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fix
Guest
Love must be properly defined and yes procreation is a central aspect of marriage. To deny that is to deny reality.
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fix
Guest
No, but it does not follow that sodomistic unions are to be accepted because some refuse, or can’t, procreate.
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ega
Guest
Do you know what a natural law argument is?
It states that you can divine gods plan from examining the natural world. Given that the anus and the genitals are all wired to the same pleasure giving sections of the brain the natural law argument support the idea that the anus can and should be used for sex.
The natural law argument also argues for best fits to be taken as evidence for function. Thus, the cod, long and cylindrical is a best fit for a circular muscle, the anus. The female genitals are of a very different shape, and the reason for this is that they are not so much designed for recieving the mans seed, but for delivering children.
A third and final flaw in the natural law argument is that it depends on a single ideal function. But sex, of any sort, has a social function of bonding two (or more) people together as well as procreation. To ignore one function and pretend it doesnt exist in order to support a version of natural law that feels comfortable to you is an abuse of the argument.
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ega
Guest
‘properly defined’? Interesting, you are telling us love and commitment and duty and fidelity are nothing compared to the arrangement of genitals.
Clearly reproduction does not depend on marriage, marriage does not create reproduction. And many marriages have nothing to do with reproduction, though both partners have the appropriate gentials.
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fix
Guest
The natural law is written and engraved in the soul of each and every man, because it is human reason ordaining him to do good and forbidding him to sin . . . But this command of human reason would not have the force of law if it were not the voice and interpreter of a higher reason to which our spirit and our freedom must be submitted.5
1955 The “divine and natural” law6 shows man the way to follow so as to practice the good and attain his end. The natural law states the first and essential precepts which govern the moral life. It hinges upon the desire for God and submission to him, who is the source and judge of all that is good, as well as upon the sense that the other is one’s equal. Its principal precepts are expressed in the Decalogue. This law is called “natural,” not in reference to the nature of irrational beings, but because reason which decrees it properly belongs to human nature:
Where then are these rules written, if not in the book of that light we call the truth? In it is written every just law; from it the law passes into the heart of the man who does justice, not that it migrates into it, but that it places its imprint on it, like a seal on a ring that passes onto wax, without leaving the ring.7 The natural law is nothing other than the light of understanding placed in us by God; through it we know what we must do and what we must avoid. God has given this light or law at the creation.8
1956 The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties:
1959 The natural law, the Creator’s very good work, provides the solid foundation on which man can build the structure of moral rules to guide his choices. It also provides the indispensable moral foundation for building the human community. Finally, it provides the necessary basis for the civil law with which it is connected, whether by a reflection that draws conclusions from its principles, or by additions of a positive and juridical nature.
1960 The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known "by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error."12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.
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ega
Guest
To be consistent i am afraid it does. You must either declare all mixed gender couple who cannot or will not breed are in a faux marriage and demand forced anullments, or you must admit that you dont really mind if some marriages are not fertile.
Arguing from both ends hardly seems honest now does it.
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ega
Guest
I see you dont know what a natural law argument is.
A clue: You are arguing from the conclusion, not from the logic or the observations.
I have given you three examples of natural law arguments…try dealing with those.
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ega
Guest
Incest may produce offspring with genetic abnormalities. That is the biological reason. Being part of the same family does not bar marriage, step-brother and sisters can marry.
Animals cannot give consent, so bestiality can be considered a form or rape or at least animal cruelty.
I think the fact you think gay=incest=bestiality is pretty strange. Do you have access to a dcitionary?
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YinYangMom
Guest
Love is God.
It is out of love that G-d created man** and** woman.
It is out of love that G-d charged man and woman to have children - so they can enjoy G-d’s love at it fullest by becoming co-creators of life.
The purpose of sex is to create life and to unify man and woman in G-d’s embrace. Man and woman are able to share in the Trinity this way.
Man and man,
woman and woman,
cannot enter the trinity with G-d as such an embrace is against life.
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Promotor_Fidei
Guest
Euthanasia and abortion kill, but sodomy and contraception attack the source of life.
We simply don’t get tired of defending ALL elements of the faith. Don’t worry, it’s no trouble at all for us. We’ve plenty of energy. Thanks for your concern.
It’s hurting Tom and Bob’s souls… and we love Tom and Bob.
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Adonis33
Guest
You recall incorrectly. No society ever condoned same sex marriage. Please provide the reference if I am incorrect.
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Promotor_Fidei
Guest
Adonis is correct. Some societies have condoned same sex unions, but these were never considered the same as marriage.
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fix
Guest
ega said:
Fidelty and and complimentary genitals are required. It is not enough to be faithful for a marriage to be authentic if that were true we could marry our dogs.
Once you separate reproduction from marriage you have what we have today which is the culture of death.
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fix
Guest
Why? That some folks are medically incapable from procreating is not their fault. It may be a physical pathology, but that does not mean they do not have the potential to procreate, unlike SS couples that will never have the ability to procreate.
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fix
Guest
I reject your premise. I defined natural law. You deal with that.
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fix
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So, you accept there are parameters? What is the basis for these? Is it medical science? Is it morality?
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fix
Guest
As you are aware the internal and external anal sphincters and rectal mucosal lining are not intended for sexual use or reproduction. Should I list the pathologies found in active male homosexuals, like “gay” bowel syndrome?
Gay propaganda.
I accept that sex has a procreative aspect and unitive aspect. It is you who only accept one of those.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Norbert:
I’ll put it simply. The homosexual act kills SPIRITUALLY by permanently seperating the people who engage in the act from God. That’s what the Hebrew word we translate as “Abomination” means:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
**Lev. 18:22. NAB **
It also kills the society that begins to accept it, along with Contraception and abortion, by causing “Men to objectify all women, even their wives”,“The destruction of the distictiveness and specialness of male and female” and “The destruction any need for a permanent covenanted relationship (marraige)”, “Women to forget their children”, and “Children to be seen, not as gifts from God, but as contraceptive failures”.
This is now on display in Europe where white Euopeans have such a low birthrate that they are not replacing themselves, so that they are having to bring in workers from No. Africa to keep their Social Welfare system and their economy going. Because they can’t take care of all of their sick, they’ve had to begin to adopt euthansia schemes such as the Grundegen University Hospital Protocols which will allow the EUtopeans to rid themselves the seriously ill and of the suicidally depressed by killing them the first time they say they’ve had it with life.
Norbert, are you sure you want to live in a world where every time you say, “I could just die!” you’re risking someone giving you a LETHAL INJECTION without so much as a word?
That’s how Homosexual Marriage, Contraception and Abortion kill society. The Nederlands has already generously done the experiment for us!
I hope that answers your question.
Blessed are they who protect the innocent. Michael
PS: And that doesn’t include the fact that many experts have predicted that, thanks to the relative disparaties in birthrates between white Europeans and the Muslum immigrants from No. Africa, the EU will be an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC by the year 2020!
That would really kill any Christian or any European Culture, as a feature of Sharia Law is that it allows NO other public expressions.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Fix:
All 3 forms of sexual activity that you’ve listed are considered to cause a permanent separation of God and man in The Torah .
Jesus didn’t do away with the MORAL LAW of the Torah, so we are still bound by it, and transgressions of that MORAL LAW are considered to be grave sins.
That’s what the 3 things above have in common, and NO, we aren’t discussing Same Sex Attraction - We’re discussing the act itself.
A thought, in and of itself, is not sinful so long as I refuse to do it and I ask for God’s help not to do the sinful act. The same holds true for an attraction that is NOT acted on.
Blessed are they who act to protect the innocent. Michael
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Norbert again you refuse to take the link I provided:nope: Poverty yes we all should do something to help,injustice,Abortion and euthanasia we are fighting as well and I still remember your comments about both of the subjects:nope: Destruction of the planet comes naturally if you don’t care about life:nope: The destruction of the family and encouraging men and women to engage in behavior that will put them in hell if unrepented is not loving.
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