Why so many Protestant denominations

[2ndGen]

What I couldn’t show through the emot-icons was “a tongue-in-cheek”. #560 wasn’t meant to be a serious reply… it was meant to illustrate that the differences in denomination are primarily minor issues - what color should the carpet be, what kind of music will be allowed during service…

There are basic truths of Christianity to which all who fall under the category “Christian” adhere. Both Catholics and non-RCs agree on many points of doctrine. Having lived in various places around the world I have seen more of a continuity of beliefs in non-RC churches than a disunity. And because this continuity is not what I would call a “conscious effort” on the part of these various churches to be saying/doing the same things, I would offer this unity is from the Holy Spirit. (Wouldn’t the Holy Spirit be working to draw believers together vs. separating them?)

My whole intention of the post (#560) was to point out why there are so many denominations, and also to point out that their differences often aren’t doctrinal ones, but rather petty ones.

Do I think it’s right for a church to divide over such petty issues? Absolutely not. It grieves me (and I believe the Father too) when we bicker over trivial matters (pews, carpet, etc.). But as I already stated, I still see G-d working to change the hearts and minds of His followers to conform us/them to His likeness, (tho’ I think this doesn’t happen quickly enough for some folks’ liking.)

blessings…

To me (I too have traveled and attended services of all faiths), the happiest Protestants are those that love Catholics and don’t care “how” we worship, but that we worship with them and I’ve had a profound love for them for that.

The most miserable Protestants I’ve ever seen are the anti-Catholic Protestants. They truly are a miserable lot. I’ve never met an anti-Catholic Protestant who didn’t have a filthy mouth and a miserable disposition.

And before I call the kettle black, there are disagreements among Catholics as well, but we don’t break off and start new churches. We remain one true family because like any true family, one cannot divorce their brothers and sisters. We fight, but we continue to break bread together…just like the original Apostles.

This leads to a great question…did any of The Apostles start their own churches with complete autonomy from Peter?

 

[paidion]

All the groups above consider themselves Christian. Who are you decide who can can use that designation? And all the groups above use the same Scripture you do and come up with their own conflicting doctrines.

To borrow an old phrase, “Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger.” Likewise, those that call themselves Christian, doesn’t necessarily make it so. The Mormons, and Jehovah’s Witnesses do not use the same Scriptures.

Jehovah’s Witnesses (and Mormons) in particular deny the deity of Messiah - their texts completely obliterate the translation of the beginning of John’s gospel, for example. I’m sure you’re familiar with “In the beginning was the W-rd, and the W-rd was with G-d and the W-rd was G-d…”. The Watchtower translation is nothing like it.

Please don’t lump all non-RC’s together.

And while I don’t disagree that some denominations are a wide variances on certain theological issues, the fact is they do agree on quite a lot.

I guess what separates the various denominations all depends on how you look at it. I see their agreement on theology more than I see dissimilarity. It’s all about perspective. Is the cup half-full or half-empty?

 

[2ndGen]

No one said we couldn’t love them. But you seem to contend that Christ revealed himself to them outside of the Church. Since Christ is the Church how can this be?

Here’s how I answer that good question…“which” church is Jesus?

church
–noun

1. a building for public Christian worship.
2. public worship of God or a religious service in such a building: to attend church regularly.
3. (sometimes initial capital letter) the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.
4. (sometimes initial capital letter) any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.
5. that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.
6. a body of Christians worshipping in a particular building or constituting one congregation: She is a member of this church.
7. ecclesiastical organization, power, and affairs, as distinguished from the state: separation of church and state; The missionary went wherever the church sent him.
8. the clergy and religious officials of a Christian denomination.
9. the Christian faith: a return of intellectuals to the church.
10. (initial capital letter) the Christian Church before the Reformation.
11. (initial capital letter) the Roman Catholic Church.
12. the clerical profession or calling: After much study and contemplation, he was prepared to enter the church.
13. a place of public worship of a non-Christian religion.
14. any non-Christian religious society, organization, or congregation: the Jewish church.
    –verb
    (used with object)
15. to conduct or bring to church, esp. for special services.
16. South Midland and Southern U.S. to subject to church discipline.
17. to perform a church service of thanksgiving for (a woman after childbirth).

I’m not trying to be a smart donkey, but is Jesus all of the above? Is He a building? A community of believers? A body of believers?

See what I mean?

Jesus can still be one body of believers and be The Church. Those believers can be members of The Body without being members of the earthly Church. They can be members of their own churches that men started, but still be believers in Christ. Belief requires no formal affiliation to an organization.

You and I both know that The Catholic Church is The Church that He founded upon Peter. Right?

Believers aren’t baptized as Catholics or as Baptists or as Pentecostals, but as “Christians”.

 

[2ndGen]

Well said. If if we were Protestants one of us would stomp off to form our own denomination being we had disagreements about scripture .

 

[2ndGen]

Well, there is Galatians 1:6-9.

The pertinent sentence is: “As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!” (verse 9).

Robert

Ok, but that would apply only “if” the person is preaching a different gospel. The person John referred to wasn’t preaching a different gospel. If he was, Jesus wouldn’t have told John to “not” forbid him.

Jesus wouldn’t have told John to not forbid him if the person was violating Gal 1. right?

 

[jmcrae]

Ok, but that would apply only “if” the person is preaching a different gospel. The person John referred to wasn’t preaching a different gospel. If he was, Jesus wouldn’t have told John to “not” forbid him.

Which means that this can in no way be applied to Protestant churches or to the Billy Graham ministries, since they definitely preach a different Gospel.

 

[2ndGen]

Which means that this can in no way be applied to Protestant churches or to the Billy Graham ministries, since they definitely preach a different Gospel.

What do they preach that is different from The Gospel?

 

[estesbob]

To borrow an old phrase, “Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger.” Likewise, those that call themselves Christian, doesn’t necessarily make it so. The Mormons, and Jehovah’s Witnesses do not use the same Scriptures.

There is no doubt about that. In fact there really is only one Church one can go to. But their denominations have just as much a claim to be called Christian as does yours. And they differ radically with your denomination although you claim there only minor differences among Protestants.

Jehovah’s Witnesses (and Mormons) in particular deny the deity of Messiah - their texts completely obliterate the translation of the beginning of John’s gospel, for example. I’m sure you’re familiar with “In the beginning was the W-rd, and the W-rd was with G-d and the W-rd was G-d…”. The Watchtower translation is nothing like it.

These are the kind of thing that occur in people reject the one true Church and personally interpret Scripture. And that is one thing that all Protestants have in common-they have rejected the one true Church.

Please don’t lump all non-RC’s together.

I don’t. You’re the one who said there are only minor differences.

And while I don’t disagree that some denominations are a wide variances on certain theological issues, the fact is they do agree on quite a lot.

But they disagree on a lot-some that are vital to salvation.

I guess what separates the various denominations all depends on how you look at it. I see their agreement on theology more than I see dissimilarity. It’s all about perspective. Is the cup half-full or half-empty?

What separates the various denominations is the pride of men who thought they could do a better job of creating a church than Christ did.

 

[2ndGen]

What separates the various denominations is the pride of men who thought they could do a better job of creating a church than Christ did.

 

[Kay_Cee]

So we can’t say either way that this person did or did not belong to another church.

Remember, even Jesus’ Church hadn’t been established yet so no Christian Church as a formal order existed.

So then, again I have to ask, how can you say that scripture passage was about churches?

Of course not. But, we should be only be concerned with those who do missionary work who claim to do it in our name.

I disagree. If someone is spreading a false gospel in the name of Christ, I’m concerned.

No, I wasn’t being sarcastic at all. Jesus’ only requisite for one to judge pass judgement on another is that they have no sin. Of course, by you passing judgement, you unsayingly proclaim that you are worthy of judging by having no sin.

If you weren’t sarcasic, you’ve insulted me. As a matter of fact, ***you have just judged me ***(and wrongly, BTW, by saying I claim in any sense to have no sin). Are you going to apply the same standard to yourself that you’ve applied to me? That is, do you “unsayingly proclaim that you are worthy of judging by having no sin”? After all, Jesus did say we’ll all be judged in the same way we judge others.

I don’t judge the condition of other people’s souls. But I sure will judge their actions.

If you have kids, and one starts to whack the other with a baseball bat, do you just stand back and say, “Hmmmm. Since I am not without sin, I can’t judge this”? Or do you take the bat away and tell the kid he was wrong? Wouldn’t you punish him? I sure would!

As laymen, we have no authority to judge who can and who cannot teach in the name of The Church.

That is a different topic, and I don’t know why you brought it up.

Well I asked because I honestly didn’t know. I know that there was a scripture that states that anyone who has faith can cast out demons. But it’s something worth looking into.

Well, then let’s drop it, shall we? It’s off topic, anyway.

Well, see, I believe that there is only One Church (big C) and many churches (little c). Jesus only started One Church. All other churches were started by men. There is only one “true” church. No church started by men is a “true” church, but a man-made church.

Unless God Himself ordained that man to start that church and didn’t reveal it to me, I cannot endorse any other church as members of The Christian Church.

Now, this in no way minimizes my love and desire to be one with them and I definately do not forbid them from doing anything in Jesus’ name. Only Jesus can.

I remember a few years ago seeing a documentary on the KKK. Some members were interviewed, and one said when they do a cross burning, they stand back and can feel the Holy Spirit flowing through them. I’d venture to say they’d claim they were doing cross burnings in the name of Christ.

Only “if” the sin is committed against you or if you have never sinned.
Pax

“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.” (1 John 5:16)

Seems to me the Bible says we have to judge whether or not a sin is deadly before we pray to God about it. There’s no restriction here saying only if the sin is committed against you or if you have never sinned.

 

[2ndGen]

So then, again I have to ask, how can you say that scripture passage was about churches?

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

It’s all about "me" in your faith , isnt it. .I am the sole arbiter of what Scripture says.I have greater insight than all those who went before us.** I** don’t need any guidance from anybody because Scripture is simple. The Spirit writes a word on my heart. **I don’t have to explain anything I believe because I know I’m right. Which begs again the question as to why you are here?

The better question is why are you here? Why do you respond to my posts? The above indicates you hear VERY LITTLE of what I say/write and what you do hear, you misinterpret or hear what you want to hear and ascribe all kinds of FALSE quotes to me.

Listen padnuh, you want to squabble? Go ahead, just find someone else. You hear what you want to hear, you put words in my mouth, you misrepresent me more than you accurately represent me.

You don’t read my posts for sharing or understanding. You just read my posts for the precepts of your rebuttals. You just want to argue.

“HAVE A GREAT DAY!” - Les Miles, Head Football Coach of the 2008 National Champions LSU TIGERS!!

 

[Kay_Cee]

Well, don’t you agree that there are people today that are not with us (Catholics) who are good Christians who will be saved?

Yes, but it is much harder for them, especially without the sacraments of Confession and the Eucharist.

That’s ok by me. I think we all have different interests. Some people feel compelled to discredit our faith, some to defend it, some to discredit the faith of others, some to attempt to bring unity. Different strokes.

youtube.com/watch?v=3_VOt7VsAK4

Don’t have time to watch a video right now. Maybe later.

I’m sorry. Sometimes, I wish we could literally talk so that you could here the tone of my voice. A lot of times what I say is misinterpreted.

See below.

Pretty smart of me, huh? I was wondering how long it would take for you after being placed on the other side of the fence to realize what it is that you do to others when you judge them.

As a matter of fact, no. I’m even more insulted now. I told you before that I was not judging souls, only actions. Yet,2ndGen, you said something false about me in a public forum. You said–

you unsayingly proclaim that you are worthy of judging by having no sin.

–which is a lie. I did not do that to you. I did not do that to anyone here. You yourself say–

You can judge the sin, but not the sinner.

–which is all I was doing. But somehow you want to play games about this? And by lying about me?

You know something? You are just like me believe it or not.

Well, I don’t believe it. I would never say someone was claiming she was without sin.

(Heavy breathing Asmhatic voice)

“Join me and together we’ll rule the forums!”

LOL!

youtube.com/watch?v=5dtBUou69SQ

2ndGen, I am not finding this the least bit funny. Knock it off or the discussion is over.

 

[COGHOBDOJ]

The better question is why are you here? Why do you respond to my posts? The above indicates you hear VERY LITTLE of what I say/write and what you do hear, you misinterpret or hear what you want to hear and ascribe all kinds of FALSE quotes to me.

Listen padnuh, you want to squabble? Go ahead, just find someone else. You hear what you want to hear, you put words in my mouth, you misrepresent me more than you accurately represent me.

You don’t read my posts for sharing or understanding. You just read my posts for the precepts of your rebuttals. You just want to argue.

“HAVE A GREAT DAY!” - Les Miles, Head Football Coach of the 2008 National Champions LSU TIGERS!!

Let me humbly apologize for this post. It was written in a bad spirit and sows the same seed which bothers me very much.

 

[estesbob]

The better question is why are you here? Why do you respond to my posts? The above indicates you hear VERY LITTLE of what I say/write and what you do hear, you misinterpret or hear what you want to hear and ascribe all kinds of FALSE quotes to me.

Listen padnuh, you want to squabble? Go ahead, just find someone else. You hear what you want to hear, you put words in my mouth, you misrepresent me more than you accurately represent me.

You don’t read my posts for sharing or understanding. You just read my posts for the precepts of your rebuttals. You just want to argue.

“HAVE A GREAT DAY!” - Les Miles, Head Football Coach of the 2008 National Champions LSU TIGERS!!

I respond your posts because you have left the one true faith and try to convince people that your decision was the correct one to make. If you are right then every body that ever belonged to the Catholic Church going back to the day Christ ascended was wrong. If you are right Chrisitianity is a farce-a false religion totally dependent on the whims a man. That is why I do not let your distortions go unchallenged.

 

[fbl9]

hey now you two,i mean 2nd gen and Kay-Cee, let’s throw some more fuel on the fire. what do yous know about this term"extra ecclesiam nulla salus est" outside the church there is no salvation. dogma. may God help us amen:

 

[estesbob]

hey now you two,i mean 2nd gen and Kay-Cee, let’s throw some more fuel on the fire. what do yous know about this term"extra ecclesiam nulla salus est" outside the church there is no salvation. dogma. may God help us amen:

Most people who have a problem with this doctrine do not understand the difference between being a formal baptized member of the Church and being saved though the Church.There is little debate that all salvation is through Jesus Christ.Since you cannot separate Jesus from his Church saying one is saved through the Church is the same as saying one is saved through Jesus Christ.

 

[2ndGen]

I’ve seen the Jesus is The Church debates.

What’s not noticed is that there are several definitions to the word “church” so I think that the starting point of that particular debate is the agreement on “which” church is being discussed.

Not which denomination, but how the word church is being used.

“Flame on!”

 

[2ndGen]

The official Church teaching;

Catechism of The Catholic Church

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

*“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 *

 

[2ndGen]

Now, if a Christian is taught a Gospel that is “not” The Gospel of Christ, they are not then included in those that are “not saved” because they are outside of The Church.