Why should abortion be rare?

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See, I dont quite understand this argument. Why would allowing abortion mean we would all instantaneously also decide that ethnic cleansings are a-okay?

And if your side seems to be so keen on protecting life, how come there are quite a few who dont seem to have any problems murdering abortion doctors, yet I have not heard of any pro-abortionist going out and opening fire on protesters outside a clinic.
I know of absolutely no pro-lifers who would think that it is okay to kill an abortion Dr. But I have read many, many stories of pro-abortionist who have no qualms on hurting or do doing horrible things to pro-lifers who are on the front line.

realclearreligion.com/index_files/4f0edf4ab6f8b9673b93c914510111e9-428.html

operationrescue.org/?p=827

againsthillary.com/2008/02/18/bill-clinton-goes-nuts-attacks-pro-lifers/

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1998280/posts
 
Last actual death: Dr Barnett Slepian, October 23d 1998
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Slepian

Last Attempted Murder: a failed suicide bombing against a womens clinic by a David McMenemy, September 11 2006

Last Act Of Arson: A planned parenthood clinic was burned down in December 6th 2007 in New Mexico.

As for supporters:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Army_of_God

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Coalition_of_Life_Activists



Thats odd, I cant seem to find anything about Pro-Abortion violence.
You don’t think abortion is violence? Give me a break.
 
See, I dont quite understand this argument. Why would allowing abortion mean we would all instantaneously also decide that ethnic cleansings are a-okay?

And if your side seems to be so keen on protecting life, how come there are quite a few who dont seem to have any problems murdering abortion doctors, yet I have not heard of any pro-abortionist going out and opening fire on protesters outside a clinic.
The fetus is an innocent child. The abortion “doctors” are murders with the blood of thousand of the innocents on their hands who will not cease killing. They are vastly different.
 
The fetus is an innocent child. The abortion “doctors” are murders with the blood of thousand of the innocents on their hands who will not cease killing. They are vastly different.
Which, of course, does not justify violence against abortion doctors or abortion clinics. I will agree though that abortion doctors are the lowest of the low. Generally physicians who can’t hold a job anyplace else.
 
Because even many pro-choicers believe that abortion is a bad thing, albeit a necessary evil. They know it’s hard for a woman to be in that situation and feel that it’s condemning to say abortion should not be allowed.

That said, they would not have an abortion themselves. I have a friend who had a huge pregnancy scare. She’s a very liberal Democrat and lapsed Catholic. Yet she still decided that if she was pregnant, she would keep the baby and put herself through college (she is in college with me). However, they believe it should be available if a mom was going to die as a result of a pregnancy, or if a baby was conceived in rape or incest. Otherwise, even they don’t like it (and I know quite a few pro-choice people with that position). They also support measures like adoption, parenting classes, and help for single moms. They think abortion should be a “just-in-case” thing, not an every day thing.
 
Because even many pro-choicers believe that abortion is a bad thing, albeit a necessary evil. They know it’s hard for a woman to be in that situation and feel that it’s condemning to say abortion should not be allowed.

.
I see a lot of that. Peopes who say" i would never kill my chid but i am for the right of other people to kill their child. " and, not addressing any of your friends, most people who think like this have a pictre in the mind of a poor minority woman getting the abortion.-Abortion is all about eugenics.

Again if abortion is a bad thing it should never be allowed. If its not then there should be no desire for it to be rare. The old "safe, legal and rare mantra is just a smokescreen for covering up their support of this abject evil. I would not want to stand before the Lord and try and rationalize to him why I supported other people having an abortion.
 
abortion should be safe, legal and rare
Way to go, estesbob. Pointing out those “uncomfortable” truths again, are you.

If it “should” be rare, could that mean that it’s undesirable? Or even … bad? How could this be? I thought it was just “my” morality.

I also like the word “safe”. Hate to see anyone get hurt.

/sarc off

-Tim
 
Thats odd, I cant seem to find anything about Pro-Abortion violence.
Entirely from a lack of trying, perhaps:

abortiontv.com/Glitch/ProAbortionViolence.htm
pro-abortionviolence.org/
ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/VIOLENCE.TXT
catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=21211
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2000/aug/000810a.html

This is the result of a simple Yahoo! search for the very key words (“pro-abortion violence”) that you claim turn up nothing.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Note that he never answered the question of why abortion should be rare. Just ad hominem attacks at pro-life adherents.
That’s why I put pro-aborts on my ignore list. They’re too shifty and deceptive in how they argue to justify anyone dignifying their position by responding to them.
 
It is a slippery slope. If we allow a baby in the womb to be killed, that leads to accepting euthanasia, accepting contraception as OK, accepting the government of China’s genocide as OK, accepting doctor-assisted suicide as OK, etc. Life, in all stages, from conception to natural death must be protected.
I believe your mistaken this is what logicans call the slippery slope fallacy. Allow me to demonstrate, ahem; “If the government takes a way our right to bare arms what else will they take away. Our right to own property, are right to work were we want to work.”

you see how illogical that is.

What you guys must realize is that this is a deeply ideolgical issue and as justice Scalia pointed out in an interview with Charlie Rose this issue cant be decided by political leaders, this gay rights and euthanisa should be discussed amongst the members of society. In other words talk about it with your neighbors if you feel so strongly about it. Invite someone from Planparent hood or some other pro-choice group to give a speech or debate at your church this may seem anathema, but you might persuade alot of people to change their minds if you provide room for discussion and debate.

Another point I want to add is that none of you are saying adressing the root causes of abortion. Yes abortion is there yes we could make it illegal but look what happen when we make beer illegal. No its not the same thing but there are cases were women went underground to get an abortion because she couldnt afford to see a real doctor. If you want to stop abortion you must give women more support when they become pregnant. Alot of women who get abortions are from the inner city were amneities like pre-natal care, daycare and other resources are too costally or simply non-existing.
 
Thats odd, I cant seem to find anything about Pro-Abortion violence.
It would appear then that your research is decidedly one sided.
There are plenty of examples of Pro-Abortion violence.
Besides, of course, the violence of abortion itself.
 
Another point I want to add is that none of you are saying adressing the root causes of abortion. Yes abortion is there yes we could make it illegal but look what happen when we make beer illegal. No its not the same thing but there are cases were women went underground to get an abortion because she couldnt afford to see a real doctor. If you want to stop abortion you must give women more support when they become pregnant. Alot of women who get abortions are from the inner city were amneities like pre-natal care, daycare and other resources are too costally or simply non-existing.
Is there any evidence at all that a lack of daycare facilites promotes abortion?

There is support for pregnant women.
I would ask that some measure of proof to the charge that women are not supported be brought to the table.
 
I believe your mistaken this is what logicans call the slippery slope fallacy. Allow me to demonstrate, ahem; “If the government takes a way our right to bare arms what else will they take away. Our right to own property, are right to work were we want to work.”
Yes, because a disarmed public is a powerless and defenseless public. Need a name some societies where this very thing happened?
you see how illogical that is.
No.
Another point I want to add is that none of you are saying adressing the root causes of abortion.
Really?
Yes abortion is there yes we could make it illegal but look what happen when we make beer illegal.
Look what happen when we make anything illegal. Everything should be legal, no?
No its not the same thing but there are cases were women went underground to get an abortion because she couldnt afford to see a real doctor.
There are cases were murderer went underground to kill people because he couldnt afford hit man.
If you want to stop abortion you must give women more support when they become pregnant.
You are mixing up issues. The morality of the taking of innocent life is not determined by this.
 
I think the PP meant if you want to stop the causes of abortion, you should give pregnant women support.

You know, women in that situation aren’t cold-blooded murderers. They’re struggling women who are told it’s “only a blob of cells anyway”. They have NO support. Single pregnant women (unless they’re rich) are looked down on as “skanky”. They’re most likely poor and don’t have money. They can’t get health care. Their partners and families don’t want to deal with a baby. They know nothing about adoption. If they or their babies have health problems. their support goes down even more. It’s sad.

If we put more support systems into play, it would work out. The government can’t make it illegal until they put measures that protect women in the work force and give aid to women. Yeah, individuals should help too, but it’s not enough.
 
I think the PP meant if you want to stop the causes of abortion, you should give pregnant women support.

You know, women in that situation aren’t cold-blooded murderers. They’re struggling women who are told it’s “only a blob of cells anyway”. They have NO support. Single pregnant women (unless they’re rich) are looked down on as “skanky”. They’re most likely poor and don’t have money. They can’t get health care. Their partners and families don’t want to deal with a baby. They know nothing about adoption. If they or their babies have health problems. their support goes down even more. It’s sad.

If we put more support systems into play, it would work out. The government can’t make it illegal until they put measures that protect women in the work force and give aid to women. Yeah, individuals should help too, but it’s not enough.
Good post. It’s all too easy to point the finger, say “You musn’t do this” and ignore the needs associated with an “unwanted” pregnancy, either privately or collectively.
 
I think the PP meant if you want to stop the causes of abortion, you should give pregnant women support.

You know, women in that situation aren’t cold-blooded murderers. They’re struggling women who are told it’s “only a blob of cells anyway”. They have NO support. Single pregnant women (unless they’re rich) are looked down on as “skanky”. They’re most likely poor and don’t have money. They can’t get health care. Their partners and families don’t want to deal with a baby. They know nothing about adoption. If they or their babies have health problems. their support goes down even more. It’s sad.

If we put more support systems into play, it would work out. The government can’t make it illegal until they put measures that protect women in the work force and give aid to women. Yeah, individuals should help too, but it’s not enough.
Be aware that a typical strawman argument of the pro-abortion brigade is that pro-life people shouldn’t defend innocent human life because pro-life people care nothing for these innocent lives once they are born.
 
Sadly, there are powerful pro-lifers who do vote against measures that would aid these women and children, like better access to health care for children. Or these same pro-life people don’t even try to understand a woman’s situation and condemn her regardless without offering alternatives.

Also, it’s important to know that in a pro-choicer’s eyes, they are not murdering anyone, so it’s not like they’re finding an excuse to kill people, They just don’t see any other way to help because of all the kids in foster care now (and there are a LOT), insurance taking over anything and birth being so expensive, etc. The government isn’t doing enough to help these women and children, private citizens can only do so much, it’s ridiculous. They see it, not as a careless choice, but one you make in drastic circumstances (poverty, rape, incest, maternal health, access to care, lack of support). And when they encounter a pro-life person who’s condemning, intolerant to other view points, and only tries to get the baby born, it fulfills stereotypes and turns them off to the pro-life view completely.

So, while the argument may seem like a straw man to us, they think we forget about women and the children once they’re born, so they figure, what else CAN you do?
 
Sadly, there are powerful pro-lifers who do vote against measures that would aid these women and children, like better access to health care for children. Or these same pro-life people don’t even try to understand a woman’s situation and condemn her regardless without offering alternatives.

Also, it’s important to know that in a pro-choicer’s eyes, they are not murdering anyone, so it’s not like they’re finding an excuse to kill people, They just don’t see any other way to help because of all the kids in foster care now (and there are a LOT), insurance taking over anything and birth being so expensive, etc. The government isn’t doing enough to help these women and children, private citizens can only do so much, it’s ridiculous. They see it, not as a careless choice, but one you make in drastic circumstances (poverty, rape, incest, maternal health, access to care, lack of support). And when they encounter a pro-life person who’s condemning, intolerant to other view points, and only tries to get the baby born, it fulfills stereotypes and turns them off to the pro-life view completely.

So, while the argument may seem like a straw man to us, they think we forget about women and the children once they’re born, so they figure, what else CAN you do?
Of course it’s a strawman. Pro-life i adherents don’t vote against measures that would aid these women and children. They vote against measures that the opposition says will have this effect but pro-life adherents believe will make the problem worse. Whenever I see someone argue this point I wonder if they realize how very close they are coming to extorting the people of the United States. Basically they are saying unless you adopt the social programs I want you to these children will continue to die.

There has not been a penney in reduction to any social program in the last 16 years. Not one penny. And there is absolutely no correlation between poverty and the rate of abortion and between the availability of healthcare and abortion. The former Soviet union provided all of this and had the highest abortion rate in the world. During the most economic hard times this country ever faced, the Great Depression, portions are miniscule.

This thread has taken the usual route of abortion threads. First of acknowledgment of the evil of abortion and the n the abortion apologist step in telling us that it’s really the fault of those who oppose abortion that there are so many abortions and that it is inadequate social services that cause desperate women to kill her child. Both of these contentions are demonstrably false
 
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