Why should a Pagan become Catholic.

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What is your point? Are you saying that those who reject Christ can be saved?

The first prelude is to recall the history of what I have to contemplate, which is here how the three Divine Persons were looking down upon the whole flat or round of the world full of men; and how, seeing that all were going down to hell, it was decreed in their eternity that the Second Person should become man to save the human race. And so it was done, when the fullness of time came, by sending the angel Saint Gabriel to our Lady…

St. Ignatius of Loyola “Spiritual Exercises”
ewtn.com/library/MARY/IGNAITU2.HTM
 
If I met a pagan in person and the topic of why be a Catholic comes up, I would ask that person why they are a pagan. There are plenty of reasons to be a Catholic, some much more important than others in the order of truth, but each person has different motivations.

So what motivations do you have to being a pagan? When did you become a pagan and what were you before you became a pagan? What were you before that? What keeps you being a pagan?

If the other person is a type that needs perspective before discussing, I would also give my reasons why I am a Catholic, when I became a Catholic, and everything else about myself. This is meant to elaborate on what it means to be a Catholic, not to be the core of the discussion.

If the person isn’t interested in my story, I would focus on that person and what they value. From there, I can explore with the person the journey of being a Catholic, through my limited but steadfast understanding. If the person is only interested in talk and nothing more, I will provide what I can see is helpful to give context and leave it at that.
 
What is your point? Are you saying that those who reject Christ can be saved?

The first prelude is to recall the history of what I have to contemplate, which is here how the three Divine Persons were looking down upon the whole flat or round of the world full of men; and how, seeing that all were going down to hell, it was decreed in their eternity that the Second Person should become man to save the human race. And so it was done, when the fullness of time came, by sending the angel Saint Gabriel to our Lady…

St. Ignatius of Loyola “Spiritual Exercises”
ewtn.com/library/MARY/IGNAITU2.HTM
So the answer is “no, you don’t have anything else to offer.”
 
I’m curious to know if any of the pagan posters have a response to the distinction between worshipping Creation and worshipping the Creator (see my post #26 and Stylites’ post #33). Is that a strawman argument? Do pagans not worship nature?
 
I’m curious to know if any of the pagan posters have a response to the distinction between worshipping Creation and worshipping the Creator (see my post #26 and Stylites’ post #33). Is that a strawman argument? Do pagans not worship nature?
Depends on the pagan. You have to ask each one you meet.
 
So the answer is “no, you don’t have anything else to offer.”
Well there is peace to knowing that you are in the grace of God. And it’s like this analogy: Imagine that you are swimming and about to drown. No one is around but a pedestrian walks by sees you and jumps into the water to save you risking his own life. Would you not be appreciative of that person? Would that person be your best friend? Would not the fact that they sacrificed themselves for you inspire you to love that person?

Same thing with Jesus Christ.
 
I’m curious to know if any of the pagan posters have a response to the distinction between worshipping Creation and worshipping the Creator (see my post #26 and Stylites’ post #33). Is that a strawman argument? Do pagans not worship nature?
If you include traditions like the Hindus as “pagan”, then, yes, that is a strawman argument.
 
Hi Cyberwolf 🙂
Sense we have many of us talking on here I thought I’d bring this subject up. I am big on cutting to the meat of an issue.

I’ve seen many Why be Catholic articles but most are aimed at Atheists, Jews and Protestants.

So what reasons would a Neo-Pagan need to be Catholic.

Let us skip over the usual, turn or burn deals also. An of course keep it civil my good men and women. ^.^
🙂 That is just like asking a “barbarian” asking “civilized people,” “Why civilization? What are the advantages of being civilized?”

Now I am not saying that pagans are barbarians and we Christians are civilized. No, what I am trying to say is that, as all civilized people were once barbarians, so are all Christian peoples were once pagans. It can be hard for civilized people to convey to barbarians what are the advantages of being a civilized person, because they have forgotten the reasons why their barbarian ancestors became civilized. And so it is with Christians: we can only say the reasons with difficulty for “why Christianity” because we forgot how to be pagans. We forgot the true reasons why our ancestors converted to the ancient Christianity (which is Catholicism).

Therefore, the best way to answer your question, Cyberwolf, is to look at history. It is best to know the answers of our ancestors as to “Why Catholicism?” because they were the true pagans, with no previous knowledge of Christianity, and yet were converted to Catholicism.

Before I go on any further, I would have to say that the reason this is my answer to your question, a look back into history, is because this is the path into which I was fully convinced of Catholicism: history. What will follow is my own findings of that studying of history. I do not know if you will make the same conclusions, or if you would be convinced by the same things that convinced me, but at least hear me out.

Now, Cyberwolf, a preliminary survey of history from ancient times til now showed me the honesty of pagans like you to label yourselves “Neo-Pagans”: your paganism is truly “Neo,” truly new. There is no historical evidence that any of the Western pagan cults survived from the ancient times til now. There may be rumors here and there of centers of sporadic pagan worship, but there is no linear progression, no tradition, no generations of worshipers passing down their teachings of pagan rituals and teachings from the ancient times til now. What we have evidence of the recent spread of paganism in the West is people of Christian ancestry creating pagan cults based on written accounts of ancient pagan worship.

In other words, the Western world, at one point (specifically the end of the Dark Ages), totally abandoned paganism. That is my first answer to your question. If a whole continent (Europe) abandoned paganism for Christianity, then surely these people, our ancestors, found Christianity, the new religion, better than paganism, the religion they grew up with, right?

But what is this particular quality of Christianity that made it better than paganism? Why is Christianity so much better than paganism that a whole continent abandoned their old beliefs and embraced the new? The answer would be found in reading the accounts of the emergence of Christianity in its birth place: the Roman Empire. And it is an answer that is so strange to those great ancient Romans, but it is as equally strange to all the pleasure-centered people of today.

Joy.
**
Joy is the main difference between paganism and Christianity.** The joy of Catholicism was never seen by the pagan peoples before, and it was frightening to them. Sure, the Romans were courageous; they were the conquerors of the known world, after all. But they have never seen anything like the sight of men, women, and children singing their praises to their God while they were being crucified, eaten by wild beasts, beheaded, tortured. And the Romans knew pleasure; they were famous for their debauchery and feasts, after all. And yet they saw Christians who were more joyful in being dishonored, in being imprisoned, in being killed, than they could ever be.

Joy is the answer and invitation of Christianity to the world, and joy is the challenge for Christians today. It is actually quite sad that Neo-Pagans like you, Cyberwolf, have to ask “why Catholicism?” when the reason should have been in plain sight whenever you meet a Catholic. And yet I am also glad that you did ask, for we need to remember this today.

Any Catholic has, within his reach, indescribable, radiant joy, joy that can be experienced, not just in Heaven, but in the here and now. If joy is only meant for Heaven, then what of the martyrs and saints who showed us their joy while here on Earth? All Catholics have no excuse to not experience it, for it is their birthright, and no Catholic should hide it, for it is their legacy. It is time for us Catholics to be joyful and share this joy of Christ with our brothers and sisters.
 
If you include traditions like the Hindus as “pagan”, then, yes, that is a strawman argument.
I wasn’t thinking of Hindus. I was thinking of self-identifying pagans or neo-pagans in the West – what I normally think of as a subset of the New Age movement – think candles, Winter solstice, etc.
 
That is just like asking a “barbarian” asking “civilized people,” “Why civilization? What are the advantages of being civilized?”
Except that to many barbarians in the West the advantages of civilization were self-evident.
 
Would you not be appreciative of that person?
Yes.
Would that person be your best friend? Would not the fact that they sacrificed themselves for you inspire you to love that person?
No.
Same thing with Jesus Christ.
Except, in this case, we have a God who demanded the bloody, sacrificial death of his own Son, in the most brutal method conceived by man. 🤷
 
Many barbarians saw the advantage of pillaging civilizations 😉
Some did and some were eager to settle down and enjoy all the benefits of the civilized people they had conquered.

Added: if I can remember where I read about this phenomenon I will let you know (it’s not that my memory is poor just that I have the bad habit of reading a lot of books simultaneously).
 
Some did and some were eager to settle down and enjoy all the benefits of the civilized people they had conquered.
The Mongols in China comes to mind.

But anyways, it is a mute point; all barbarians have (at least in my knowledge) become civilized 👍

And my goodness! It is just an analogy, Tomarin. 🙂
 
The Mongols in China comes to mind.

But anyways, it is a mute point; all barbarians have (at least in my knowledge) become civilized 👍

And my goodness! It is just an analogy, Tomarin. 🙂
I agree, it’s not very important and definitely off the topic of the thread – just thought I’d share.
 
As one of the pagan posters here, I woulf dispute the notion that we “worship nature.” Paganism is a wide field, so I can’t speak with absolute authority, but I would say it’s more accurate to say that we revere nature, and we come to understand the divine, and ourselves, through it. The natural cycles of life and death are patterned in the seasons of the year, the waxing and waning of the moon. the changing aspects of God and Goddess as they reflect the gifts and burdens of youth, middle and old age.

The charge that we are “nature worshippers” is usually meant to imply that we are savages too mesmerized by the baubles of creation to know the creator, that we have distanced ourselves from him/her/it. I would argue that quite the reverse is true. When we meet our gods in ritual, or meditation or dreams, it’s one on one face time. Our encouters with them are as real and immediate as Saul or Moses had, as real as any face to face meeting you’d have with your best friend at a coffee shop. I would say that Catholicism, and most “mainstream” Christianity has erected numerous insulators and translators between them and God. Priests, bishops, theologeons, papal bulls, encyclicals, canon law rulings and on and on.

We neither need nor desire anyone to mediate our experience of the divine, and our deities certainly need no help speaking! What passes between us is as intimate as the communication between a mother and her child, a wife and husband, a best friend of decades. No translators or interlocutors needed. The exact nature of the relationship varies. It can be something akin to parent and child, or student/mentor. They console us when we need it, and give us a kick in the rump when we need that. Sometimes when we’re up against the wall, they intervene directly on our behalf, more often they help us to draw on strength we didn’t know we had.

The great delusion of apologetics is the idea that faith can be decided on intellectual cunning, that clever airtight argumentation can back someone into a corner and get them on board your own faith. No faith works that way, if it’s authentic and has any real depth. I cannot give anyone an ironclad reason why they should be pagan, and I have no interest in doing so. I cannot say with absolute certainty that it is absolute inerrant truth. I can only say that it rings true to my heart and soul more surely than anything else I have ever encountered. I have had conversion experiences and encounters which can still bring tears to my eyes. Could I just be deluding myself about everything? Sure, I’ve considered that possibility. I’m not immune from error any more than any human. I’ve regretted some decisions but I’ve ALWAYS regretted the occasions when I allowed the suggestions of others to override what my own gut and heart tell me.
 
Ahh, so was that a brain munchy? Yum!
More like I’m on a mission to redeem the good name of “barbarian.”

I was thinking of the Germanic tribes who flooded into southern Europe at the point where late antiquity turned into the early medieval period. They were very quick to assimilate to the ways of the Romans they lived among because they saw that such ways were superior. I think the Slavs in the East did much the same thing.
 
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