Why should euthanasia be sinful?

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prh546k said:
I’m new to this site but I have enjoyed reading (and at times learning) from the various threads.

I have a simple belief regarding euthanasia - it is wrong because it takes life out of the hands of God and places it in the hands of man for no just reason and may denies a person the time to reconcile themselves with the Lord- it is for that reason that I oppose the death penalty EXCEPT in the case of crimes against humanity (I know I’m getting off the track there but if you would allow me that bit of latitude I’d appreciate it).

I have an advance care plan - I don’t know what it is called elsewhere but that is its title here in Australia. This is a document asking that I be given whatever analgesia is necessary to relieve my pain even if that relieving dose is going to be fatal - but that if I don’t need the Analgesia it is not to be given.

Similarly it instructs Medical Practitioners that if I am on life support i.e. that my breathing and heart are being maintained by a completely artificial means then that mechanism should be withdrawn.

One of my Sons who is totally aware of my beliefs has been appointed under this advanced care plan as my representative in the event that this situation arises. I have reviewed the care plan with my Parish Priest and he has found no impediment in it because it asks for no active steps to be taken to end my life. It is simply a recognition that I suffer from a number of illnesses which, at some time of Gods choosing, may and I stress may become terminal.

I have already had one occasion when the machine that was “breathing for me” for several days was switched off - and to the surprise of all my body kept breathing for itself and about a week later I recover consciousness and as you can tell by the fact that I’m writing this, I fully recovered.

I spoke to my son after these events and told him he had acted in accordance with my wishes and obviously in accordance with Gods plan. I also told him that he was correct in refusing permission for my dose of analgesia to be increased to an unnecessary level (as was suggested by one Medico) in order to “end my suffering”. He was correct because I was not suffering and I wanted no-one to murder me for whatever reason or how “good” their intentions were.

I would encourage everyone to have an advanced care plan in place and to discuss it with their family and Parish Priest.

God Bless All Who Visit Here
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It is very simple.
Euthanasia is murder. Capital punishment is not.
Murder is forbidden by God. Capital punishment is not.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I can’t buy that. There’s got to be more to the story than simply labeling euthanasia as murder or suicide. There’s go to be a higher-ordered moral value that is being promoted. An all loving God cannot condone needless pain and suffering. To simply say that euthanasia is murder or suicide is to trivialize it; it becomes a set of meaningless rules. Pain and suffering, without a higher-ordered moral value, is a great evil!
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thistle said:
It is very simple.
Euthanasia is murder. Capital punishment is not.
Murder is forbidden by God. Capital punishment is not.
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Can you back up your claims on capital punishment? Or, are you picking and choosing?
 
Robert_Sock said:
Can you back up your claims on capital punishment? Or, are you picking and choosing?
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No picking and choosing required.
CCC 2267:
Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
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Robert_Sock said:
Sounds like picking and choosing on behalf of the CCC. I don’t always agree with the CCC, and I do not think it’s infallible.
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Really? How so? How is the statement selected inconsistent with, or contrary to, anything else taught by the Church?

What does you agreement, or disagreement, have to do with the truthfulness of the statement from the Catechism?
 
davidv said:
Really? How so? How is the statement selected inconsistent with, or contrary to, anything else taught by the Church?

What does you agreement, or disagreement, have to do with the truthfulness of the statement from the Catechism?
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You have the fifth commandment that says: “Thou shall not kill.” This commandment is subject to interpretation and the CCC is catering to the norms of society in its interpretation.
 
Robert_Sock said:
You have the fifth commandment that says: “Thou shall not kill.” This commandment is subject to interpretation and the CCC is catering to the norms of society in its interpretation.
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Why do you interpret the command to mean any killing and not just murder as the Church interprets it. Why is your interpretation superior?
 
Robert_Sock said:
You have the fifth commandment that says: “Thou shall not kill.” This commandment is subject to interpretation and the CCC is catering to the norms of society in its interpretation.
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The 5th Commandment is not subject to interpretation. The Commandment in Hebrew is clear. It means you must not commit unlawful killing (i.e. murder).
 
thistle said:
The 5th Commandment is not subject to interpretation. The Commandment in Hebrew is clear. It means you must not commit unlawful killing (i.e. murder).
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But you just interpreted it to mean unlawful killing and murder!
 
Robert_Sock said:
But you just interpreted it to mean unlawful killing and murder!
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Murder is unlawful killing.

Not an interpretation. A translation. Two different things.
By the way you are obliged to believe infallible teachings (which includes the 10 Commandments).
 
Robert_Sock said:
Let me be quick to say that I do believe it to be sinful and I know what the CCC says about it.

But it troubles me deeply to see pain and suffering, and when I was an atheist I was all for euthanasia. I find it perplexing that the Catholic Church places such a high value on pain and suffering, from the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ to the pain to the suffering of the terminally ill. My take as an atheist, again, was that the Catholic Church placed much too high a value on pain and suffering, but I now believe that the pain and suffering MUST be somehow necessary for salvation for the people given the opportunity to experience it. Some folks, it seems, really do do their purgatory here on earth.

I have a brother who is about to die from pancreatic cancer, and I pray that he is taken quickly, with no unnecessary pain and suffering. I also prayed for my mother, who died in 1999. She was undergoing great mental anguish after my father died earlier that year. And, I often pray for those suffering from terminal illnesses that they may be taken to Heaven as soon as possible.

Christianity, with its high value for pain and suffering, sure makes it a peculiar religion!
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It is not either euthanasia or pain and suffering. There is a lot of room in between those two polarities you have placed in opposition.

You see, if you decide to end your life, even if you perceive yourself to be suffering, that is suicide. And if someone “helps” you to die, he or she is committing murder. Both of those actions have removed God from the equation and we believe that only God should have the power to create life and end life. As an atheist, of course you would not have believed that God is in charge of your life, so you must take charge of your ending at least.

You mention suffering - I have read that most if not all of Jack Kevorkian’s victims could have been helped by palliative care and some even by antidepressants! Yet they took their own lives or he committed “consensual murder” to supposedly relieve their suffering. I hope they are not now in Hell, I hope God has mercy on such deluded souls.

There is no particular value placed on suffering at the end of our lives. We don’t get a special spot in Heaven if we leave this earth in pain…Jesus’ suffering was for our sins. None of us is carrying that sin debt. There are good medications to help people be comfortable as possible when they are terminal.

I think it would do you some good to spend time with a hospice nurse. You would see how to allow people to die in a natural way but not in pain.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
There is no particular value placed on suffering at the end of our lives. We don’t get a special spot in Heaven if we leave this earth in pain…Jesus’ suffering was for our sins. None of us is carrying that sin debt.
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Do you believe in redemptive suffering?
 
Robert_Sock said:
Do you believe in redemptive suffering?
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Redemptive for oneself, or for others? And since we are discussing this in the context of euthanasia, I don’t believe that suffering in pain at the end of one’s life is necessary, or optimal, especially if the person cannot choose that option in total awareness of the consequences. If someone chose with their full mind and heart to suffer at the end of life, I can see a value in that, but does God expect it of us? I don’t think so.

Now, in my daily life, I will “offer up” some things that might cause me emotional dismay, even some amount of distress. I frequently ask God to inflict upon me the suffering of babies being aborted at Planned Parenthood, but as near as I can tell, He hasn’t seen fit to do that. I have a pull toward mortification of the flesh but since I am not a saint, I resist it. I’m just not that trusting of my own motives for doing it. And I’m not anyone’s Savior.

In purgatory, we may suffer for our redemption, or the purification process may entail suffering. But that is after our physical death.

I hope I answered your question, in a rambling sort of fashion.
 
First of all, for most people that live in modern countries, there is no necessity that they suffer unendurable pain while dying. They can (and in MOST cases do) receive adequate pain medication that their suffering is minimal.

But the pain and suffering have nothing to do with why the Church is against euthanasia. Euthanasia does not allow for the possibility of a cure, it is simply putting a human being to death before their time.

Many people have undergone great spiritual conversions while dying of dreaded diseases. Many people have found God, for the first time in their lives, while dying of some dread disease of process.

To kill them, in an attempt to be “merciful” cuts off any chance of this happening. The persons who chose to kill the patient have substituted their choices for Gods. They have, in effect, decided who shall live and who shall die.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Both.

Don’t you believe in the saints who claimed that you can do your purgatory here on earth through redemptive suffering?
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Yes, I do believe in the saints. I just don’t know that we can actually work out our salvation completely here, especially if we die in a state of less than perfect grace. And I have no idea what purgatory will consist of, but I do know that a purification can take place before a soul can be with God. I hope to attain purgatory.

So what does suffering have to do with euthanasia? It would seem, that if you believe in redemptive suffering, that you would be 100% opposed to euthanasia, as being put down removes any chance of actually suffering for some spiritual good.

I think those who can suffer and strengthen their faith are holy. I don’t think God expects ALL of us to suffer as the saints have. If he does, I think I am doomed because I’m not that brave.

:o
 
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