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Isa_Almisry
Guest
In history, and at the present, it has a major issue at times and places, including bloodshed.
The great singer, Umm Khulthum, a devout Muslim, made a movie on this theme “Sallamah.”
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The great singer, Umm Khulthum, a devout Muslim, made a movie on this theme “Sallamah.”
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dzheremi
Guest
Hahaha. Now that’s just silly. I am not meaning in any way to imply that Google knows best or anything like that, but the different views that are available immediately for perusal because of it are enough to make this non-Muslim wonder which of them are to be given credence. I have already stated what seems to me to be the most sensible option (that Islam does hold that music is haram), but I am simply saying that obviously others disagree.Okay, don’t ask me any more questions about Islam. Just go ask Sheikh Google.
Indeed there are, and thank the Lord for that! No one should be threatened or hurt because of their talents, if they are rightly put to use (not used to drive people away from God, which seems to be the main Islamic objection against music). And yet they are. In fact, you don’t even have to play music yourself to be under threat of violence.
If you don’t see a problem with things like this, this, this, and this then I really don’t know what to tell you. There are many, many more examples like these that I could bring to you, but I think you get my point.
I will try. I start my Arabic classes in a little less than two weeks, and I will probably check out a Quran from the library at that time, since it would be good practice for me to learn how the language works outside of my textbooks and lessons, and I would be suprised if there were an Arabic-language book more widely available in the West than the Quran.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Need any help, let me know (I teach Arabic).
As for an Arabic language book:
arb.scripturetext.com/genesis/1.htm
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Sister_Amy
Guest
I don’t know many actual scholars who dispute that music is haraam. But usually when people asking they are referring to music with haram lyrics, sounds, in haram environments, or a variety of other factors which make it haraam. Not really a big deal though.
At least I don’t see it as a big deal.
Why would people react immediately with violence? Doesn’t that seem to you to be a little weird? Do you think that’s normal?
No, I don’t get your point.
You don’t even need Arabic to learn the basics of islam, seriously. But I doubt you’ll be able to read the Qur’an with any real comprehension if you’re just taking a beginner level Arabic class.
But I’ve been wrong before.
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cathopologist
Guest
Seriously? Then why are Muslims rappers like Ghostface Killah, Busta Rhymes and Akon still rapping about violence, sex, drugs and immorality? Have you seen their music videos?
Malay-Muslims in Singapore and Malaysia love them! In fact, many Muslims (all over the world) love them, because they feel proud that Muslims are in the rap scene. Poor souls don’t know its haram.
%between%
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Just because a “Muslim” does something doesn’t mean it’s not haraam. And no I definitely haven’t seen their music videos. Music is haraam right? lol. Seriously though, for me music is me playing piano, or listening to something upbeat (without haraam lyrics) while working out. And I’m trying to cut even that out.Seriously? Then why are Muslims rappers like Ghostface Killah, Busta Rhymes and Akon still rapping about violence, sex, drugs and immorality? Have you seen their music videos?
Maybe you should inform them.Malay-Muslims in Singapore and Malaysia love them! In fact, many Muslims (all over the world) love them, because they feel proud that Muslims are in the rap scene. Poor souls don’t know its haram.
%between%
The rap scene is embarrassing, I can’t imagine why anyone would be proud of it at all.
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Americanrevert
Guest
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Why do you say “Muslim rappers”? Do you have any “Christian rappers” “Jewish rappers” that speak vulgar terminology? You even see them wearing crosses around their necks…and this says or states what??
Musical instruments are haram in Islam. You don’t have to accept it but there are sahih ahadith that state so…and verses from the Quran that state “idol talk” refers to singing and useless speaking" by the top sahabas who gave the exegesis on them.
So, how many Christians are “backslidden”??? Sheesh, there are good and bad, confused, messed up, mixed up people all over the globe…but people just have to put Muslim in front of Muslims don’t they!!! grrrrr that pisses me off all the time…as if these messed up people are representing the religion! sheesh give me a break!
americanrevert**
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Why do you say “Muslim rappers”? Do you have any “Christian rappers” “Jewish rappers” that speak vulgar terminology? You even see them wearing crosses around their necks…and this says or states what??
Musical instruments are haram in Islam. You don’t have to accept it but there are sahih ahadith that state so…and verses from the Quran that state “idol talk” refers to singing and useless speaking" by the top sahabas who gave the exegesis on them.
So, how many Christians are “backslidden”??? Sheesh, there are good and bad, confused, messed up, mixed up people all over the globe…but people just have to put Muslim in front of Muslims don’t they!!! grrrrr that pisses me off all the time…as if these messed up people are representing the religion! sheesh give me a break!
americanrevert**
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dzheremi
Guest
Did you actually look at any of the links? Many of them were discussing the act of playing instruments (not necessarily with singing, though that is also discussed), and even one of them was Iranian authorities banning an instrumental music album. “Haram” sound, I guess. I won’t pretend to understand it, and I guess it’s only a “big deal” for you if you play an instrument, sing, or listen to music in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia or somewhere else where Muslims are apparently ready to stab you to death or bomb your business over what you claim is a minor issue.
That’s my point: These aren’t things that normal people do, and yet it happens in Islam, all over doctrinal differences. It’s not as if Maryam Mursal or Mohammad Reza Lofti are not Muslims, yet in Somalia, Mursal’s home country (and the place of origin of the Muslim Swedes in the linked news story I provided in my last post who tried to bring their prohibition of Islam into Sweden, to continue to intimidate people there), and in Iran, Lofti’s home country, people take this minor issue as reason to ban women from singing (link), to arrest members of musical groups (link), and to torture and kill people.
That threatening, beating, bombing, and killing people over a prohibition on music that not even all Muslims agree on and you maintain is a relatively minor matter is barbaric and evil.
I know, but it couldn’t hurt.
Again, it couldn’t hurt to try. I’m not actually terribly excited to read the Quran, I just figure it’s the most widely available Arabic-language book around, and the one with the most commentary written on it. If I can learn anything out of it, it will be good. I won’t delude myself into thinking I will be able to understand much of anything at such a basic level, but in terms of the basics of word and sentence formation, it may help.
And certainly it will help me to learn general Semitic language universals or near universals that can help me with my Amharic studies.
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cathopologist
Guest
At least we agree with something. I have informed them though, but what else can i do if they refuse to listen?Maybe you should inform them.
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dzheremi
Guest
Shukran, Isa!
You bring up a good point. Perhaps I should try to find an Arabic Bible so that my Muslim friends won’t think I am converting if they see me studying a Quran.
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cathopologist
Guest
**Why do you say “Muslim rappers”? Do you have any “Christian rappers” “Jewish rappers” that speak vulgar terminology? You even see them wearing crosses around their necks…and this says or states what??
**Then write to Wikipedia. They are the ones who produce that information. But that is besides the point. Muslims all over gloat on the Muslim rappers success, probably because they feel proud that Muslims are making waves in the music industry. We do have Christian rappers i believe, but not the usual mainstream ones. They sing mostly about God. I’m not a fan of rap music. Whether Christian or not. Wearing cross does not make one a Christian. Are you aware that even Satanists wear crosses? **
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Two of our Singapore Idols are Malay-Muslims. They are pious because they do visit mosques and are used as examples for the youth here. Perhaps you should write to the mosques here and explain why they should discontinue using false exemplary methods.
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Why are you getting mad because Muslims themselves promote these so-called Muslims? If you wish to be mad, be mad at your fellow Muslims. This is of course not in any way saying Christian musicians are any better. Fundamentalists in the past used to praise Amy Grant so much it sickened me. Why are they not doing that now? God is my only “Idol”, not some musician or actor.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Actually there’s lots of pop Christian singers here.**
**Then write to Wikipedia. They are the ones who produce that information. But that is besides the point. Muslims all over gloat on the Muslim rappers success, probably because they feel proud that Muslims are making waves in the music industry. We do have Christian rappers i believe, but not the usual mainstream ones. They sing mostly about God. I’m not a fan of rap music. Whether Christian or not. Wearing cross does not make one a Christian. Are you aware that even Satanists wear crosses? **
Two of our Singapore Idols are Malay-Muslims. They are pious because they do visit mosques and are used as examples for the youth here. Perhaps you should write to the mosques here and explain why they should discontinue using false exemplary methods.
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Why are you getting mad because Muslims themselves promote these so-called Muslims? If you wish to be mad, be mad at your fellow Muslims. This is of course not in any way saying Christian musicians are any better. Fundamentalists in the past used to praise Amy Grant so much it sickened me. Why are they not doing that now? God is my only “Idol”, not some musician or actor.
Especially in the country music scene, actually–people who generally think they are especially religious and they will listen to one song talking about going to church and follow it up with a song about getting drunk. And sometimes both topics show up in the same song.
But there’s “Contemporary Christian” as a genre of Christian pop. I used to listen to that stuff when I was a Christian… lol.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Pray for them?
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Sister_Amy
Guest
No I didn’t look at the links.
But I’m well aware of the arguments for or against music in Islam. There are some scholars and students of knowledge whom I tremendously respect, who say that music is the voice of the devil. Seriously. The only kind of “music” which is considered to be without a doubt permissible is drums and vocals. And not female vocals in front of men. (I.e., I have sung at a Muslim event but it was only in front of other women.)The issue of music being haraam though shouldn’t be a major issue. It’s really something minor. Something major is like, praying five times a day. Being kind to parents. Those are major. Lying about people, that is major. Killing and tortuing people, that’s major.
But music? Minor. It doesn’t deserve the response you are implying it receives.
Barbaric and evil? Trust me there are lots of barbaric and evil things in the world. I don’t think it’s good that people are being threatened, beat, or bombed or killed over music. But frankly it shows bigger problems to me than this issue of music. So I maintain that music is a minor issue, and that these Muslims might misunderstand the more fundamental principles of their own religion.
And certainly it will help me to learn general Semitic language universals or near universals that can help me with my Amharic studies.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Amharic or Aramaic?Did you actually look at any of the links? Many of them were discussing the act of playing instruments (not necessarily with singing, though that is also discussed), and even one of them was Iranian authorities banning an instrumental music album. “Haram” sound, I guess. I won’t pretend to understand it, and I guess it’s only a “big deal” for you if you play an instrument, sing, or listen to music in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia or somewhere else where Muslims are apparently ready to stab you to death or bomb your business over what you claim is a minor issue.
That’s my point: These aren’t things that normal people do, and yet it happens in Islam, all over doctrinal differences. It’s not as if Maryam Mursal or Mohammad Reza Lofti are not Muslims, yet in Somalia, Mursal’s home country (and the place of origin of the Muslim Swedes in the linked news story I provided in my last post who tried to bring their prohibition of Islam into Sweden, to continue to intimidate people there), and in Iran, Lofti’s home country, people take this minor issue as reason to ban women from singing (link), to arrest members of musical groups (link), and to torture and kill people.
That threatening, beating, bombing, and killing people over a prohibition on music that not even all Muslims agree on and you maintain is a relatively minor matter is barbaric and evil.
I know, but it couldn’t hurt.
Again, it couldn’t hurt to try. I’m not actually terribly excited to read the Quran, I just figure it’s the most widely available Arabic-language book around, and the one with the most commentary written on it. If I can learn anything out of it, it will be good. I won’t delude myself into thinking I will be able to understand much of anything at such a basic level, but in terms of the basics of word and sentence formation, it may help.
And certainly it will help me to learn general Semitic language universals or near universals that can help me with my Amharic studies.
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dzheremi
Guest
Amharic. Aramaic would be interesting too, but Amharic found me first (and is much more useful in my home area).
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Now I’m intrigued (I’m starting working through Lambton’s Giiz grammar. My degree is from the University of Chicago in Near Eastern Languages and Cultures. Amharic is one language I only dealt with in passing: Hamito-Semitic study).
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dzheremi
Guest
Ah. Interesting.
My interest in Amharic is mostly personal, a result of friendly contact with the Ethiopian community in my home area of northern California.
Lambdin’s Ge’ez grammar is apparently quite good. I’ll probably end up picking up a copy of it once I have enough basic knowledge to make sense of it (currently I’m trying my best with Bezza Tesfaw Ayalew’s “Let’s Speak Amharic” text and Leslau’s Amharic-English dictionary). I’d be interested to hear what you think of it, once you’ve made your way through it.
My interest in Amharic is mostly personal, a result of friendly contact with the Ethiopian community in my home area of northern California.
Lambdin’s Ge’ez grammar is apparently quite good. I’ll probably end up picking up a copy of it once I have enough basic knowledge to make sense of it (currently I’m trying my best with Bezza Tesfaw Ayalew’s “Let’s Speak Amharic” text and Leslau’s Amharic-English dictionary). I’d be interested to hear what you think of it, once you’ve made your way through it.
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Americanrevert
Guest
**Hello,
I used to play the Piano, sing, go to Christian tournaments and also went to Jamaica with my gospel choir from Church. I was in the school choir/chorus all my life and went to concerts, tournaments and the like. I have a mother that plays the organ for church. I have a father that sang in a gospel quartet when I was growin up and now sings even without music in front of his congregation in the country. My brother plays the drums my sister plays the clarinet and I was the piano player like my mother. So, you can’t tell me it wasn’t a big deal. It was…but I prefer to listen and obey my Creator and His Last Message. This is more important. Music just takes one away from the Quran.
Sure, there are scholars but the top top ahul ahadith beat them when they bring the proof.
The Majority of Muslims do not follow exactly the way the last message of Allah says. They will be judged accordingly.
( One of my points about the cross wearers…but not all are satanists )
americanmuslim**
I used to play the Piano, sing, go to Christian tournaments and also went to Jamaica with my gospel choir from Church. I was in the school choir/chorus all my life and went to concerts, tournaments and the like. I have a mother that plays the organ for church. I have a father that sang in a gospel quartet when I was growin up and now sings even without music in front of his congregation in the country. My brother plays the drums my sister plays the clarinet and I was the piano player like my mother. So, you can’t tell me it wasn’t a big deal. It was…but I prefer to listen and obey my Creator and His Last Message.
This is more important. Music just takes one away from the Quran.Sure, there are scholars but the top top ahul ahadith beat them when they bring the proof.
l
The Majority of Muslims do not follow exactly the way the last message of Allah says. They will be judged accordingly.
( One of my points about the cross wearers…but not all are satanists
)Well, just because someone visits a mosque does not mean they are pious. Yes, according to the sahihaan, the difference between a disbeliever and a believer is their prayer…but I don’t speak for them do I. During the time of Mohammad sallaAllahu 'alayhi wa sellem there were many hypocrites and they also went to the musjids. This doesn’t prove their imaan (belief). Look at those who go to the church…when they leave…well, everyone knows.
Because they are just plain ignorant. They may bring it to attention, but the *MEDIA PROMOTES IT, HYPES IT, PLAYS IT CONSTANTLY AND ALSO ADDS WHAT THEY WISH TO IT AND MOSTLY JUST PLAIN IGNORANT PROPAGANDA AND LIES ABOUT THE RELIGION!!! * That is what pisses me off. I am mad at the ignorant muslims. I don’t get so upset when I speak with ignorant Christians about Islam, but when I speak with ignorant Muslims about their OWN religion, this really makes my blood boil!! A’authu billehi minishayton nirrajeem! *They have the best message in their grips and they misuse it. * But we are also warned as well how the hypocrites are as well and they will be in the lowest part of hellfire. We are also warned about the disbelievers and how they misuse Allah’s message and they also will be judged.
americanmuslim**
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