S
simpleas
Guest
That state being separated from God, original sin.
Why should we have to continuously ask for forgiveness of a state we were born into?
- Status
M
Memaw
Guest
We don’t continuously ask forgivnes for the “state we were born into” that was taken care of at Baptism. We Do have to ask forgiveness for our own personal sins. God Bless, Memaw
T
TheSurvivor
Guest
Original Sin is washed away in the waters of Baptism. Sin we are responsible of, through our own choice, is called Actual Sin. We can be forgiven of these sins by receiving the Eucharist, if the sins are venial, or through Holy Confession, if the sins are mortal.
God Love you
God Love you
S
simpleas
Guest
I understand that we are taught that the O.S is washed away when baptised, but the consequences of that state remain in the human nature, hence why we have to ask for forgiveness all our lives.
D
Dorothy
Guest
We have to contend with the world, the flesh, and the devil. We are not tempted beyond our strength, there is a way out when we become prayerful, obedient people made possible by the grace that our Lord Jesus Christ purchased for us at such a high price, and grants to us when we seek it .
A
Ad_Orientem
Guest
Are you suggesting that we’re not ultimately responsible for our sins, because we have a fallen nature? That it’s unfair for God to punish us?
Consider this, though. What we choose, we choose freely. God does not force us to sin, and with his grace we can avoid it. We are without excuse. That said, God also knows that we are weak and takes that into account.
Note also that before Adam fell, he was in a state of original justice. In other words, concupiscence does not *make *us sin. We choose it.
S
simpleas
Guest
Maybe. Adam and Eve were given gifts that gave them power, in a garden free from any sin. They chose their path.
We don’t get the same original gifts as they had, we got second best…a fallen nature and then have to ask to be forgiven for having a fallen nature (sinful nature).
I don’t remember a time before my birth were I chose to be separated from God.
We are told God loves us and will not force himself upon us because he wishes we love him freely, but if we die with a mortal sin that has not been repented of, he will send us to hell, to be forever tortured because we did not choose to love him 100%
When Adam and Eve sinned, they would die and start to suffer in the world outside of the paradise of the garden, they had yet to die, they did not receive eternal punishment as far as I’m aware, in a sense the rest of humanity did.
D
Dorothy
Guest
Whenever we fall for the temptation to figure God out with our finite minds, it can cause us to think that God is unfair.
It is best to ponder in our hearts what our Lord Jesus Christ did for us.
It is best to ponder in our hearts what our Lord Jesus Christ did for us.
M
Memaw
Guest
Because we have a free will and can sin of our own free will. God Bless, Memaw
A
Ad_Orientem
Guest
Your complaint makes sense only if grace and paradise are things to which we are entitled, to which in strict justice we have a right. What does God owe us his creatures, whom he made from nothing?
In any case, God doesn’t send anyone to the inferno who is not guilty of deliberate sin. As stated above, we are rewarded according to our deeds. How can we complain if we freely choose evil and are punished for it?
Adam and Eve could have gone to hell, had they died in mortal sin; but even if they were confirmed in grace and we are not, what is that to us? The Blessed Virgin had that privilege among others, which God freely bestowed on her for his purposes. Dare we say not only that he owed it to her, but that he owes it to us also?
In any case, God doesn’t send anyone to the inferno who is not guilty of deliberate sin. As stated above, we are rewarded according to our deeds. How can we complain if we freely choose evil and are punished for it?
Adam and Eve could have gone to hell, had they died in mortal sin; but even if they were confirmed in grace and we are not, what is that to us? The Blessed Virgin had that privilege among others, which God freely bestowed on her for his purposes. Dare we say not only that he owed it to her, but that he owes it to us also?
S
simpleas
Guest
Well that’s sort of my point, when did we freely choose good/evil, if we are from the moment of our conception, created separate from God?
The first two had a sort of paradise living, created good not perfect, but still given that ability from the start to choose. We have no such choice. We are created with a fallen nature, yet God still loves us, but only if we ask for forgiveness for a fallen natures.
In part, non of this makes any sense to me.
M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
In addition, we look to Jesus and Mary as role models, but we seem to focus on the “true God” we think we know more than the “true man” who walked side by side with us.
This is like saying we have to be like them, but they have cheats that we don’t. First, Jesus is the “boss’s Son” who does things we neither can do, nor in fact “should” do – regardless of how much rhetoric we invest in the “WWJD” meme.
Then we have Mary – the was the model of receptivity, but it seems we like to compare especially women to Mary. Of course she said “yes” to God; she had no sinful motivation to do anything BUT that. I have been guilty of being even flippant on this part – yes God she said “yes” but is she really a “realistic” model for a person who is completely opposite her substantially, in the area of being with Original Sin? No, she is an “ideal” we can never hope to attain, so yes we have her to intercede but her saying “yes” does not actually impress me as much as a “normal human” who says “yes” in the face of hardship. Sure Mary faced hardship and social backlash, but she did not face the ego’s need to protect itself from those reactions by others.
So I definitely see the OP issue here, and I think you have touched on something that has been largely distorted in the mainstream behavior of the Church and her leaders.
If we are born in the spirit, Rom 8 describes with great clarity how there is “law of sin and death” that we are subject to in our false selves as long as we are in the world, no longer binds us and in fact. If you are new-ish to the chapter, I recommend a “head start” by slogging through at least chapter 7 first:
Rom 8
Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh are concerned with the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit with the things of the spirit. 6 The concern of the flesh is death, but the concern of the spirit is life and peace. 7 For the concern of the flesh is hostility toward God; it does not submit to the law of God, nor can it; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Moreover, many Catholics and other Christians who fancy Jesus as some hard core judgmental moralist at whose feet we should continuously grovel, strike me as interesting in the light of at least two witnesses I can think of right now.
One is the incident with the adulteress. Some say, “yeah well He TOLD her to GO AND SIN NO MORE.” But look at what was NOT said. First, the woman did not apologize or ask for mercy or forgiveness. Second, Jesus did not offer any mercy or forgiveness, only that He would not condemn her. To me this is HUGE but I’ve never seen it raised in a discussion by anyone other than myself.
The other is the incident with Peter refusing to let Jesus wash His feet. Jesus made it amply clear on many occasions that He came to serve, and that a servant is greatest in the kingdom. He never actually asked anybody to worship Him or even consider Him good – all such attention He redirected toward the Father. Sometimes I think he would to a facepalm if he saw that we focused this much on worshiping Jesus and the stories about Him, that we seem to give less heed to His actual words and the implications of His deeds especially in context.
Or how about the woman he called a dog? She didn’t ask for forgiveness or mercy nor did he offer any, but simply accepting without emotional fear or ego wars the label “dog” in passing like it was no big deal, got Jesus’s attention immediately as the most faithful person he’d ever met.
So forgiveness is critical in what one guy I like to listen to calls the “first half of life” where we are learning right from wrong and the teachings, etc. The “second half of life” for a Christian with what I consider the Low Expectations, aka Bad News of “gosh I hope that I am happy after I die even if never while alive” is totally inconceivable and gives rise to the resistance we have about Jesus’s teachings such as not judging and actually “loving” our enemy.
So again, God the Father spoke from the cloud and said “listen to Him” and God’s Mother said, “do what He says.” If you actually listen to Him and do what He says, it gives rise to a completely different consciousness than if we remain in the mainstream trappings of what I consider idolatry in trying to please the abstract concept of “church” rather than just doing what Jesus’s parents both said to do and letting the other stuff be bonus and spiritual luxury, that hopefully do not create scrupulosity and/or spiritual sloth.
This is like saying we have to be like them, but they have cheats that we don’t. First, Jesus is the “boss’s Son” who does things we neither can do, nor in fact “should” do – regardless of how much rhetoric we invest in the “WWJD” meme.
Then we have Mary – the was the model of receptivity, but it seems we like to compare especially women to Mary. Of course she said “yes” to God; she had no sinful motivation to do anything BUT that. I have been guilty of being even flippant on this part – yes God she said “yes” but is she really a “realistic” model for a person who is completely opposite her substantially, in the area of being with Original Sin? No, she is an “ideal” we can never hope to attain, so yes we have her to intercede but her saying “yes” does not actually impress me as much as a “normal human” who says “yes” in the face of hardship. Sure Mary faced hardship and social backlash, but she did not face the ego’s need to protect itself from those reactions by others.
So I definitely see the OP issue here, and I think you have touched on something that has been largely distorted in the mainstream behavior of the Church and her leaders.
If we are born in the spirit, Rom 8 describes with great clarity how there is “law of sin and death” that we are subject to in our false selves as long as we are in the world, no longer binds us and in fact. If you are new-ish to the chapter, I recommend a “head start” by slogging through at least chapter 7 first:
Rom 8
Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh are concerned with the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit with the things of the spirit. 6 The concern of the flesh is death, but the concern of the spirit is life and peace. 7 For the concern of the flesh is hostility toward God; it does not submit to the law of God, nor can it; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Moreover, many Catholics and other Christians who fancy Jesus as some hard core judgmental moralist at whose feet we should continuously grovel, strike me as interesting in the light of at least two witnesses I can think of right now.
One is the incident with the adulteress. Some say, “yeah well He TOLD her to GO AND SIN NO MORE.” But look at what was NOT said. First, the woman did not apologize or ask for mercy or forgiveness. Second, Jesus did not offer any mercy or forgiveness, only that He would not condemn her. To me this is HUGE but I’ve never seen it raised in a discussion by anyone other than myself.
The other is the incident with Peter refusing to let Jesus wash His feet. Jesus made it amply clear on many occasions that He came to serve, and that a servant is greatest in the kingdom. He never actually asked anybody to worship Him or even consider Him good – all such attention He redirected toward the Father. Sometimes I think he would to a facepalm if he saw that we focused this much on worshiping Jesus and the stories about Him, that we seem to give less heed to His actual words and the implications of His deeds especially in context.
Or how about the woman he called a dog? She didn’t ask for forgiveness or mercy nor did he offer any, but simply accepting without emotional fear or ego wars the label “dog” in passing like it was no big deal, got Jesus’s attention immediately as the most faithful person he’d ever met.
So forgiveness is critical in what one guy I like to listen to calls the “first half of life” where we are learning right from wrong and the teachings, etc. The “second half of life” for a Christian with what I consider the Low Expectations, aka Bad News of “gosh I hope that I am happy after I die even if never while alive” is totally inconceivable and gives rise to the resistance we have about Jesus’s teachings such as not judging and actually “loving” our enemy.
So again, God the Father spoke from the cloud and said “listen to Him” and God’s Mother said, “do what He says.” If you actually listen to Him and do what He says, it gives rise to a completely different consciousness than if we remain in the mainstream trappings of what I consider idolatry in trying to please the abstract concept of “church” rather than just doing what Jesus’s parents both said to do and letting the other stuff be bonus and spiritual luxury, that hopefully do not create scrupulosity and/or spiritual sloth.
M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
Here is more evidence…
John 14
Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth[e] and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father.[f] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father,[g] and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
Not only does Jesus deflect celebrity, but says that who believes in Him will do GREATER WORKS THAN THESE. Woah! That sounds like quite a Tall Order, if I claim to believe, and so if I am to have Christ in both mind and heart I must reconcile these things or it is all just hot air and fanciful worldly constructs.
So yeah it isn’t all about cheap behavior contests, or as one author put it, we have made living in this life an evacuation plan for the next life.
Be free of the law of sin and death. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa had to figure a lot of this out themselves, the Church being more focused on tradition and sin management more than doing deep “shadow work” that leads to the Dark Night of the Soul, the purgation we can experience in allowing the Holy Spirit to enlarge and nurture God’s seeds in us by destroying the “bushel basket” persona we are systematically and forcefully at times fitted with by our cultures.
The only way to be free of that law, is to die to ourselves. That’s the First Step of the three step formula Jesus gave us: 1) deny ourselves (by destruction of the egoic “false” self dwelling in the carnal flesh) 2) take up our cross (note He didn’t say His cross, but our own) and 3) follow Him.
To follow Him, the path is narrow because it is unique for each of us. If we follow a program that applies to “everybody” dogmatically, we can be the many who miss it because we are on the wide (mainstream) path. So to me, it isn’t even good enough to refrain from acting like heathens and godless people, it is also not good enough to “do what they are doing” in any religious setting. It can be edifying and a necessary part of the process of Divine Transformation for any given one of us, but not enough. We need to find out where we are attached to worldly thinking and comforts, and burn them out in the desert or by contemplative purgation as in the Dark Night or whatever our individual guidance is – that’s why we need the Holy Spirit, because “following rules” didn’t work or Jesus needn’t have bothered because they had that before He even Incarnated.
That said, “perfection” is not completely attainable, to the extent that I can witness my own innocence. So right there is one reason maybe because even when “born in the spirit” as humans with original sin, now and then there might be a “speck we missed” that can trigger and cause some Bad Behavior for which the sorrow can be great even if of little consequence. St. Teresa said a lot about that, and even chided the distinction between “mortal” and “venial” sin based on whether it involves Grave Matter – she suggested that any time I say to God yes I know what you want me to do but I intend to do something else is very grave, indeed, despite the matter.
So definitely for the first half of life, confessions are going to be useful and necessary for growth – because without stumbling and some good humbling, we cannot become agile and be optimally “perfected” to glorify Jesus in our selves, not just our lips going blah blah blah.
John 17:
9 I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, 10 and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.
It’s been less than 100 years since John of Avila (St. John of the Cross) was promoted to “doctor of the Church” in 1926. Hopefully, as a few more generations go by, his work will find its way more into the day to day operations of the Church, to compliment the knowledge and tradition base that is more Thomistic IMO and has been pretty much intellectualized ever since the Reformation.
I never even heard of the “kataphatic” and “apophatic” traditions of the Church (roughly what we do, or do not, know about God, respectively) until age 42. Never “contemplative prayer” or “Dark Night” or even spiritual journey. Luckily, when I became psychotic for all the hypocrisy and nonsense I could not reconcile in my academic mind, the Holy Spirit saw that I immediately got what I needed to navigate the Dark Night that healed beyond what I ever was before it happened. For this, I truly can be grateful for my “enemies” who played a critical role in my spiritual development.
John 14
Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth[e] and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father.[f] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father,[g] and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
Not only does Jesus deflect celebrity, but says that who believes in Him will do GREATER WORKS THAN THESE. Woah! That sounds like quite a Tall Order, if I claim to believe, and so if I am to have Christ in both mind and heart I must reconcile these things or it is all just hot air and fanciful worldly constructs.
So yeah it isn’t all about cheap behavior contests, or as one author put it, we have made living in this life an evacuation plan for the next life.
Be free of the law of sin and death. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa had to figure a lot of this out themselves, the Church being more focused on tradition and sin management more than doing deep “shadow work” that leads to the Dark Night of the Soul, the purgation we can experience in allowing the Holy Spirit to enlarge and nurture God’s seeds in us by destroying the “bushel basket” persona we are systematically and forcefully at times fitted with by our cultures.
The only way to be free of that law, is to die to ourselves. That’s the First Step of the three step formula Jesus gave us: 1) deny ourselves (by destruction of the egoic “false” self dwelling in the carnal flesh) 2) take up our cross (note He didn’t say His cross, but our own) and 3) follow Him.
To follow Him, the path is narrow because it is unique for each of us. If we follow a program that applies to “everybody” dogmatically, we can be the many who miss it because we are on the wide (mainstream) path. So to me, it isn’t even good enough to refrain from acting like heathens and godless people, it is also not good enough to “do what they are doing” in any religious setting. It can be edifying and a necessary part of the process of Divine Transformation for any given one of us, but not enough. We need to find out where we are attached to worldly thinking and comforts, and burn them out in the desert or by contemplative purgation as in the Dark Night or whatever our individual guidance is – that’s why we need the Holy Spirit, because “following rules” didn’t work or Jesus needn’t have bothered because they had that before He even Incarnated.
That said, “perfection” is not completely attainable, to the extent that I can witness my own innocence. So right there is one reason maybe because even when “born in the spirit” as humans with original sin, now and then there might be a “speck we missed” that can trigger and cause some Bad Behavior for which the sorrow can be great even if of little consequence. St. Teresa said a lot about that, and even chided the distinction between “mortal” and “venial” sin based on whether it involves Grave Matter – she suggested that any time I say to God yes I know what you want me to do but I intend to do something else is very grave, indeed, despite the matter.
So definitely for the first half of life, confessions are going to be useful and necessary for growth – because without stumbling and some good humbling, we cannot become agile and be optimally “perfected” to glorify Jesus in our selves, not just our lips going blah blah blah.
John 17:
9 I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, 10 and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.
It’s been less than 100 years since John of Avila (St. John of the Cross) was promoted to “doctor of the Church” in 1926. Hopefully, as a few more generations go by, his work will find its way more into the day to day operations of the Church, to compliment the knowledge and tradition base that is more Thomistic IMO and has been pretty much intellectualized ever since the Reformation.
I never even heard of the “kataphatic” and “apophatic” traditions of the Church (roughly what we do, or do not, know about God, respectively) until age 42. Never “contemplative prayer” or “Dark Night” or even spiritual journey. Luckily, when I became psychotic for all the hypocrisy and nonsense I could not reconcile in my academic mind, the Holy Spirit saw that I immediately got what I needed to navigate the Dark Night that healed beyond what I ever was before it happened. For this, I truly can be grateful for my “enemies” who played a critical role in my spiritual development.
A
Ad_Orientem
Guest
Suppose the father of a family, the breadwinner, gambles all his earnings away. Does it affect just him or the whole family? When did his wife and children choose to become beggars? Is it fair to them?
S
simpleas
Guest
This isn’t quite the same as the first two humans…
S
simpleas
Guest
Following rules was apparently never going to happen with the human. The first two sinless humans didn’t manage it, yet the fallen humans must follow these rules in order to find freedom from worldly passions etc and make it to heaven or burn in hell.Here is more evidence…
John 14
Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth[e] and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father.[f] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father,[g] and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
Not only does Jesus deflect celebrity, but says that who believes in Him will do GREATER WORKS THAN THESE. Woah! That sounds like quite a Tall Order, if I claim to believe, and so if I am to have Christ in both mind and heart I must reconcile these things or it is all just hot air and fanciful worldly constructs.
So yeah it isn’t all about cheap behavior contests, or as one author put it, we have made living in this life an evacuation plan for the next life.
Be free of the law of sin and death. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa had to figure a lot of this out themselves, the Church being more focused on tradition and sin management more than doing deep “shadow work” that leads to the Dark Night of the Soul, the purgation we can experience in allowing the Holy Spirit to enlarge and nurture God’s seeds in us by destroying the “bushel basket” persona we are systematically and forcefully at times fitted with by our cultures.
The only way to be free of that law, is to die to ourselves. That’s the First Step of the three step formula Jesus gave us: 1) deny ourselves (by destruction of the egoic “false” self dwelling in the carnal flesh) 2) take up our cross (note He didn’t say His cross, but our own) and 3) follow Him.
To follow Him, the path is narrow because it is unique for each of us. If we follow a program that applies to “everybody” dogmatically, we can be the many who miss it because we are on the wide (mainstream) path. So to me, it isn’t even good enough to refrain from acting like heathens and godless people, it is also not good enough to “do what they are doing” in any religious setting. It can be edifying and a necessary part of the process of Divine Transformation for any given one of us, but not enough. We need to find out where we are attached to worldly thinking and comforts, and burn them out in the desert or by contemplative purgation as in the Dark Night or whatever our individual guidance is – that’s why we need the Holy Spirit, because “following rules” didn’t work or Jesus needn’t have bothered because they had that before He even Incarnated.
That said, “perfection” is not completely attainable, to the extent that I can witness my own innocence. So right there is one reason maybe because even when “born in the spirit” as humans with original sin, now and then there might be a “speck we missed” that can trigger and cause some Bad Behavior for which the sorrow can be great even if of little consequence. St. Teresa said a lot about that, and even chided the distinction between “mortal” and “venial” sin based on whether it involves Grave Matter – she suggested that any time I say to God yes I know what you want me to do but I intend to do something else is very grave, indeed, despite the matter.
So definitely for the first half of life, confessions are going to be useful and necessary for growth – because without stumbling and some good humbling, we cannot become agile and be optimally “perfected” to glorify Jesus in our selves, not just our lips going blah blah blah.
John 17:
9 I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours, 10 and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.
It’s been less than 100 years since John of Avila (St. John of the Cross) was promoted to “doctor of the Church” in 1926. Hopefully, as a few more generations go by, his work will find its way more into the day to day operations of the Church, to compliment the knowledge and tradition base that is more Thomistic IMO and has been pretty much intellectualized ever since the Reformation.
I never even heard of the “kataphatic” and “apophatic” traditions of the Church (roughly what we do, or do not, know about God, respectively) until age 42. Never “contemplative prayer” or “Dark Night” or even spiritual journey. Luckily, when I became psychotic for all the hypocrisy and nonsense I could not reconcile in my academic mind, the Holy Spirit saw that I immediately got what I needed to navigate the Dark Night that healed beyond what I ever was before it happened. For this, I truly can be grateful for my “enemies” who played a critical role in my spiritual development.
Man, I depress myself…
D
Dorothy
Guest
Perhaps you think too much?Following rules was apparently never going to happen with the human. The first two sinless humans didn’t manage it, yet the fallen humans must follow these rules in order to find freedom from worldly passions etc and make it to heaven or burn in hell.
Man, I depress myself…
When we pick up our cross and carry it, He can give us his help and peace. All things are possible with the Lord.
S
simpleas
Guest
Yes you are probably right, I’ve exhausted many avenues of thought and find I can’t seem to think one way…
D
Dorothy
Guest
Oh…and His Mother is so understanding when we ask for her intercession.
May she wrap her mantle of love around you and intercede for you!
M
Memaw
Guest
It would be depressing if we had to do it all on our own, but with the Grace of God, His Divine Son, His Teaching Church and the Sacraments, we can do it. Plenty have proven that already.Following rules was apparently never going to happen with the human. The first two sinless humans didn’t manage it, yet the fallen humans must follow these rules in order to find freedom from worldly passions etc and make it to heaven or burn in hell.
Man, I depress myself…
God Bless, Memaw
- Status