Your acceptance or acceptance by a billion plus people is not a criterion to test right and wrong. Jesus and I don’t expect any justice from this world.Why should I accept your personal interpretation of Scripture? How do you reconcile you interpreting with the fact over a billion people disagree with it?
Same as my having to accept Catholic interpretation of Scripture?How does your dislike of the Catholic Church translate into us having to accept your personal interpretation of Scripture?
Tony,Same as my having to accept Catholic interpretation of Scripture?
I don’t have any hatred to any church or individual. I only abhor false statements, apostasies, violence, denial of God given rights to people, exploitation, condemnation, and similar crimes against humanity.
Like the Catholic church, you have a propensity to extrapolate words, and put words into my mouth to suit your advantage. This is the origin and cause for most mis-interpretations by the Catholic Church.
People could not nowadays be conned with bombastic jargon and Latin words. They could see through your ploy. Unless you change your tactics, and come out openly with truth and reason, there will be further fall out from among Catholics,
**I have all along maintained that I accept only the book, and how it is interpreted by Jesus, who uses Scripture to save mankind.
I reject the interpretation of Scripture by the Jewish priests and of the Catholic Church, when they use it for killing people. Catholic church also, like the Jews, though they initially had Jesus, and the apostles, gradually became corrupt, and addicted to money and other worldly temptations.
Nothing good would normally have come out of the Catholic Church especially after their unholy association with the power hungry Roman empire. But God knows how to use the Catholic Church, an organisation controlled by money greedy power mongers, pedophiles, or homosexuals to his advantage.
The New Testament is Jesus’ interpretation of the Old Testament, which was very different from how the Jewish priests interpreted it.
Look again at Isaiah ten:
No. Jesus had never done any of the atrocities done by Catholic Church, and he would never have allowed any of those things to happen, if he was head of the church.
Also, the church would not have committed these crimes if they were actually representing Christ in this world.
God had already indicated that he would invite other people (good or bad) to replace the original contractor if he has failed to perform as contracted.
You do not believe that the OHCAC is the Church founded by Christ based on what you believe to be other than what would be considered what you believe a Church to be.So the Catholic Church’s claim to be Jesus’ representative today on earth is as hollow as the Pharisees’ claim to be priests of God’s Temple because they descended from Aaron.**
Whatever you think and believe, you believe is found in a book. How in the world you believe that Jesus interpretes it is a mystery to me.I have all along maintained that I accept only the book, and how it is interpreted by Jesus, who uses Scripture to save mankind.
Your understanding of what the contents of the New Testament are is a mystery to me. I cannot find anything, anyhwere, believed by anyone that the New Testament is an interpretation of the Old Testament. This is a unique belief.The New Testament is Jesus’ interpretation of the Old Testament, which was very different from how the Jewish priests interpreted it.
Unless you believe you are Jesus, as you say, Jesus interprets the OT, then all you are doing is saying…I am Tony, I am a person of the Book, and here in this passage, I want you to see and understand this…or that…Look again at Isaiah ten:
If we could have a sinless Mary, we could have had a sinless Joseph also, and their child would have been sinless like Adam. This could have happened just after the Fall of Adam and Eve, and all the Old Testament dramas, and God sending His only Son to die on the Cross etc. could have been avoided.Since you seem to be a bit clueless about the Catholic teaching on infallibility, would it be correct for me to say that you don’t have a grasp on what the church teaches regarding Mary’s sinlessness and why this has been a constant teaching of the Church since its inception?
If we could have a sinless Mary, we could have had a sinless Joseph also, and their child would have been sinless like Adam. This could have happened just after the Fall of Adam and Eve, and all the Old Testament dramas, and God sending His only Son to die on the Cross etc. could have been avoided.
If you can explain to me why God didn’t think of this possibility in plain English without bombastic Latin hard to pronounce words and simple logic, and without telling us why only holy Catholics with Phds from Rome will understand this mystery, we will continue on this thread.
Tony,If you can explain to me why God didn’t think of this possibility in plain English without bombastic Latin hard to pronounce words and simple logic, and without telling us why only holy Catholics with Phds from Rome will understand this mystery, we will continue on this thread
If the Catholic Church’s view on why marriage should be preserved for a man and a woman depends onTony,
I figured out where you are coming from. Here is a summary of your repetitions in thought and an abstraction for you and others to understand.
You do not believe that the OHCAC is the Church founded by Christ based on what you believe to be other than what would be considered what you believe a Church to be.
Whatever you think and believe, you believe is found in a book. How in the world you believe that Jesus interpretes it is a mystery to me.
Your understanding of what the contents of the New Testament are is a mystery to me. I cannot find anything, anyhwere, believed by anyone that the New Testament is an interpretation of the Old Testament. This is a unique belief.
So what we have is difficulty, aided by your Monikor, that says Orthodox and my question would be Orthodox what? What Church are you attending these days?
Next, understand that when you say look at anything in the Bible…as here…
Unless you believe you are Jesus, as you say, Jesus interprets the OT, then all you are doing is saying…I am Tony, I am a person of the Book, and here in this passage, I want you to see and understand this…or that…
Then you are fallible, agreed?
and
All you are doing is telling me what you think and believe based on what you think something might say and without any substantiation other than Tony says so, you are no better than any other Protestant that has some understanding or misunderstanding of any particular Bible passage. If you have not noticed “consensus” is often difficult to get with groups of Protestants.
Thanks for your thoughts.
What Church do you attend?
Everything in this world has a life period during which it has to perform certain things according to God’s plan. Man is given the option to follow his own plan or God’s plan, but would have to meet the consequences of his actions. Man is asked to love each other and love God above everything else, failing which mankind would die. Mankind was on the verge of eternal death many times before, when God took appropriate action to prevent it.Why would Jesus begin the Church in the hands of responsible individuals only for the first few years and then leave it without leadership but instead in the hands of every individual to take their own path? Do you think you are more competent to discern the course of the Church than those who rightfully sit in the chairs of Peter and the Apostles? Apparently, you do, but in this you could well be mistaken.
For crying out loud. I’m starting to wonder why you’re still able to post this kind of stuff here (hullo, moderator). The RCC isn’t attempting to “con people.” No one has to belong to the Church. Catholics willingly believe. You describe yourself as Orthodox but all you’ve provided are protestant views. In blue font. Why come to a Catholic forum to denigrate Catholics?These days, it is difficult to con people with Latin jargon and fancy titles, because God has made the Bible all versions available in practically all languages, and in all countries.
None of the above are justifications for torturing anybody or burning them at the stakes.The scientists were not persecuted for making the claim that the Earth was going around the Sun, but rather for making insinuations regarding the Church’s authority concerning matters of faith and morals. Much as you are today.
For the record, those scientists made claims regarding the Sun being the centre of the universe (heliocentrism), for which there was and still is no evidence, and in that they were just as mistaken and dogmatic as the geocentric folks. The Church, actually, had no official position on the matter, so it could not have persecuted those scientists for contradicting official dogma regarding the scence because no such dogma existed.
The Church is infallible – its members are not.None of the above are justifications for torturing anybody or burning them at the stakes.
A church that claims to be representing Jesus in this world should never have committed such atrocities.
Why do you call this a forum, if people cannot express their views? You should just have had a web page, where you can write whatever you want, and people would be able to just read but not respond.For crying out loud. I’m starting to wonder why you’re still able to post this kind of stuff here (hullo, moderator). The RCC isn’t attempting to “con people.” No one has to belong to the Church. Catholics willingly believe. You describe yourself as Orthodox but all you’ve provided are protestant views. In blue font. Why come to a Catholic forum to denigrate Catholics?
Can you please explain what you mean by this?quality claims don’t include such problems.
I’m Catholic and I frequently question. If you looked at my various posts in various threads, you’d know this. What I don’t do is imply that Catholics are a bunch of heretics, child molesters, and morons who can’t read the Bible and discern its meaning for themselves. If I asked you to decipher Shakespeare or T.S. Eliot or James Joyce or Virginia Woolf, you’d come to some sort of conclusions about their works – but they’d be ill-informed conclusions because you wouldn’t be a part of decades/centuries of conversation about their works. You’d be in the interloper at a party who bursts into a dialogue without hearing any of it and announces that you have the answer.Why do you call this a forum, if people cannot express their views? You should just have had a web page, where you can write whatever you want, and people would be able to just read but not respond.
Or is this also a part of the “con”, where you give the impression that you invite dialogues, but will not tolerate anybody else’s opinions?
If only one opinion is allowed here, how will that be a forum, and how can anybody discuss anything here?
Even if I was a Catholic, am I not allowed to have a doubt or opinion similar to that of a Protestant, or a Hindu, or an atheist, and get it cleared while I remain a Catholic, or will I be ex-communicated or burnt at the stakes?
My full quote was this: “When arguments are tinged with defamation and over-generalizations, it’s time to take a step back and recognize that quality claims don’t include such problems.”Can you please explain what you mean by this?
I had said that Jesus interpreted the Old Testament different from how the Jewish priests interpreted it.Thessalonians, the earliest book, is typically dated around AD50-60.
Jesus lived around AD30.
Can you tell us how he interpreted Thessalonians?
And can you offer the book, chapter and verse where Jesus interprets this verse from Thessalonians, please?
I have already shown earlier that this is not a reasonable excuse.The Church is infallible – its members are not.
Paul was a murdererI have already shown earlier that this is not a reasonable excuse.
After stabbing somebody, can I justify my act saying " I did not stab, it was my hand"
Or can I say, " I did not lie, it was my tongue that lied"
Of the Twelve apostles one betrayed him, 1 denied him, one doubted him,two demanded special favor and only one showed up at the crucifixion. Should we trust anything they say?I have already shown earlier that this is not a reasonable excuse.
After stabbing somebody, can I justify my act saying " I did not stab, it was my hand"
Or can I say, " I did not lie, it was my tongue that lied"
If you bothered reading through the threads you would see that there is PLENTY of disagreement here. Still, this is not the place to spew your evil hatred of Catholics…Why do you call this a forum, if people cannot express their views? You should just have had a web page, where you can write whatever you want, and people would be able to just read but not respond.
Or is this also a part of the “con”, where you give the impression that you invite dialogues, but will not tolerate anybody else’s opinions?
If only one opinion is allowed here, how will that be a forum, and how can anybody discuss anything here?
Even if I was a Catholic, am I not allowed to have a doubt or opinion similar to that of a Protestant, or a Hindu, or an atheist, and get it cleared while I remain a Catholic, or will I be ex-communicated or burnt at the stakes?