Why should the Church change sins from mortal to venial to not-sins-at-all?

[Tantum_ergo]

In my region of the country, the “Friday Fish Fry” is something that every restaurant/pub/bar/pizza shop does!
I am a chef, and I have cooked more fish fries the past 10 years than I care to remember!!:hypno:

I have often wondered this myself, and have questioned how eating a huge fried fish dinner & all the trimmings, with dessert and cocktails is more penitent than me eating the leftover meatloaf from earlier in the week?

Because the intention has been overshadowed by extraneous ‘trappings’.

Originally there are lots of things which started out for one ‘purpose’ and ended up in another.

Jeans, anyone? Those were made originally as WORK clothes. Now they are ‘fun’ clothes. How many people wearing jeans actually use them to go prospecting for gold, or hauling lumber, or doing hard physical labors?

The original purpose of jeans has changed but that doesn’t reciprocate into the idea that jeans were made for ‘fun’.

The original purpose of eating fish was a penance.
But Americans don’t do penance so well. So along came the idea that,“well, as long as we HAVE to have fish, we might as well fry it because it’s more fun for the kids, and hey, we might as well have yummy sides, and we might as well have dessert, and heck, even make MONEY out of it” doesn’t change the original idea.

If you think eating a big old fish fry isn’t penitential for you. . .make a donation to the K of C for the price of that fry, and go home and eat a PB and J sandwich instead. You’ll be true to the original intent, yet you’ll also be ‘helping out’ a worthwhile cause.

 

[ConstantineTG]

In the U.S. because of the Indult of 1965. Abstinence from meat on ALL Fridays is the Universal NORM of the Catholic Church.

The actual documents are a bit ambiguous.

The cool thing is that an Indult, by nature, is not meant to be something permanent (like a norm). That means that any day the Pope and U.S. Bishops could get together and say,
"You know, that Indult seemed like such a good idea because Catholicism ‘appeared’ so strong then, and people were saying that since they were vegetarians abstinence just wasn’t a meaningful penance, and others were saying it was too hard for them because of work or needing to feed a family. . .so we thought, we’ll let those super Catholics do a HARDER penance because they want to, and we’ll help out those poor Catholics who have to be able to have meat, and we’ll abrogate any sin. . .but of course, since it is the Universal Norm, and since Lent is a sacrificial time, we’ll keep the requirement for Lent. . .

but it hasn’t worked out that way. A generation and more of Catholics not only think that they don’t ‘need’ penance (while many if not most are engaging in more sinful behaviors in their lives than ever), they also think that not just this but all Catholic teachings are simply OPTIONAL! These poor Catholics have lost a sense of sin; they have lost the virtues of humility and obedience, and above all, they have lost a sense of the universality and UNITY of Catholicism.

So we, the Pope, and the bishops of the U.S., hereby revoke the indult of 1965 and once again declare that per the Universal Norm of the Catholic Church, all Fridays of the year are abstinence days for U.S. Catholics."

I for one would not be surprised to see that within my lifetime, and I’m no spring chicken.

I believe you. But the truth is everywhere in the world, not only in the US, its this way. Okay, maybe not everywhere, but in places I have been to. In fact I was speaking to a rather orthodox priest a few weeks ago and he himself wasn’t sure what the prescription is outside of Lent.

 

[Cristiano]

You’re and Brother are discussing two different situations.

Let me try to help.

A priest may not marry unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See. The conditions for the dispensation is that he accepts a voluntary suspension. In other words, he lives as if he is a layman. In English we call it laicization. It’s a misnomer, because once you’re ordained a deacon, you can never be a layman again. But that’s the term being used today. This priest is not active.

The priest who is in active ministry may not marry. That’s what Brother is saying.

It is possible for a widowed priest to be allowed to return to ministry, but it is very difficult to do. It requires a special permission from the Holy Father. The current code says that a cleric who is dispensed, even honorably, may not return to ministry, teach theology or exercise any ecclesial function again. I’m not a Canon Lawyer. I don’t know if a bishop can negotiate to have a priest “reinstated”. Theologically, I don’t see why not, but that’s just me. Don’t take my word for it. As I said, I’m not a lawyer.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I understand what you are saying and I agree with it. My point was about the statement of being doctrine.

 

[ProVobis]

I hate to throw the sisters under the bus, but unfortunately, many of them created these problems. You see, the Church entrusted the religious education of children to teaching sisters. At the same time, the Church did not allow the sisters to study theology. Seminaries and theology houses were for men only.

Br JR, you may have a point here about the nuns.

I went to look up some religion class material I copied from the board while attending an all boys Catholic school in London back in 1955. (Obviously before Vatican II.) This was taught mostly by male laity. The workbook shows on one of the pages that “Baptism cleanses us from original and makes us Christians children of God and members of the Church.” Then at the bottom of the page there is a drawing of the Holy Ghost over a curve showing that Christians and Catholics were “brothers.” Looks very ecumenical to me.

Seems as if the nuns taught us slightly contrary to this.

 

[JReducation]

Br JR, you may have a point here about the nuns.

I went to look up some religion class material I copied from the board while attending an all boys Catholic school in London back in 1955. (Obviously before Vatican II.) This was taught mostly by male laity. The workbook shows on one of the pages that “Baptism cleanses us from original and makes us Christians children of God and members of the Church.” Then at the bottom of the page there is a drawing of the Holy Ghost over a curve showing that Christians and Catholics were “brothers.” Looks very ecumenical to me.

Seems as if the nuns taught us slightly contrary to this.

Have I ever told you folks how much I like PV? We don’t usually agree. But he or she has a quality of a saint that I wish I had. He disagrees gracefully and is humble enough to admit when you may be right. It reminds me of Francis de Sales and Philip Neri. They had a wonderful ability to disagree with great charm and to concede a point with great humility.

What a gift!!!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF