Why Saturday Mass?

[OutinChgoburbs]

Jewish Tradition? How about Catholic Tradition

Catholic tradition (and this is a small “t” not a matter of Tradition with a capital “T”) is based in Jewish tradition.

No I prefer…

So, like many Protestant sects, you only pick and choose Scripture and tradition (Church disciplines that can change) to suit your fancy? Mark 2:27 is just as valid as anything in Leviticus or Acts.

This was in 1966 BEFORE there was a Saturday Mass.She was required to quite her job and so she did and never regretted it.

Again, how nice for your aunt. This does nothing to prove or disprove that the Church is not correct in having Saturday Vigil Mass.

I have no problem with the Pope.

Then why do you think you know better than he about the practice of Saturday Vigil Mass? Here you are, complaining about it, and by extension about him, and about Pope Paul VI, and by association, John Paul I and JPII. Why is that so?

I didn’t say it was a sin. I said it was done strictly for convenience.

And so? As others have pointed out, early Sunday morning Masses could also be for conveneince, if attended with the wrong intention. For that matter, late Sunday morning Masses used to be occasions of sin for those with vanity. There used to be a later morning Mass which nobody dared attend unless dress to the max, with the latest fashionable hat and white gloves for the ladies, and only the best suits for men. People made a show of walking down the middle aisle to make sure everybody saw their finery.

Just like having Eucharist mininsters was done for convenience.

That is where you are wrong. It is NOT the same thing, and your comparison is off.

Further, if the situation of EMHC is not abused, it is certainly NOT for convenience. It is out of necessity. EMHC, for one thing, take the Eucharist to the sick and home-bound. Seems to me that this is an act of mercy, and by the way, is mentioned in ancient writings of the Church (think about young St. Tarcisius).

Again, the Church has spoken on this matter. It is not up to you. If it happens to be convenient, that is a side benefit. If people happen to abuse it, that is between those people and their confessors.

Seems to me that the act of sacrifice has vanished from the Catholic faithful.

Only if you don’t look at the generous folks out there who make sacrficies everyday. They hold jobs that protect you and yours, that make your life easier, that give you safety. They have told their stories here- stories you have ignored.

These people filling these position would have worked on Sunday during the 50s and 60s- as could have your aunt. She would have been dispensed from Mass attendance, as were they. **They also missed the opportunity to attend Mass, while serving others selflessly. **Seems to me the Saturday Vigil is a much better idea.

Jesus cured people on the Sabbath, and took care of them. The apostles plucked grain to eat. And you would know this if you read St. Mark Chapter 2.

As you don’t want any Catholics working on Sunday, I hope nothing happens to you and yours on a Sunday that requires water, electrical power, injury to your property, injury to your person or those you love. It is the people you don’t want working who take care of all that.

 

[baltobetsy]

How about changing “get it over with” to “take the first possible opportunity to fulfill one’s obligation?” I’m sure there are plenty of people in the pews on Saturday evening who want to make sure that, no matter what else happens, they have been to Mass for Sunday. Any number of things, good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant, could crop up, and if one has been to Mass on Saturday, there is no problem. And there’s nothing to stop a person from going to Mass again on Sunday if the schedule is clear.

I am a professional church musician with a job in an Episcopal church on Sunday mornings. Most of the time, I am finished in time to dash down the street to 12:30 Mass, but I never rely on that. So I attend Mass on Saturday afternoon, the first possible opportunity to fulfill my obligation, just to be sure. And when it’s possible, I dash to 12:30 Mass on Sunday as well.

Betsy

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

How about changing “get it over with” to “take the first possible opportunity to fulfill one’s obligation?” I’m sure there are plenty of people in the pews on Saturday evening who want to make sure that, no matter what else happens, they have been to Mass for Sunday. Any number of things, good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant, could crop up, and if one has been to Mass on Saturday, there is no problem. And there’s nothing to stop a person from going to Mass again on Sunday if the schedule is clear.

I am a professional church musician with a job in an Episcopal church on Sunday mornings. Most of the time, I am finished in time to dash down the street to 12:30 Mass, but I never rely on that. So I attend Mass on Saturday afternoon, the first possible opportunity to fulfill my obligation, just to be sure. And when it’s possible, I dash to 12:30 Mass on Sunday as well.

Betsy

BRAVA!

 

[laudamus_te]

Before the Saturday vigil mass was instituted (which I think is a bad idea), faithful were expected to attend Mass except in certain, necessary circumstances. I would think that a job as a doctor or nurse or firefighter would be examples of necessity.

The problem is, many Catholics hold jobs that are not so socially necessary, but they don’t think twice about working on Sunday anyway. Why? To most Catholics, Sunday is just another day. Get up, maybe go to work, go to the market, clean the house, go to a game or a movie. It’s not a special day to devote to the Lord anymore.

This is how I used to spend Sundays before I became a traditional Catholic. I liked the vigil mass because it gave me more time to do what I wanted to do on Sunday. I rarely thought twice about God. For the record, I work. My job has always required frequent Sunday work. I never used to give it a second thought. Now, however, I have told my boss of my religious beliefs and have been able to avoid working on Sunday most of the time. There is still an occasional necessity, but I always make sure to get to early Sunday mass first. If it ever comes down to “having” to work on Sundays, I will quit. Yes, it would be difficult, but I will not compromise where my faith is concerned.

Stmaria’s aunt is a fine example of how Catholics used to think - putting God first at all times, and it was often a sacrifice. Many Catholics have simply lost this attitude of “Sunday is for God” since the Saturday vigil was allowed.

Also, some of you have mentioned going to the Saturday vigil AND the Sunday morning Mass on the same weekend. Are you receiving Communion at both Masses, and if so isn’t that forbidden?

 

[djrakowski]

Before the Saturday vigil mass was instituted (which I think is a bad idea), faithful were expected to attend Mass except in certain, necessary circumstances. I would think that a job as a doctor or nurse or firefighter would be examples of necessity.

Fortunately, for those of us with difficult life circumstances (see above for references about my family situation if interested), the Church has made the Saturday Vigil option available to the faithful.

The problem is, many Catholics hold jobs that are not so socially necessary, but they don’t think twice about working on Sunday anyway. Why? To most Catholics, Sunday is just another day. Get up, maybe go to work, go to the market, clean the house, go to a game or a movie. It’s not a special day to devote to the Lord anymore.

This is how I used to spend Sundays before I became a traditional Catholic. I liked the vigil mass because it gave me more time to do what I wanted to do on Sunday. I rarely thought twice about God.

Fine - that’s how you treated it. But that’s not how I treat it, and that’s not how those who’ve posted on this thread have treated it, either. It isn’t an either/or - that is, either you go to Mass on Sunday and keep the Lord’s Day holy, or go to Mass on Saturday and treat the Lord’s Day as any other. It is quite possible to attend Mass on Sunday and still treat the rest of the day as any ol’ day.

Stmaria’s aunt is a fine example of how Catholics used to think - putting God first at all times, and it was often a sacrifice. Many Catholics have simply lost this attitude of “Sunday is for God” since the Saturday vigil was allowed.

Except that today, she’d not have to choose between her job and her commitment to Christ. She could fulfill both without compromise. That sounds like positive progress to me

Also, some of you have mentioned going to the Saturday vigil AND the Sunday morning Mass on the same weekend. Are you receiving Communion at both Masses, and if so isn’t that forbidden?

I believe the faithful are permitted to receive Holy Eucharist no more than twice a day, with the requirement being that at least one of those occasions must be in the context of Holy Mass (and not, for example, at a communion service).

 

[laudamus_te]

Fortunately, for those of us with difficult life circumstances (see above for references about my family situation if interested), the Church has made the Saturday Vigil option available to the faithful.

Yes, the Saturday Vigil is an option for those Catholics who are not following tradition. I am following tradition. But my point is that work on Sunday should be avoided, whether you go to the Saturday Vigil or not.

Fine - that’s how you treated it. But that’s not how I treat it, and that’s not how those who’ve posted on this thread have treated it, either.

Why so defensive? Did I say anything about you or anyone else here? May I not talk of my personal experience without you turning it into a condemnation of others?

Except that today, she’d not have to choose between her job and her commitment to Christ. She could fulfill both without compromise. That sounds like positive progress to me
I believe the faithful are permitted to receive Holy Eucharist no more than twice a day, with the requirement being that at least one of those occasions must be in the context of Holy Mass (and not, for example, at a communion service).

You can fulfill the committment, yes, but you are failing God by working on Sunday if it is not out of necessity. The reason for refusing to work on Sunday is not solely for being able to attend Mass, but to keep it holy by not working.

And I stand corrected about the second reception of Communion. But traditionally you cannot receive twice in one day. I follow the traditional rules.

This is a helpful link related to this topic:
fisheaters.com/lordsday.html

 

[stmaria]

This is what Pope Benedict has to say about Saturday Mass. Not exactly a ringing endorsement:

Sacramentum Caritatis 2007

Living the Sunday obligation

1. Conscious of this new vital principle which the Eucharist imparts to the Christian, the Synod Fathers reaffirmed the **importance of the Sunday obligation **for all the faithful, viewing it as a wellspring of authentic freedom enabling them to live each day in accordance with what they celebrated on “the Lord’s Day.” The life of faith is endangered when we lose the desire to share in the celebration of the Eucharist and its commemoration of the paschal victory. Participating in the Sunday liturgical assembly with all our brothers and sisters, with whom we form one body in Jesus Christ, is demanded by our Christian conscience and at the same time it forms that conscience. To lose a sense of Sunday as the Lord’s Day, a day to be sanctified, is symptomatic of the loss of an authentic sense of Christian freedom, the freedom of the children of God. (206) Here some observations made by my venerable predecessor John Paul II in his Apostolic Letter Dies Domini (207) continue to have great value. Speaking of the various dimensions of the Christian celebration of Sunday, he said that it is Dies Domini with regard to the work of creation, Dies Christi as the day of the new creation and the Risen Lord’s gift of the Holy Spirit, Dies Ecclesiae as the day on which the Christian community gathers for the celebration, and Dies hominis as the day of joy, rest and fraternal charity.

Sunday thus appears as the primordial holy day, when all believers, wherever they are found, can become heralds and guardians of the true meaning of time. It gives rise to the Christian meaning of life and a new way of experiencing time, relationships, work, life and death. On the Lord’s Day, then, it is fitting that Church groups should organize, around Sunday Mass, the activities of the Christian community: social gatherings, programmes for the faith formation of children, young people and adults, pilgrimages, charitable works, and different moments of prayer. For the sake of these important values – while recognizing that Saturday evening, beginning with First Vespers, is already a part of Sunday and a time when the Sunday obligation can be fulfilled – we need to remember that it is Sunday itself that is meant to be kept holy, lest it end up as a day “empty of God.” (208)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

 

[stmaria]

Uhhhh…I think you’re misreading the post. She is attending Mass on BOTH Saturday and Sunday. No two-fers there.

No I am not." since Saturday evening masses still fulfil the Five First Saturdays devotion given by Our Lady at Fatima. "

I believe that she should also go on Sunday to fullfill the First Five Saturday devotion.

 

[water]

why would we want to think those who go to mass not following Tradition - part of the Tradition is following the Church who is given authority by Jesus.

If the Church says Saturday is ok to go instead of Sunday, then there is no problem there. If one thinks going to Mass to get over with it, then it does not matter Saturday or Sunday - either day it is still taking out 1.5 hour from the person.

If anyone has any objection, make yourself a Pope.

 

[Glennon_P]

No I am not." since Saturday evening masses still fulfil the Five First Saturdays devotion given by Our Lady at Fatima. "

I believe that she should also go on Sunday to fullfill the First Five Saturday devotion.

Why would she need to go to Mass on Sunday to fulfill the First Saturday devotion?

 

[Cat]

I think this thread should be closed by the Moderators.

The Church has declared that Catholics may attend either Saturday vigil Mass or Sunday Mass to fulfill their Lord’s Day obligation.

All this speculation and criticism of the Church is not seemly or appropriate.

So Pope Benedict praised the Sunday obligation. But he didn’t condemn the Saturday vigil, did he? Then YOU have no right to condemn it, either.

And all this speculating about the motives of others is just plain impossible and very uncharitable. No human can know the heart of another human. If someone feels strongly about the way others are behaving, perhaps they should go away privately and pray that the Holy Spirit will convict others of any inappropriate behavior instead of airing their telepathic perception of fellow Catholics on a public forum that inquirers and non-believers are reading.

I am trying very, very hard to be charitable in my opinion of “trads,” but I am having a difficult time keeping my temper as I read the comments of those who seem to know better than their Church. My opinion of Traditional Catholics is getting lower every day. Help me, Lord, to not treat others badly or look down upon Traditional Catholics because of the actions and words of a few.

 

[stmaria]

I think this thread should be closed by the Moderators.

The Church has declared that Catholics may attend either Saturday vigil Mass or Sunday Mass to fulfill their Lord’s Day obligation.

All this speculation and criticism of the Church is not seemly or appropriate.

So Pope Benedict praised the Sunday obligation. But he didn’t condemn the Saturday vigil, did he? Then YOU have no right to condemn it, either.

 

[water]

I am trying very, very hard to be charitable in my opinion of “trads,” but I am having a difficult time keeping my temper as I read the comments of those who seem to know better than their Church. My opinion of Traditional Catholics is getting lower every day. Help me, Lord, to not treat others badly or look down upon Traditional Catholics because of the actions and words of a few.

I believe part of following the Tradition is to accept the teaching of the Church. As you say, the Church still allows us to attend Saturday mass as Sunday one, we are free to do so.

To be honest, some of the “Traditional” thoughts by few posters really turn me off. That is why I hardly join this particular forum.

 

[Sarabande]

How about changing “get it over with” to “take the first possible opportunity to fulfill one’s obligation?” I’m sure there are plenty of people in the pews on Saturday evening who want to make sure that, no matter what else happens, they have been to Mass for Sunday. Any number of things, good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant, could crop up, and if one has been to Mass on Saturday, there is no problem. And there’s nothing to stop a person from going to Mass again on Sunday if the schedule is clear.

I am a professional church musician with a job in an Episcopal church on Sunday mornings. Most of the time, I am finished in time to dash down the street to 12:30 Mass, but I never rely on that. So I attend Mass on Saturday afternoon, the first possible opportunity to fulfill my obligation, just to be sure. And when it’s possible, I dash to 12:30 Mass on Sunday as well.

Betsy

I used to do the exact same thing when I worked at a Protestant church as a musician. The Saturday evening masses were helpful, but most of the time I could make the 12:00 or 12:30 mass at one of the many Catholic Churches they had.

I now have a music position in our Cathedral, but I will try to attend the mass prior to mine, just because that gives me a chance to be a congregant once in a while, rather than a “worker”.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. Thank you all who participated.