a Lutheran, was through art. Who was this guy Tobit, why was he always pictured leaving home, who was that other guy who was always with him? It turns out that the Book of Tobit introduced the idea of guardian angels. So when you hear a Protestant speak about his or her guardian angel, you can thank them for alluding to the Deuterocanon. Add to this giving the names Tobias and Tobit to English. Anyone collect Toby jugs? Then there are all the variations on the name Susannah. Any Protestant named Sue, Susan, Suzie, or any of the other versions of the name has a connection to the Deuteterocanon. I am sure that you can add to this list. I look forward to your answers.

God’s Peace,
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
In the thread about whether a Catholic should read the King James Version of the Bible, I put forth the argument that culturally, the KJV was the source of many literary and artistic references in English. That got me thinking about the influence of the Deuterocanonicals. My first contact with them, as a Lutheran, was through art. Who was this guy Tobit, why was he always pictured leaving home, who was that other guy who was always with him? It turns out that the Book of Tobit introduced the idea of guardian angels. So when you hear a Protestant speak about his or her guardian angel, you can thank them for alluding to the Deuterocanon. Add to this giving the names Tobias and Tobit to English. Anyone collect Toby jugs? Then there are all the variations on the name Susannah. Any Protestant named Sue, Susan, Suzie, or any of the other versions of the name has a connection to the Deuteterocanon. I am sure that you can add to this list. I look forward to your answers.

God’s Peace,
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Are you saying you believe the Deuterocanonical books are inspired?
 
qui_est_ce said:
Are you saying you believe the Deuterocanonical books are inspired?
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🙂 How did you get that from his post? The most he said was “That [the discussion about the cultural influence of the KJV] got me thinking about the influence of the Deuterocanonicals.”

Sticking with the main topic of the thread, I have one example. It is the story in Mark 12:18-27 where the Sadducees are arguing with Jesus:
18 Some Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection) came to Jesus, and began questioning Him, saying, 19 “Teacher, Moses wrote for us that If a man’s brother dies and leaves behind a wife and leaves no child , his brother should marry the wife and raise up children to his brother 20 “There were seven brothers; and the first took a wife, and died leaving no children. 21 “The second one married her, and died leaving behind no children; and the third likewise; 22 and so all seven left no children. Last of all the woman died also. 23 “In the resurrection, when they rise again, which one’s wife will she be? For all seven had married her.” 24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that **you do not understand the Scriptures **or the power of God? 25 “For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 “But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob’? 27 “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken.”
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The Sadducee’s (in their eyes, ridiculous) example meant to ridicule Jesus’ teaching about the Resurrection of the dead is clearly a reference to Tobit chapter 3. The interesting thing is that, when the Sadducees bring this story up to trap Jesus, Jesus slams them because they do not know the Scriptures. Like Protestants (and unlike Jesus, apparently), the Sadducees did not accept Tobit or the other deuterocanonicals as Scripture. And that was why they were sad, you see. 😉
 
Fidelis said:
🙂 How did you get that from his post? The most he said was “That [the discussion about the cultural influence of the KJV] got me thinking about the influence of the Deuterocanonicals.”
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Genuinely curious because of his Protestant affiliation.:o
Fidelis said:
Sticking with the main topic of the thread, I have one example. It is the story in Mark 12:18-27 where the Sadducees are arguing with Jesus:

The Sadducee’s (in their eyes, ridiculous) example meant to ridicule Jesus’ teaching about the Resurrection of the dead is clearly a reference to Tobit chapter 3. The interesting thing is that, when the Sadducees bring this story up to trap Jesus, Jesus slams them because they do not know the Scriptures. Like Protestants (and unlike Jesus, apparently), the Sadducees did not accept Tobit or the other deuterocanonicals as Scripture. And that was why they were sad, you see. 😉
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LOL
 
Why are you busying yourself with protestants, they are not members of the Church jesus requested St Peter set up and will not be ready for the second coming nor will they be enteratined by Jesus when he returns.
 
i am from the church jeremiah started but i would rather them be catholics than lutherans
 
My question is a simple one, not rising near the level of whether the Deuterocanon is inspired. It has had an influence on Western culture and I was interested on your take. I read the third chapter of Tobit referenced in Qui Est Ce’s post and did not notice anything other than a pretty standard Jewish view of Sheol. I missed any allusion to resurrection. A further concern is that I recently read a thread that questioned the footnotes of the NAB. I have a copy on my desk, and a Catholic relative told me this weekend he uses it. I suppose this is taking this thread afield, but I am a newbie here and am still getting up to speed. What I really was looking for was other influence the Deuterocanon has had on Western culture than the items I mentioned.

Thanks for all the responses.
God be with you.
 
ok here goes the psycho talk… macabees are important because of the lack of outright miracles the macabees is full of actions taken by the faithful usuing discernment and piety to save the other faithful. the macabees is probably one of the most influential peices of propoganda for crusade supporters. was studied daily by the knights templar(i’ve heard)
 
Just something interesting from very Lutheran Finland. The Ev. Luth. Church of Finland is actively considering placing the Deuterocanonical books in the next official text of the Bible in Finnish.

I was in a general interest book store today and noticed that there is a volume of the Deuterocanonical books in Finnish on the shelf next to the Bibles. I read the blurb on the back cover urging Lutherans who are serious students of Scripture to read them.
 
Harri_Laaksonen said:
Just something interesting from very Lutheran Finland. The Ev. Luth. Church of Finland is actively considering placing the Deuterocanonical books in the next official text of the Bible in Finnish.

I was in a general interest book store today and noticed that there is a volume of the Deuterocanonical books in Finnish on the shelf next to the Bibles. I read the blurb on the back cover urging Lutherans who are serious students of Scripture to read them.
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i know some missouri synod lutherans who read it
 
Wisdom 11:20 “… But thou hast arranged all things by measure and number and weight”. This simple little Bible verse helped inspire the philosophical underpinning that the universe was rational and consistent in mathematical terms. In other words it helped start the scientific and technological revolution in the West.
 
Some other reasons to read the Dueterocanonicals:

Sirach 15:11-22 is the clearest explanation of free will in all of scripture. This undermines much of Luther’s and especially Calvin’s theology of predestination. Early Christians used this book almost as a catechism so I don’t buy the idea that original Christians would have discarded these verses as uninspired.

Wisdom chapter 2 contains one of the most accurate and chilling prophecies of the crucifiction from the point of view of the Pharisees.

Tobit has the only mention in scripture of a third Archangel, Raphael.

Judith is another example of a type of Virgin Mary - a woman who ‘crushes the head’ of the enemy.
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
In the thread about whether a Catholic should read the King James Version of the Bible, I put forth the argument that culturally, the KJV was the source of many literary and artistic references in English. That got me thinking about the influence of the Deuterocanonicals. My first contact with them, as a Lutheran, was through art. Who was this guy Tobit, why was he always pictured leaving home, who was that other guy who was always with him? It turns out that the Book of Tobit introduced the idea of guardian angels. So when you hear a Protestant speak about his or her guardian angel, you can thank them for alluding to the Deuterocanon. Add to this giving the names Tobias and Tobit to English. Anyone collect Toby jugs? Then there are all the variations on the name Susannah. Any Protestant named Sue, Susan, Suzie, or any of the other versions of the name has a connection to the Deuteterocanon. I am sure that you can add to this list. I look forward to your answers.

God’s Peace,
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You have to remember that the Deuterocanonical books were included in all bibles up until the 19th century.
The real question is, by what authority were books of the bible removed 19 centuries after Christ and the Apostles were here?
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
My question is a simple one, not rising near the level of whether the Deuterocanon is inspired. It has had an influence on Western culture and I was interested on your take. I read the third chapter of Tobit referenced in Qui Est Ce’s post and did not notice anything other than a pretty standard Jewish view of Sheol. I missed any allusion to resurrection. A further concern is that I recently read a thread that questioned the footnotes of the NAB. I have a copy on my desk, and a Catholic relative told me this weekend he uses it. I suppose this is taking this thread afield, but I am a newbie here and am still getting up to speed. What I really was looking for was other influence the Deuterocanon has had on Western culture than the items I mentioned.

Thanks for all the responses.
God be with you.
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Sorry I couldn’t help you, but at least I got a laugh out of Qui Est Ce! 😃
 
Anglicans consider Deuterocanonical books part of Scriptures, though some Anglicans don’t consider them authoritative for binding doctrines. The Deuterocanonicals are also part of lectionary readings for the Anglicans as well.
The early Calvinists and Puritans in the UK also read the Deuterocanonical books.
 
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