Why so difficult

[Vince85]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.
Why should the mass be this difficult to follow ? Maybe im missing something here ? Just seems to involved. We come here to pray and worship but the it can be frustrating to follow along with this mass. In non denominal Christian churchs they all just bring there King James Bibles and the paster picks a verse or reading and everyone follows along and its soo much easier. What if i was bringing a new convert to the Catholic Faith and brought them to the traditional mass ? Some might not last long or get frustrated by having a hard time following along. The red books are easier to follow with. Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ? Is there another missal to buy instead of the Baronius Press ?

 

[BenedictOblate]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.
Why should the mass be this difficult to follow ? Maybe im missing something here ? Just seems to involved. We come here to pray and worship but the it can be frustrating to follow along with this mass. In non denominal Christian churchs they all just bring there King James Bibles and the paster picks a verse or reading and everyone follows along and its soo much easier. What if i was bringing a new convert to the Catholic Faith and brought them to the traditional mass ? Some might not last long or get frustrated by having a hard time following along. The red books are easier to follow with. Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ? Is there another missal to buy instead of the Baronius Press ?

I prefer to think of new experiences as unfamiliar rather than difficult.

 

[Spirithound]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.

The Ordinary Form of the Mass shifts between the the Propers and Ordinary just as much. I guess it’s just something you get used to. Or you bring a Rosary and pray it during Mass.

 

[laszlo]

I a modern (non denominational) protestant church the minister makes the liturgy, without any regulation. They prefer the easy way.

The Catholic liturgy in present (and from this point of view both form) goes back to the middle of first millennium, and always had centralized rules.

The difference for the new form is that you do not need to follow from the booklet, it is enough to listen what the priest reads loudly.

In the good old time there were not too many converts. Most of them from the Anglicans, whose liturgy is quite similar to ours. The number of converts from other protestant churches increased only recently.

 

[Rence]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.
Why should the mass be this difficult to follow ? Maybe im missing something here ? Just seems to involved. We come here to pray and worship but the it can be frustrating to follow along with this mass. In non denominal Christian churchs they all just bring there King James Bibles and the paster picks a verse or reading and everyone follows along and its soo much easier. What if i was bringing a new convert to the Catholic Faith and brought them to the traditional mass ? Some might not last long or get frustrated by having a hard time following along. The red books are easier to follow with. Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ? Is there another missal to buy instead of the Baronius Press ?

I kinda don’t really understand why you seem to be forcing yourself to go to the Latin Mass…or at least it seems that way to me, I might be incorrect. That said, if it’s such a frustrating experience for you, why not just attend the Mass when it is celebrated in English and much easier to understand? Or, as another poster said, just bring a rosary with you and pray during.

 

[Nimzovik]

I can emphathize with the original poster of this thread. Bouncing back and forth can be extremely confusing.

I have gone to mass in a California church where the Mass is celebrated in one service in four different languages! I should think God would like the people that are praying to him at least know what it is they are saying! I know that I get very frustrated when not praying in my own tongue. Why is it when I go to that particular Mass I am always reminded (obsessed with) of the tower of Babel?

Just my 2 cents worth - All masses should be in Latin! Why? 1) eventually everyone would learn the meaning of Latin words and be able to pray anywhere in the world. 2) As Latin is -so to speak- a dead language - no one can claim favoritism. It would be ‘politically correct’ 3) It would unify us as one people.

Deep sigh… one can always dream.

 

[OscarsMama]

I am planning on going to my FIRST Latin mass very soon (I am a 32 year old cradle Catholic). And I am guessing that although many of the prayers are already said in Latin (during Lent) in my church, it will be a big change. I have also gone to Catholic churches in many different countries (none of which I spoke the language). So… I understand what you are saying, Vince85.

With that said, although it may be common for people to take the Rosary to mass and pray it, I don’t think that is a good idea. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Rosary and I think that people should definitly pray it, but not during mass. During mass we are witnessing a MIRACLE and it is a shame not to be paying attention.

As for the difficulty in understanding what is going on… think of it this way: the more you go, the easier it will be to follow along. I am a cradle Catholic and I can follow along in my sleep because I have been doing it for so long. If you go to a Latin mass over and over and over and over again, you will all of a sudden be able to follow along in your sleep. It comes with practice. And until then, don’t get frustrated… your SOUL follows along. You are there seeing a MIRACLE. If anything else, put the book away and just watch. Don’t bury your nose in the book. Watch what is going on… it will stick.

 

[At_Trent]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.
Why should the mass be this difficult to follow ? Maybe im missing something here ? Just seems to involved. We come here to pray and worship but the it can be frustrating to follow along with this mass. In non denominal Christian churchs they all just bring there King James Bibles and the paster picks a verse or reading and everyone follows along and its soo much easier. What if i was bringing a new convert to the Catholic Faith and brought them to the traditional mass ? Some might not last long or get frustrated by having a hard time following along. The red books are easier to follow with. Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ? Is there another missal to buy instead of the Baronius Press ?

How many TLM’s have you assisted ? As you continue assisting the Latin Mass, it will become second nature. It took me around 20 to follow along easily.

Ask yourself this - compared to what difficulties Our Lord endured for us, how hard is it to be burdened with flipping a few pages during Mass ?

 

[At_Trent]

The Ordinary Form of the Mass shifts between the the Propers and Ordinary just as much. I guess it’s just something you get used to. Or you bring a Rosary and pray it during Mass.

A Rosary ? During Mass ?

While I’d recommend learning to follow the TLM first, I’m with you there. The Rosary can be prayed during the TLM if one understands during which parts of the Mass where it will work. Especially during High Mass.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Isn’t there a missal you can buy that doesn’t require flipping back and forth?

It may be published as a subscription with a monthly service. But no flipping.

Or four times a year, so the updates are all done for you.

Seems to me there are publishers that do sell missals with no flipping required.

The priest has to flip back and forth because they don’t replace the books on the altar unless they wear out. The diocese simply issues the list of the readings and sequences, which is a slim pamphlet and before Mass, the priest makes sure he has all the ribbons in the right places.

I was visiting at a couple of parishes and the regulars at Mass kept right up with the priest with the flipping. Maybe it just takes time to get used to it.

**

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I have been going to the Latin Mass and bought a 1962 missal by Baronius Press. I found it difficult to follow along with the mass using this missal. Between the propers of the mass for that sunday and then the oridary of the mass which also had a few parts to it(mass of the faithfull/mass of the Catechumens) and haveing to bounce back and fourth in the oridanry of the mass.
Why should the mass be this difficult to follow ? Maybe im missing something here ? Just seems to involved. We come here to pray and worship but the it can be frustrating to follow along with this mass. In non denominal Christian churchs they all just bring there King James Bibles and the paster picks a verse or reading and everyone follows along and its soo much easier. What if i was bringing a new convert to the Catholic Faith and brought them to the traditional mass ? Some might not last long or get frustrated by having a hard time following along. The red books are easier to follow with. Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ? Is there another missal to buy instead of the Baronius Press ?

I found that preperation is the Key. My 1962 Missal has ribbons and prior to Mass At home I place the ribbons were they need to be so has we move through the Mas I go right to it. I took a few times going to get a flow but well worth the effort.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I found that preperation is the Key. My 1962 Missal has ribbons and prior to Mass At home I place the ribbons were they need to be so has we move through the Mas I go right to it. I took a few times going to get a flow but well worth the effort.

I agree that pre-Mass preparation is the key.

[Might even ask the priest for the name of the little diocesan booklet that gets issued once a year with the list of what is scheduled for each day, and call them and ask for a copy.]

 

[Denise1957]

You might want to stick with the small red missel booklets for awhile, until you are familiarized with the EF Mass. The drawback of the booklet, of course, is that it doesn’t contain the daily or Sunday propers. I, too, now use the Baronius press 1962 missel (Summorum Pontificum edition), but it took a long time, about a year-and-a-half to become familiar enough with the Mass with the red missel booklet, before I could step up to the more complicated missel. Actually, I found even the red booklet difficult to use, at first, and was frequently angry and frustrated that I just didn’t get it. But I resolved to stay with it (after talking to the priest about my frustrations) and now I rarely ever get lost - and I’m a slow learner. Be confident that you’ll eventually ‘get it.’ If I can ‘get it,’ then anyone can.

 

[At_Trent]

I found that preperation is the Key. My 1962 Missal has ribbons and prior to Mass At home I place the ribbons were they need to be so has we move through the Mas I go right to it. I took a few times going to get a flow but well worth the effort.

That’s it… effort

 

[Timothysis]

Just my 2 cents worth - All masses should be in Latin! Why? 3) It would unify us as one people.

What about those who do not prefer to go to Mass in Latin? How would your “2 cents” unify them?

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes there is no absolute answer that will satisfy everyone… I quite agree.

I do note that: ‘he who sings prays twice.’ Singing, prayer and music is such a personal issue/ choice/ taste. I personally speak English and whats even more important to me is that I think (Pray?) in English. I assert again however that 4 languages for the Mass as I mentioned above can only be described as ‘distraction’ IMHO. I have much difficulty thinking in Vietnamese, Spanish, Tagolog (msp?) and then English. I strongly suspect I am not alone in this sentiment. Note also then there is the 4 different types of music/singing that accompanies the different languages. I apologize if I offend anyone’s sensibilities, however I must assert that it results in a dissonance, a cacaphony as opposed to a* meditative* oppurtunity.

At least if we all learn Latin Mass we won’t be exhausting our priests by asking them to perform a mutitudinous ‘X’ number of lingual services for each group of peoples in their parrish. This is a factor to be considered in view of the shortage of Priests.

The problem with ‘compromise’ is that often nobody gets what they want/need.

Ergo IMHO Latin seems to be the only fair (read ‘politcally correct?’) choice it seems to me.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

What about those who do not prefer to go to Mass in Latin? How would your “2 cents” unify them?

Did not realize the Mass was about our preferance. I thought It was aobut the worship of God.

That is why we used to all praying the same language,(latin) and the priest stood facing the East toward God leading us in prayer, instead of facing us as if preforming of us.
We have to keep in mind that although it is in the Mass that god gives us the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, the Mass is our opertunity to give to God in community our love for him.

I amd not saying that this is not and can not be and is not done done today in the Mass with the priest facing the people, and in the commone language, just that it is easier to lose that aspect of it.

 

[Cletc]

Anyone have any (name removed by moderator)ut ?

I use my colored ribbons.
And I put little post-it stickies on the portion of the missal that say which color tab to go to.

Red - Sunday Mass
White -Ordinary, I move the white ribbon from page to page as I turn the pages.
Green - Preface
Yellow - Calendar day, Saint of the Day, Weekday masses.
Purple – 2nd, 3rd Graduals

And during Sunday Mass,
I cut little post-it notes down to slim size
At the
Introit - Red (I wrote on the post-it sticky “Introit - Red”)
Collect - Red
Epistle - Red
Gradual - Purple
Gospel - Red
Offertory - $ Red
Secret - Red
Preface - Green
Communtion, PostCommunion - Red

I also write right in the Ordinary pages, when to Sit, Stand, Kneel, and I drew the outline of bells (mostly an upside-down “U” and drew a line across the bottom of it) where the bells will ring. And if it it will be triple bells, I write a “3” inside the “bell” I drew

And I took a pencil and drew a “cross” symbol where we cross ourselves.

And I also wrote up along the margin of the page some of the place-catching things the priest says.
Saecula saeculorum ( in three places)
Ecce Agnus Dei
Ite Missa est

If you have “The Saint Andrew Daily Missal” I could tell you what pages (St. Bonaventure Publications)

I wrote these notes and stickies after my second Latin Mass so I didn’t have more than a couple weeks where I was wondering what was going on.

I also keep cut.trimmed post-it stickies and I write on it the names of those Living I pray for during the mass, and a separate sticky for those dead.

 

[Nimzovik]

OneGodOneChurch said: “Did not realize the Mass was about our preferance. I thought It was aobut the worship of God.”

Indeed well said.

As for me I think the word ‘preference’ here is perhaps not the correct choice. I think the issue has more to do with ‘ability’ - that is the ability to worship. IMHO I feel not en*abled *to participate of the Mass as fully as possible in multi -lingual services. 4 languages plus 4 different types of music/ singing borders on the absurd -again just IMHO.