Why so many complaints about the music

[TheMc]

The pastor and music director should have taken the time to sit down with the people involved and work things out. I’ve been a music director for a long time and if the pastor says no more…whatever… than his decision is final. Without knowing what things sound like we really can’t comment much more. If it was a matter of poor playing or really load playing the person needs to be confronted. If it’s the pastor preference it should be respected. You would be surprised with what a music director sometimes has to deal with.

On the other hand, you’d be surprised what a pastor sometimes has to deal with. When a bishop in a neighboring diocese tried to fire someone for holding views contrary to the faith, he gave her a second chance, and she straight out refused to make a profession of faith to him. Yet there was still a protest, even with these facts being publicly known.

 

[jimrob]

Music is very much a personal choice. It’s strange that in a Church with Catholic in its name, we should have so many people with such narrow musical tastes. Some of us prefer Mass without music, some like plainchant, some polyphony, some 19th century hymns, some 1960s “folk” music and some modern music. Music is one of the ways in which we pray and lift up our hearts to God. Refusing to pray because you think that God shares your narrow taste in music - or lack of it - is at best arrogance and at worst sinful.

 

[cspb56]

Totally agree!

 

[iloveangels]

People like to complain a lot! And sadly Catholics get so caught up in things like that…if you are not singing what I think you should-I am leaving early each week…or I am telling everyone and complaining to everyone I know. I really fail to see how God is glorified in any of that:shrug:

Our more “traditional” choir is at the early Mass and they are awful! Just like last night…st Midnight Mass…it was so beautiful and the singing was wonderful…and then this morning the more traditional choir sang…totally off pitch…I do a lot of offering it up when they sing

No, no. I’m not talking about whether it’s traditional or conservative. I’m not talking about whether it’s NO or EF. I’m not talking about whether it’s guitar or pipe organ. I’m not even talking about whether it’s my favorite songs or not. I’m talking about the fact it’s NOT ON KEY a good part of the time. It sounds like a mutiny in progress. It’s terrible by any metric.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

A pertinent quote by Pope Benedict.

On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. “Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober ine*briation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. [The Spirit of the Liturgy, (SF, CA: Ignatius, 2000), p 148]

ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html#Sacred_vs._Performance

 

[George_Stegmeir]

The real tragedy of music in todays’ Catholic Church is that after V II they abandoned hundreds of years of post Gregorian Chant music in favor of “contemporary” music.
The real problem with most contemporary Catholic Church music is its terrible banality. And, with the exception of Scripture set to music, the lyrics are often an insult to any intelligent human being…including children.
The use of Jazz, Rock n’ Roll, (both of which had origins in brothels and cheap dives) and so-called folk music- which isn’t folk at all but for the most part, a creation of commercial Nashville in Church is an abomination bordering on sacrilege.
I once had an argument with a priest in the '70s, who got some local publicity in Richmond, Va. about a “Rock” Mass, who told me I was just “behind the times”. My response to him was that if anyone tried an Oom-Pah band mass in Bavaria or an American Polka Mass in Poland, the parishioners would probably riot and burn the instigator at the stake. He just hurrumphed and said I was anti-catholic and should be ashamed of myself.
Remember, almost all of the great classical composers wrote, not only Masses (including protestants, like the Bach family) but they also wrote numerous hymns.
The sad thing is that most CC organists either don’t know of this music, or the Pastor is musically ignorant and won’t allow its performance. It is like the new translation and music for the Mass. At least in my parish, there was no teaching of the new music to go along with the new translation, and most people don’t read music so they can’t follow the chanting from the Mass card.

 

[Cat]

I think people complain because they don’t understand how difficult it is to compose, publish, read, sing/play, practice, teach, and conduct music, and how exceedingly difficult it is for a Catholic church (or any church) to locate, hire, and retain those who have any of these skills.

Even if the diocese can locate the musicians who have skills and knowledge of traditional Catholic liturgical music, there is also the issue of whether those musicians not only profess Catholicism or at least Christianity, but also demonstrate in their life outside of Mass that they truly DO accept ALL the teachings of the Catholic Church and are living a life of faith and not deliberately practicing sin.

I think some people are so used to turning on the TV or some other electronic media and listening to the music of their choice that perhaps they have forgotten that music is not easy to make.

I am an excellent pianist with a classical background and many years of experience playing hymns, preludes and postludes, and other music in church, both Protestant and Catholic.

This summer (August 2011), I started taking organ lessons. At this point, I can play ONE hymn (Holy God, We Praise Thy Name), and to be honest, I would probably totally mess up on it were I to play it for the congregational singing during Mass.

I really want to learn how to play the organ and play much of the more traditional music, but honestly, folks, I don’t see it happening soon. I wish I were better at it. It’s not an easy instrument to play (especially the pedals for me). I don’t have much luck finding time or an organ for practice, and I’m lucky to get in a few hours a week.

I find it disheartening to read some of the comments on CAF from people who seem to think that pianists should just sit up at that organ and play it properly like good Catholics.

I wish that they would try it.

I’m sure many of the musicians who play, sing, and conduct in Catholic churches wish they were better, too. It’s so discouraging to do our best, and ask the Lord to help us play/sing/conduct well—and then to come here and read all the disparaging comments and realize that our best will never, ever be good enough and that more than likely, someone during the Mass hates our music.

I think that many of you are totally unaware that Gregorian chant is NOT easy to sing well. Neither is polyphony. Or music in Latin–yes, a lot of people sing Adeste Fideles because it used to be taught in all the public schools and colleges, and many of us still remember it from our days as madrigals (fa la la la la). But for many people, Latin is not easy.

Just because something is easy for you doesn’t mean that it is easy for everyone else.

Also, in this day and age, it’s almost impossible to get a choir together for regular practice. Conductors try everything, and still end up with half their choir skipping practices. This makes it virtually impossible to teach any skills like reading chant, or even reading music, and it means that many of the anthems have to be very simple and plain so that the “sight-readers” who only show up for Mass can get through the piece.

People just don’t want to make any commitments these days.

And like I said at the beginning of this post, it’s so difficult for churches to find musicians, especially conductors/directors, who have the training in liturgical music, classics, chant, etc. I majored in music for a while in college (30 years ago), and the type of classes that would have given me this knowledge simply didn’t exist at my large state university. I think a lot of musicians graduate without the knowledge of Catholic liturgical music, and so it’s no wonder you don’t hear the kind of music that you hear over at St. Peter’s in Rome.

I often wonder how it is that so many non-musicians know so much about Mass music, while so many college-educated musicians like myself know little or nothing about Mass music.

I suspect that those who think they know a lot really know very little and demonstrate their lack of knowledge by making statements implying that all Catholic churches should just start doing Gregorian chant and using the pipe organ exclusively at Mass.

And I suspect that many of us who went to college and learned music know more than we think, because we do know enough to know that we don’t have the resources and the musically-proficient laypeople, especially instrumentalists and especially good organists, to be able to do Gregorian chant and other ancient music, and to use only the pipe organ, at our Masses.

(continued next post)

 

[Cat]

(continued from last post)

Do you think we like that? Do you think we are thrilled to have a choir of dozen people, mostly elderly, who don’t read music, and don’t know how to sing properly, who only show up for practice half the time, and who are all women except for one husband whose wife drags him to choir–and of course he’s not a tenor.

Do you realize that this means that it’s very difficult to find music for a group like this, with no tenors? You’re forced to use only the simplest of music, and it is often something with a familiar melody, since most of the people don’t read music, and you probably don’t have a rehearsal accompanist, so you have to play all the parts over and over again, and that means that you never get a chance to actually conduct the piece because you are playing the piece?

Do you think we like it when there is only one organist in the parish, and only enough organists in the city for each parish to have one organist each Sunday?

All the complaining, both online and in real life, is enough to make those of us who make Mass music struggle with temptation to give up and sit with all the other silent people in the pews. It’s not like we’re getting paid for what we do.

I’m going to make a suggestion that might surprise many of you, but I hope you will think about it and hopefully decide to try it.

I learned this technique decades ago, and have used it successfully for all these years whenever I work with children in either music or theater–PRAISE your people to success.

If you want your Mass music to improve, praise your musicians. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like their music. You like the musicians, right? So tell your musicians how glad you are that they are there. Don’t be fake, and don’t be patronizing. Just be grateful.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find that your praise will help–it will help your musicians to work even harder to do their best, and it will help you as a non-musician to better appreciate the music in your Mass.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I think people complain because they don’t understand how difficult it is to compose, publish, read, sing/play, practice, teach, and conduct music, and how exceedingly difficult it is for a Catholic church (or any church) to locate, hire, and retain those who have any of these skills.

I didn’t read all of this, so if anything I say is wrong please feel free to correct me.

We don’t need parish musicians to compose/publish. The music is already there. All we need them to do is read/sing/play. That’s about it. I learned music as a child, and many other people have too. We just need to play the music that is there. There are plenty of people in the community that can sing decently, as there are some people that can play the organ (but if there aren’t, a Capella is just fine too). I really don’t see how this is a justification for modern praise music.

 

[ProVobis]

I didn’t read all of this, so if anything I say is wrong please feel free to correct me.

We don’t need parish musicians to compose/publish. The music is already there. All we need them to do is read/sing/play. That’s about it. I learned music as a child, and many other people have too. We just need to play the music that is there. There are plenty of people in the community that can sing decently, as there are some people that can play the organ (but if there aren’t, a Capella is just fine too). I really don’t see how this is a justification for modern praise music.

I don’t think it’s that easy. A pianist or organist learns how to do intros and fill-in soft or hard music when warranted. It goes beyone sight reading of notes. Cat does have a point. Musicians aren’t appreciated. How many go on talking through a prelude or a postlude when this is supposed to be music played for God? A church is more than a meeting place for friends.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I don’t think it’s that easy. A pianist or organist learns how to do intros and fill-in soft or hard music when warranted. It goes beyone sight reading of notes. Cat does have a point. Musicians aren’t appreciated. How many go on talking through a prelude or a postlude when this is supposed to be music played for God? A church is more than a meeting place for friends.

Oh believe me, I understand how difficult it is and how much dedication it takes to learn this music and play/sing it well. However, my issue is that I don’t see how this argument is a justification for modern praise music, which also takes time to learn. My point is that if we are going to take time to learn music, we should be learning Gregorian chant rather than praise music.

 

[ProVobis]

Oh believe me, I understand how difficult it is and how much dedication it takes to learn this music and play/sing it well. However, my issue is that I don’t see how this argument is a justification for modern praise music, which also takes time to learn. My point is that if we are going to take time to learn music, we should be learning Gregorian chant rather than praise music.

Expanded Gregorian chant is difficult for an entire congregation. Even choirs have to practice that. Simple chants sung to the melody of “Asperges Me” are much easier and the melody can be adapted to the Introit or Collect or some other proper. Latin is not that difficult to pronounce as there are very few silent letters. Chant like this can be accompanied on an organ as well.

 

[Cat]

Oh believe me, I understand how difficult it is and how much dedication it takes to learn this music and play/sing it well. However, my issue is that I don’t see how this argument is a justification for modern praise music, which also takes time to learn. My point is that if we are going to take time to learn music, we should be learning Gregorian chant rather than praise music.

I do hope, please, that you will go back and read my two posts in their entirety.

Perhaps a tendency to read and learn only in part instead of more thoroughly is the reason why you believe that it is just as easy to learn Gregorian chant as it is to learn “praise music.”

I agree, that there are some pieces of “praise music” that are difficult because of syncopated rhythms or complex melodies, although since many of us are familiar with syncopation because of constant exposure to it through radio/TV/movies, etc., many do not have that much difficulty learning pieces with syncopated rhythms.

BTW, ancient pieces and classics contain syncopation also.

However, most “praise music” is much easier to learn than Gregorian chant. Much, much easier.

For one thing, we are, as I mentioned above, “familiar” with the style of praise music. In the United States, we are used to hearing a melody and regular rhythm and many of us (not me) can learn these pieces by ear just by hearing them.

Secondly, “praise” music is usually in our own language.

Third, there are so many MANY “easy” versions of popular praise songs available, and many of these arrangements are inexpensive. A lot of these versions contain primarily unison lines, with only a few places where there is two part, or sometimes three-part harmony, and often, this harmony is “optional.” A music director can easily find pretty contemporary praise hymn arrangements for choirs that don’t even read music.

Fourth, even if you don’t prefer contemporary “praise” hymns, many of us like them and find them very beautiful and uplifting. I know that it’s difficult to put yourself in the shoes of your neighbor and understand where they are coming from and that they are different than you, but try.

Finally, many of these arrangements also include fairly easy-to-play accompaniments that busy instrumentalists can sight-read on the first try. Many times when I am pinch-hitting for an ill pianist, I have played for the choir “on the fly,” having the music handed to me on Sunday morning, and playing through it during the Mass (or worship service in a Protestant church) without any rehearsal.

Gregorian chant is usually in Latin, does not have a “regular” melody line or rhythm, and requires a singer to be able–kind of–to read music, or at least be able to read whether the neumes or notes go up or down, and what the interval is.

Often, non-trained singers will have a difficult time reading both the notes and the words to unfamiliar pieces, and the result is a jumble, very unpleasant to hear. (That’s why a lot of conductors will start the choir off learning a new piece by having them practice the notes singing “la” or “doo” or “loo.”)

Also, correct Gregorian chant requires a particular singing technique that is different than what the average American uses when singing along with Bruno Mars or Adele on the radio. A lot of singers just don’t have the chops to do Gregorian chant until they are trained, and if you read my other post, you will see that getting a choir to commit to regular rehearsal attendance is very difficult. This makes it difficult for a conductor to accomplish a lot of “training.”

Finally, Gregorian chant is generally unaccompanied, which can be daunting for singers who are not very good.

Badly-done Gregorian chant is not uplifting and in my opinion, does not exactly glorify the Lord, although the Lord certainly looks at the heart and is happy with any musical offering we make to Him as long as it is done out of love for Him.

My husband and I have heard chant done at certain parishes that has recalled to our minds our many cats.

Mind you, I am not saying it shouldn’t happen. I think it is a worthwhile thing for a parish to pursue adding Gregorian chant back into the Mass.

What I’m saying is that it is not as easy as many of you think and it won’t happen in a few weeks. If you disagree with me, then go for it. Try it. Tell your priest that you are ready and willing to get Gregorian chant going in your parish. I would be willing to bet that you will discover that I am right about this one, and it is a bigger challenge than you thought it would be.

 

[pnewton]

My point is that if we are going to take time to learn music, we should be learning Gregorian chant rather than praise music.

To each their own. I prefer to expand new music slowly, and while chant is probably the lion’s share of new music I am doing now, I will not limit myself. As someone said earlier, we are Catholic, universal, and I try to keep my music universal so that all may be uplifted, not just those that like chant.

 

[cspb56]

Cat has a lot of good points. There is good contemporary music out there and again it comes down to a persons preference. Remember the music we label as tradition was also once “contemporary”. During Mozart’s time many considered him an untalented hack…hard to believe isn’t it. As I said in a previous post I try to use the best of all music out there and what is done does greatly depend on the talent a choir has. I have had people jump down my throat for using chant during Lent/Advent other have loved it. I’ve had people jump down my that for doing a gospel piece and others that want more. It’s not an easy job but everyone tells you what you should be doing.

 

[Ohana]

Boy, talk about sacriligious! You may not like some of the music that is sung now at Mass, but please try to honor the pe ople that try to celebrate. Back in the day of the Latin Mass, I heard no one sing except maybe for Holy God at the end of Mass. At least people are trying. Frankly, some of the modern music is written in a range that regular people can achieve. Characterizing them as Mass in a bowling alley, and some of the other comments here is really uncharitable. Clean it up!

 

[Sarabande]

Cat’s posts #47 and #48 had many, many good points, so I do hope that people do take the time to read them. What she wrote is what so many musicians and music directors have to go through at their parishes. At one of the parishes where I work, our poor music director was supposed to have the parish volunteer choir to sing for Christmas Eve, supplemented with professional singers to help out and just in case people didn’t show up. She had beautiful music planned. Guess what… after working with them, accommodating them with their schedules to make it happen, NO ONE showed up on Christmas Eve or the last rehearsal before Christmas Eve. Only the paid musicians showed up. The masses were still beautiful, prayerful and joyous, but it’s wrong to say you are going to be there for Christmas and then not show up. We ended up being a voice quintet singing with the organ and brass and strings. The congregation LOVES really good music, so they appreciate every bit of it, but many have no idea what this director has to go through. She was so stressed.

I hear this problem so often from my director colleagues. When it is volunteer, you really can’t depend on them because people aren’t willing to make the commitment. I saw it with my children’s choir. They were always there for our school masses, but if their parents didn’t feel like showing up for mass on the weekend, they wouldn’t show up either, so I dealt with a much smaller choir for the weekends. And you weren’t allowed to tell them that they couldn’t sing in the choir anymore if they didn’t show up on a Sunday or Saturday after a number of times. You just have to deal with it. For adult volunteer choirs, though, unless they are completely dedicated to their music director or to their parish, you always run the risk being short of voices. And of course, it the music can sound bad or trite.

Most directors would love to always work with professional musicians because they are usually dependable, you can do better music and you don’t have to be stressed out in the same way, but most parishes don’t have the budget or, if they do have the budget, don’t think it’s important and are content with the status quo.

I do agree with Cat that there always seems to be a lot of non-musicians who “seem” to know so much about music and liturgical music, but I’ve found when you actually put them to the task, they don’t know as much as they think and some make themselves look like ignoramuses. Some also find out real fast how much politics goes on behind the scenes when it comes to choosing the music. I don’t ever want a director job again mainly because of the politics. It can really turn you off to people in the Church. All I want to do is give my talents back to God and to help people pray. I don’t want to deal with the stress and bs that so many directors have to deal with.

Because conservatories and music schools don’t teach “liturgical” music for most denominations, it is definitely the responsibility of the musician to learn themselves. Read the documents, comments, etc. of the Church and various popes, learn the liturgy inside and out. Now, as a singer, I learned a lot of sacred vocal music for the Catholic church while singing in college choirs and then also was fortunate enough to sing at our cathedral which did so much polyphony, motets, chanting, etc. The music director was/is very special and he was an incredible mentor to me and inspired me to learn more. But not every parish has that, so we, unfortunately, do have to force ourselves to be more proactive in learning it all on our own. Then, you have to deal with the dynamics and politics of each individual parish. Even if you know what is the “right” way of doing things liturgically, your boss (the pastor or the music director) or the committees have the final say. So, you know that it can make you look like you don’t know what you are doing, even if you do and all the blame is usually placed on the you.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

As a side note to my brothers and sisters of the Latin Rite, I’d urge all to experience a Divine Liturgy (Mass) in one of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches if at all possible. The Divine Liturgy is chanted (sung) almost in entirety. The chant traditions of each of these Churches are very rich, and trace their roots as far back as the fourth century.

 

[Sarabande]

(including protestants, like the Bach family) but they also wrote numerous hymns.
The sad thing is that most CC organists either don’t know of this music, or the Pastor is musically ignorant and won’t allow its performance.

It’s interesting that you mention this. Having freelanced at numerous parishes, I have come across Catholic instrumentalists who don’t know any of the “traditional” Catholic hymnody. They don’t even know the “traditional” hymns from the OCP hymnals, only using a small number of the hymns. The instrumentalists at Protestant church actually know them more, but then again, there are a number of Protestant church organists who are Catholic and who could only get a decent paying job at those churches, since so many Catholic parishes pay very little or won’t pay or don’t want an organist.

The other point you made, makes me think of an organist I know who told me how the pastor complained to him about a Catholic hymn he used for mass. He said that it wasn’t a Catholic hymn and that it shouldn’t be used. The organist pulled out the hymnal and showed him that it was a melody and English translation from the Latin written long, long before the Protestant Reformation. The pastor didn’t really have anything to say after that.

 

[iloveangels]

I didn’t read all of this, so if anything I say is wrong please feel free to correct me.

We don’t need parish musicians to compose/publish. The music is already there. All we need them to do is read/sing/play. That’s about it. I learned music as a child, and many other people have too. We just need to play the music that is there. There are plenty of people in the community that can sing decently, as there are some people that can play the organ (but if there aren’t, a Capella is just fine too). I really don’t see how this is a justification for modern praise music.

BINGO. The music is already there. All we need to do is pick selections that are sing-able and make sure there is accompaniment in the right key for most people–a big problem in today’s parishes. For some reason I’ve never been able to figure out, they usually choose a key that’s way too high for most people.

We also don’t need semi-professional parish musicians at all, and we don’t need “performers.” Performers are out of place at Mass. If a person really wants to perform and the only gig they can get is the captive audience in a church, they stink anyway by definition.