Why "revert" and not "convert"?

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Sister_Amy said:
A number of ‘ulema’? Like 1? That’s a number. 2? Another number. 3? Help me out here.
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The hadith “women are deficient in intelligence and religion.”
Subhanallah, there was a woman who went to the madrasa of Muhammad, saaws, and was a teacher of Sahaba and Tabi’een.
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of hadith. In the biographical dictionaries of the transmittersers, the woman are in a section of their own at the end.

Not in fiqh.
A man is a fool who says a woman cannot teach, because a woman is a school. She is half the ummah and gives birth to the other half and in that way is the whole ummah. So a man who denies women the ability to teach has doomed his nation to ignorance.
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At least one of those women on that list was a mufti.

I want to say something interesting though, since I’m a woman.

I have a wonderful sheikh, and I’ve been able to attend classes with some wonderful scholars, really wonderful.

But I spent less than an hour listening to 1 woman teacher of Islam named Iman Badawi. And what she taught me has been more meaningful and deep than what I’ve learned in years and hours from other scholars.

There are universities all around the Muslim world for not just men, but women as well, to learn Islam. All-girl universities for the study of Islam. There are plenty of women who are becoming scholars. Traditionally there was a lack of women who studied and that is a failing of the Muslim community. But you will not find scholars today who think that women are incapable of learning and teaching Islam.

And I fully intend to be one such woman bi idhnillah.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You really sound like you wish you had a religion as wonderful and comprehensive and practical and sensible as Islam. 🙂
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Thanks but no thanks! :eek: Most of us would rather die than deny the one true Catholic religion and embrace an inferior and superstitious religion like Islam which sanctions the drinking of camel ****, “temporary marriage” a.k.a. Islamic prostitution, slaughtering non-believers, marrying nine-year olds, polygamy, beating one’s wife, a purely carnal concept of afterlife consisting of endless sex with “virgins” (houris), wine, and extravagant gardens and, other things, venerating a black meteorite (leftover of paganism) and worshiping a nonsensical and incoherent book that was uttered by an illiterate and lecherous warlord (swt :rolleyes: ) who was probably hallucinating due to lack of water and/or ingesting hashish.

P.S. Sister Amy, you need to remove the video in your signature…music is forbidden in Islam.
 
The prohibition of music in Islam is apparently disputed, if what my Muslim friends have told me is true. I have tried to raise this issue here before, but found no takers among the Muslims. Hmmm…perhaps they are ashamed of such a stupid (albeit disputed) prohibition from their “sensible” religion. I know I would be if I were them!
 
When it comes to music that encourages or describes violence, immorality, drugs, or anything else which is forbidden, that music is also forbidden.

And there is no dispute about that. No dispute.

There is only dispute about “music” which is devoid of any thing already prohibited, like in the video. I’m not personally convinced that music is just across the board forbidden, I know there is evidence for it but I’m just not convinced. When it comes to the music which you hear on the radio and so forth–there’s no question about that, though.
 
dzheremi said:
The prohibition of music in Islam is apparently disputed, if what my Muslim friends have told me is true. I have tried to raise this issue here before, but found no takers among the Muslims. Hmmm…perhaps they are ashamed of such a stupid (albeit disputed) prohibition from their “sensible” religion. I know I would be if I were them!
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Honestly, I grew up playing piano and clarinet and always had a love for music.

But I don’t think that a prohibition on music is stupid at all, in fact I think it makes a lot of sense. I’m not convinced that all music is prohibited but I know how music affects me, and I really don’t think it is stupid to be prohibited. Seriously.
 
According to some sources, all but the tambourine are forbidden to play. No reason why other than “the prrophet says so” (since obviously the act of touching a musical instrument cannot be in itself a cause of immorality, since sound itself does not encourage the actions that songs on the radio might endorse). According to others, the view that music is allowed has no firm basis. And then of course there are others who say that music is not prohibited at all in Islam. Islam is clearly divided on this issue.
 
dzheremi said:
According to some sources, all but the tambourine are forbidden to play. No reason why other than “the prrophet says so” (since obviously the act of touching a musical instrument cannot be in itself a cause of immorality, since sound itself does not encourage the actions that songs on the radio might endorse). According to others, the view that music is allowed has no firm basis. And then of course there are others who say that music is not prohibited at all in Islam. Islam is clearly divided on this issue.
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Islam is clearly divided?

LOL

One wonder of the internet is that you can put a site of a complete minority fringe group like submission.org beside a respected site like islamqa.com.

Islam is not divided on the issue of music. Some Muslims are, but it is not a matter of creed and frankly is a very minor issue. Islam, unlike some other religions, actually tolerates some diverse differences of opinion.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Islam is not divided on the issue of music. Some Muslims are, but it is not a matter of creed and frankly is a very minor issue. Islam, unlike some other religions, actually tolerates some diverse differences of opinion.
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Do you ever watch or read the news, Sister Amy? Apparently you haven’t been paying attention. Muslims are constantly **killing ** eachother and non-Muslims over “diverse differences of opinion”, so this statement is laughable.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Islam is clearly divided?

LOL

One wonder of the internet is that you can put a site of a complete minority fringe group like submission.org beside a respected site like islamqa.com.

Islam is not divided on the issue of music. Some Muslims are, but it is not a matter of creed and frankly is a very minor issue. Islam, unlike some other religions, actually tolerates some diverse differences of opinion.
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I have no idea who or what is respected in Islamic internet circles, Amy. Those were just three results that came up on Google when I typed in “Islamic music prohibition” that show a range of opinions that I have also found among people I actually know. I personally actually agree (that Islam does prohibit music), but to pretend as though all are in agreement on this issue is not honest.

For a minor issue, there do seem to be a lot of websites that concern themselves with this issue, so clearly it is important to Muslims in their everyday lives, if not a major point of doctrine.

Other sites and postings found on Google for “is music haram”:

themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/music.html
geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/music.html
islamawareness.net/Music/music_fatwa005.html
jamaat.org/qa/music.html
islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8695
shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm

From what these links show, it seems like most schools of Islamic thought do agree that music is haram, and yet there is variation: vocal music is permissable, vocal and tambourine music is permissable, no music is permissable, music in and of itself is not haram (according to the sufi page), etc. It makes no difference to me if Muslims think music halal or haram, except to the extent that musicians and singers all across the Muslim world are being threatened, physically punished, and even occasionally murdered. That is not okay in any way, and is especially heinous if what you say about this being a “minor” issue is true.
 
dzheremi said:
It makes no difference to me if Muslims think music halal or haram, except to the extent that musicians and singers all across the Muslim world are being threatened, physically punished, and even occasionally murdered. That is not okay in any way, and is especially heinous if what you say about this being a “minor” issue is true.
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That can’t be the case, Dzheremi! According to Sister Amy, Islam, unlike “other religions”, tolerates minor “differences of opinion” like whether or not music is haram. :cool:
 
Psalter said:
Do you ever watch or read the news, Sister Amy? Apparently you haven’t been paying attention. Muslims are constantly **killing ** eachother and non-Muslims over “diverse differences of opinion”, so this statement is laughable.
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You can laugh if you want but it won’t impress me. If you think that Muslims are killing each other because scholars disagree about the permissibility of music, then it’s I who should laugh at you, but I actually feel sorry for you.
 
dzheremi said:
I have no idea who or what is respected in Islamic internet circles, Amy. Those were just three results that came up on Google when I typed in “Islamic music prohibition” that show a range of opinions that I have also found among people I actually know. I personally actually agree (that Islam does prohibit music), but to pretend as though all are in agreement on this issue is not honest.

For a minor issue, there do seem to be a lot of websites that concern themselves with this issue, so clearly it is important to Muslims in their everyday lives, if not a major point of doctrine.

Other sites and postings found on Google for “is music haram”:

themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/music.html
geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/music.html
islamawareness.net/Music/music_fatwa005.html
jamaat.org/qa/music.html
islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8695
shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm

From what these links show, it seems like most schools of Islamic thought do agree that music is haram, and yet there is variation: vocal music is permissable, vocal and tambourine music is permissable, no music is permissable, music in and of itself is not haram (according to the sufi page), etc. It makes no difference to me if Muslims think music halal or haram, except to the extent that musicians and singers all across the Muslim world are being threatened, physically punished, and even occasionally murdered. That is not okay in any way, and is especially heinous if what you say about this being a “minor” issue is true.
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Okay, don’t ask me any more questions about Islam. Just go ask Sheikh Google. 😃

There are musicians and singers all across the Muslim world–men and even WOMEN–who seem to do just fine. I really don’t see your problem.

But I do think you ought to do yourself the favor of educating yourself about Islam. Start with the basics.
 
Psalter said:
That can’t be the case, Dzheremi! According to Sister Amy, Islam, unlike “other religions”, tolerates minor “differences of opinion” like whether or not music is haram. :cool:
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Haraam.

It is lay people who focus on this, not the scholars.
 
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