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iloveangels
Guest
Oh, you mean as free samples?No, that would be “Limit: one to a parish.”
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roadsend
Guest
I couldn’t agree with you more except for two things, what you are hearing in your church and, unfortunately, what I am hearing in mine is not authentic Catholic music. That tripe, which they call music, would have gotten them thrown out for sacrilege from any Catholic church I ever attended during the '40s and '50s. Authentic Catholic sacred music is in the best musical tradition that the world has ever seen. The only local place I get to hear it is when I go to a concert put on by our public high school choir.
Secondly, most of the “people with senses of pitch” for the most part left after Vatican II.
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iloveangels
Guest
You can also get it from iTunes. It’s in the classical section.
I couldn’t agree with you more except for two things, what you are hearing in your church and, unfortunately, what I am hearing in mine is not authentic Catholic music. That tripe, which they call music, would have gotten them thrown out for sacrilege from any Catholic church I ever attended during the '40s and '50s. Authentic Catholic sacred music is in the best musical tradition that the world has ever seen. The only local place I get to hear it is when I go to a concert put on by our public high school choir.
Secondly, most of the “people with senses of pitch” for the most part left after Vatican II.
Oh that late? I thought it was a genetic defect passed down for generations because the tune-bearers left during the Reformation.
Protestants can sing.
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roadsend
Guest
Yup. Some of them sure can, especially the Lutherans.You can also get it from iTunes. It’s in the classical section.
Oh that late? I thought it was a genetic defect passed down for generations because the tune-bearers left during the Reformation.
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Paxvobis
Guest
I grew up with all those 70’s songs and the Mass of Creation setting on a piano. No longer my cup of tea (I don’t mind the Mass of Creation so much).
These days, when I’m at the O.F. I prefer either no music - just spoken - or traditional hymns with chanted ordinary on an organ. I cringe when I hear things like the Mass of Glory or ‘Alle, Alle, Alleluia.’
I don’t understand the mentality that we have to sing all the time at every Mass, especially when we’re singing the Mass of Glory and ‘Table of Plenty’ or similar music.
Last year we sang a Gloria that was totally re-written. From my memory, it went:
“Glory, glory, glory to God. Glory, glory, glory to God.
Glory to God in the heights of the heavens,
peace to his people: God’s people on Earth.
Glory, glory, glory to God. Glory, glory, glory to God.
Lord Jesus Christ, son of the Father, have mercy on us
have mercy on us Lamb of God.
Glory, glory, glory…”
Why!?
These days, when I’m at the O.F. I prefer either no music - just spoken - or traditional hymns with chanted ordinary on an organ. I cringe when I hear things like the Mass of Glory or ‘Alle, Alle, Alleluia.’
I don’t understand the mentality that we have to sing all the time at every Mass, especially when we’re singing the Mass of Glory and ‘Table of Plenty’ or similar music.
Last year we sang a Gloria that was totally re-written. From my memory, it went:
“Glory, glory, glory to God. Glory, glory, glory to God.
Glory to God in the heights of the heavens,
peace to his people: God’s people on Earth.
Glory, glory, glory to God. Glory, glory, glory to God.
Lord Jesus Christ, son of the Father, have mercy on us
have mercy on us Lamb of God.
Glory, glory, glory…”
Why!?
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smndtupidisaftr
Guest
The reason is that most music directors don’t know about Gregorian Chant and the beauty of it. That’s probably the main reason. Second is intimidation with Latin. People feel, for whatever reason, that people cannot understand/follow Latin, even with a missal. How much more difficult then would be singing in Latin?
What I find much more dangerous as a reason is that this kind of “praise music” that seems to generally be detested here is very easy to pick up on as it plays on emotions. Much like modern music, it effects an emotional change in us. In that sense, the music is written for people, instead of being written to bring a sense of Heaven. In that sense, then, it is dangerous because it keeps us focusing on the temporal and ourselves rather than the eternal and our Heavenly Father.
What I find much more dangerous as a reason is that this kind of “praise music” that seems to generally be detested here is very easy to pick up on as it plays on emotions. Much like modern music, it effects an emotional change in us. In that sense, the music is written for people, instead of being written to bring a sense of Heaven. In that sense, then, it is dangerous because it keeps us focusing on the temporal and ourselves rather than the eternal and our Heavenly Father.
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pnewton
Guest
I think the reason many complain here about the music is because they can, here, anonymously. Honestly, in fifteen years I have not had one complaint or suggestion for change in person. I have even actively sought feedback, including a survey. The closest thing I got to anything negative was a few people who were glad that we didn’t have new music every week. (A prior cantor was fond of picking songs that had never been used before).
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ProVobis
Guest
The ironic part is that if the Mass had been left in Latin, your (or Proulx or Peter Jones) vernacular version would have probably been allowed to be sung at the beginning or the end of the Mass. But since we have a locked-in translation, only that version is allowed.
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Bonnie
Guest
In our parish no one dares complain because too many choir members are extremely touchy. One priest tried to rein in the choir in some of their selections - they got mad & went on “strike.” They wouldn’t sing or play their guitars until he butted out. I thought it was a lovely respite.
Another priest tried to get rid of the electric guitar - not the man playing it, just the guitar. “But Father! That’s my gift to God!” Right. Priest left, we still have the electric guitar.
I tried being tactful about the Our Father our choir likes. I think it’s horrible. One recent Sunday they chanted it - loved it! And I told them how wonderful it was. The next Sunday they were right back to the horrible tune. One singer told me they were “addicted” to it. I told her (in a joking way) that perhaps they should get therapy.
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iloveangels
Guest
Ooh, I want our “musicians” to go on strike, if that would get them to be quiet. Yess.In our parish no one dares complain because too many choir members are extremely touchy. One priest tried to rein in the choir in some of their selections - they got mad & went on “strike.” They wouldn’t sing or play their guitars until he butted out. I thought it was a lovely respite.
Another priest tried to get rid of the electric guitar - not the man playing it, just the guitar. “But Father! That’s my gift to God!” Right. Priest left, we still have the electric guitar.
I tried being tactful about the Our Father our choir likes. I think it’s horrible. One recent Sunday they chanted it - loved it! And I told them how wonderful it was. The next Sunday they were right back to the horrible tune. One singer told me they were “addicted” to it. I told her (in a joking way) that perhaps they should get therapy.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
“You guys?”
I count you as one of “us guys” now, so point those fingers right back at yourself mate!
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
People like to complain a lot! And sadly Catholics get so caught up in things like that…if you are not singing what I think you should-I am leaving early each week…or I am telling everyone and complaining to everyone I know. I really fail to see how God is glorified in any of that:shrug:
Our more “traditional” choir is at the early Mass and they are awful! Just like last night…st Midnight Mass…it was so beautiful and the singing was wonderful…and then this morning the more traditional choir sang…totally off pitch…I do a lot of offering it up when they sing
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cspb56
Guest
The problem, if you want to call it that, is that musical preferences whether secular or religious are a personal preference and we just can’t dictate what people should like. I know folks who are just spiritually taken away by the traditional forms and can’t stand contemporary music. The reverse is also true. My experience as a liturgical musician is that most people are in the middle. I’ve always tried to use the best of old and new. As the old saying goes “you can’t please all the people all of the time”. I have been called on the carpet by folks on both sides. Fortunately, it’s always a minority on both sides. If you are a good musician you can get the “musical pulse” of a parish and plan accordingly. Unfortunately there are musicians who foist their preferences on a congregation and that is wrong. If you are a person with musical taste exclusively traditional or contemporary then unfortunately all you can do is seek a parish that meets your spiritual musical needs. If you’re in a large diocese it’s fairly easy but much harder and less convenient in smaller ones. Be kind to your musical directors. You have to walk in their shoes to really understand. Merry Christmas to all.
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Dirt
Guest
as a point of personal opinion, and only opinion, the musical issues are one of the most problematic of the Mass Revisions of the Ordinary Form. Sacrosanctum Concilium in Chapter VI states in part:
“114. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30.”
And:
"121. Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures.
Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music, not confining themselves to works which can be sung only by large choirs, but providing also for the needs of small choirs and for the active participation of the entire assembly of the faithful.
The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources."
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
Onece again, i fear, the intentions of the Council Fathers was left on the floor by well meaning but misunderstanding Music “directors” who rushed to “spice up” what was perceived as banal and outdated Liturgical music. Hopefully the Re-evangilization that The Holy Father is calling for may reach our Music Directors as well.
May you all have a Very Blessed Christmas Season
“114. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30.”
And:
"121. Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures.
Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music, not confining themselves to works which can be sung only by large choirs, but providing also for the needs of small choirs and for the active participation of the entire assembly of the faithful.
The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources."
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
Onece again, i fear, the intentions of the Council Fathers was left on the floor by well meaning but misunderstanding Music “directors” who rushed to “spice up” what was perceived as banal and outdated Liturgical music. Hopefully the Re-evangilization that The Holy Father is calling for may reach our Music Directors as well.
May you all have a Very Blessed Christmas Season
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pilots13
Guest
I’ve never understood why so many people (especially around these forums it seems) get so bent out of shape by the music being played at Mass. I will agree 100% that some churches end up with basically rock bands preforming at them, and that it gets way over the top. Though I’ve been to plenty of Masses done by either choirs and/or organ, and they too have become more like a concert show than the kind of traditional Mass you think of them being used for. The nice thing is that though a lot of modern church music is written using drums, electric guitars, synthesizers, etc. but it can still sound very beautiful, even scaled down just just a traditional piano. My parish’s Sunday music group (who’s been around for 30 some years) consists of a piano, an acoustic guitar, and a flute. They play a range of traditional hymns to modern folk (not so much the NEW new stuff, but the music from the 70’s and 80’s), They do an absolutely beautiful job every Sunday and for me it add so much to my worship experience.
In my opinion, music is very much like many other aspects of what “Environment committees” at parishes do (like my seasonal decorations). You can absolutely have a very fulfilling and spiritual Mass with no decorations and no music. But aspects are there to accompany the basic Mass, and add to the mood and setting of a particular Mass or feast. I’ve heard a fair amount of chant (the preferred music setting in these forums it seems) and to me it all sounds the same. And add to it much of it is in Latin, a language I don’t know, which makes the lyrics sound like gibberish. With the folk hymns, there is very distinct differences in sound, tempo and style between what is written for say Lent and those songs written for Easter. Plus with it written in English, (or whatever native language it was written in) it can add to the messages and meaning of the Mass of feast (and yes you do have to be wary of what you play when you add compositions by a Protestant, though most of their music sends the same messages and meanings Catholic written hymns do). Again, it’s not needed, and it’s there to accent the Mass. I’d much prefer there is a nice range of music styles around different parishes to appeal to people different tastes in worship styles vs banning folk and forcing chant upon everyone.
In my opinion, music is very much like many other aspects of what “Environment committees” at parishes do (like my seasonal decorations). You can absolutely have a very fulfilling and spiritual Mass with no decorations and no music. But aspects are there to accompany the basic Mass, and add to the mood and setting of a particular Mass or feast. I’ve heard a fair amount of chant (the preferred music setting in these forums it seems) and to me it all sounds the same. And add to it much of it is in Latin, a language I don’t know, which makes the lyrics sound like gibberish. With the folk hymns, there is very distinct differences in sound, tempo and style between what is written for say Lent and those songs written for Easter. Plus with it written in English, (or whatever native language it was written in) it can add to the messages and meaning of the Mass of feast (and yes you do have to be wary of what you play when you add compositions by a Protestant, though most of their music sends the same messages and meanings Catholic written hymns do). Again, it’s not needed, and it’s there to accent the Mass. I’d much prefer there is a nice range of music styles around different parishes to appeal to people different tastes in worship styles vs banning folk and forcing chant upon everyone.
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ProVobis
Guest
I’m not sure proper respect was given to the priest. And how would they know he wasn’t ordered by his bishop to say what he said about the musical instruments to be played there?In our parish no one dares complain because too many choir members are extremely touchy. One priest tried to rein in the choir in some of their selections - they got mad & went on “strike.” They wouldn’t sing or play their guitars until he butted out. I thought it was a lovely respite.
Another priest tried to get rid of the electric guitar - not the man playing it, just the guitar. “But Father! That’s my gift to God!” Right. Priest left, we still have the electric guitar.
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TheMc
Guest
Wow. On the one hand, that’s really sad that the choir members don’t seem to care a shoot about the actual musical demands of the liturgy, but on the other hand, if it takes strikes to get rid of the trash music during Mass, so be it. If I was in that parish, I would have offered right away to take over for the striking musicians and sing SEP, and maybe Fr. would invite them back!!!In our parish no one dares complain because too many choir members are extremely touchy. One priest tried to rein in the choir in some of their selections - they got mad & went on “strike.” They wouldn’t sing or play their guitars until he butted out. I thought it was a lovely respite.
Another priest tried to get rid of the electric guitar - not the man playing it, just the guitar. “But Father! That’s my gift to God!” Right. Priest left, we still have the electric guitar.
I tried being tactful about the Our Father our choir likes. I think it’s horrible. One recent Sunday they chanted it - loved it! And I told them how wonderful it was. The next Sunday they were right back to the horrible tune. One singer told me they were “addicted” to it. I told her (in a joking way) that perhaps they should get therapy.
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cspb56
Guest
That is an example of poor leadership by both the pastor and director of music. Sometimes you have to make difficult decisions.
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TheMc
Guest
Umm… I don’t see any fault on the part of the pastor, at least according to this account. He didn’t even try to disband them (which he is perfectly within his rights to do), he just tried to make sure they sung reasonable music (which is not only his right, but his duty).
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cspb56
Guest
The pastor and music director should have taken the time to sit down with the people involved and work things out. I’ve been a music director for a long time and if the pastor says no more…whatever… than his decision is final. Without knowing what things sound like we really can’t comment much more. If it was a matter of poor playing or really load playing the person needs to be confronted. If it’s the pastor preference it should be respected. You would be surprised with what a music director sometimes has to deal with.
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