Why so much emphasis on Catholicism specifically?

[Quenched]

I tried to put this in the “Ask and Apologist” section but I’m not sure everything worked.

I’m an British Anglican Christian, brought up as such and, although the path has been wobbly (I fell off at least once) I have been so for my entire life.

I read the Catechism, the deuterocanon and, on occaison, St. Augustine. I’ve some of the works of the Reformers, as well as other major Christians who have helped shape our great faith.

I have Catholic friends and love and respect them as true brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus wanted us to be one (St. John 17) and who am I to argue with Him!

My question is this: why does Catholic Answers spend so much of its energies addressing/refuting Protestant Christianity?

Listening to a debate between Tim Staples (of Catholic Answers) and Matt Slick (of CARM) really saddened me. Here were two intelligent Christian apologists expending valuable time arguing with each other. The debate was impossible to follow for those of us who do not have Sacred Scripture coming out of our ears and I can’t think that it changed anyone’s mind.

Slick and Staples could each have spent the time explaining who Isa al-Masih is to a Muslim, or showing an atheist that faith is not blind. They could have spent the time in prayer and reflection, they could have read a Gospel. In a time where Islam is growing exponentially and atheism is getting angrier and angrier, surely it is time to lay aside our differences and stand together.

Mere Christianity contains the necessary and sufficient doctrines for our salvation, so why waste all this time arguing amongst ourselves? We will understand everything in heaven, let’s get on with our earthly work (Matthew 28:16-20) together.

God bless

 

[Tonks40]

Um…because this site is about defending the Catholic faith.

 

[Quenched]

So why not more articles for atheists? For Muslims? This site seems (to me) to have the wrong focus.

 

[EphelDuath]

Defending against atheism is significantly more difficult, and it’s a completely different issue altogether. I would recommend William Lane Craig’s website for that.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Quenched,

I have Catholic friends and love and respect them as true brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus wanted us to be one (St. John 17) and who am I to argue with Him!

How odd that you should quote this passage, which supports a view exactly opposite to yours…

We are not one; we are many. Christ’s prayer has not (yet) been answered. There is a wound in the body of Christ and we have caused it. Discussing our diverting points of view is one way towards healing the body of Christ.

I must however admit that arguing about religion is counterproductive. Dialogue on faith should strive to explain clearly what each one believes and why.

Catholics believe that Christ wanted only one church and that the Catholic Church is that one. There have been many great Anglicans who have accepted that belief and joined the Church. As for you, I pray that you will follow the path that God has chosen for you.

Verbum

 

[Quenched]

Hi Verbum, I’m just going to put up a passage from Paul’s Epistle to the Romans.

*"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.

For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;

for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.

So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."* (Romans 14)

It seems to me, that Paul acknowledges that there will be matters of difference, but that they are not to disrupt our work as Christians.

You’re welcome to pray for me, but if you do, please pray for a Muslim or an atheist at the same time. They do not know Christ.

 

[epostle]

So much energy is not spent refuting Protestantism as it is spent on defending Catholicism. Take a look around. Most of the posts are defensive, and it’s been that way for some 400 years.

Any “bible-only” web site that features Catholicism is guaranteed to be a hatchet job. The only thing Protestants agree on are the falsehoods they pass around on what they think the Church teaches. Many can’t tell the difference between a pastor and a hate cultist. I think it’s only fair that these people be exposed, and debates are one way to accomplish this.

Anti-Catholicism is politically correct, socially acceptable, is the last acceptable prejudice, and has become institutionalized in media and politics.

People hunger for the truth. They want answers, and some are honest enough to go to the source, but not quite ready to pick up that 1000 lb. phone and call a priest.

So they come to Catholic Answers to argue or to ask honest questions.

 

[Harmony1988]

Islam really has no direct link with Catholicism and therefore if anyone is going to be converted or the doctrines challenged, it takes a shift in the whole religion essentially.

Protestantism has always been attempting to ridicule Catholicism by proving their doctrines wrong and has I must say brainwashed some Catholics, this site is here to prove anything that contradicts Catholicism wrong, and it just happens to be mainly Catholicism, however if you have looked at the non-catholics section from time to time you would see Christianity vs Islam debates.

 

[Quenched]

I agree fully with epostle’s first two paragraphs. He might be right about anti-Catholicism in his part of the world, but I don’t see it so much in the UK.

Harmony, Catholics (and other Christians) do have a link with Muslims. We call him Jesus, they call him Isa. We need to show why our Jesus is the real Jesus Don’t forget the great commission.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I agree fully with epostle’s first two paragraphs. He might be right about anti-Catholicism in his part of the world, but I don’t see it so much in the UK.

Harmony, Catholics (and other Christians) do have a link with Muslims. We call him Jesus, they call him Isa. We need to show why our Jesus is the real Jesus Don’t forget the great commission.

I tend to agree with you. The internet is chock full of apolegetics and rightwing Catholic sites. There is very little else represented, but the reason for this is that the vast majority of Catholics are not upset enough to engage in debate. They are happy in their Church and have no issue with these quarrels. There is a strong belief here that Catholicism is the only way. Most documents that speak to ecumenism are derided as “misunderstood” if these imply that others outside Catholicism might well be saved as God may do as God wishes. Even if one believes that one’s own church is the ONLY way to salvation, I would guess its not a great selling point to deride others faiths and continually point out the “errors and mistakes” one might feel another has fallen prey to.

I find it interesting that I’ve been informed that Catholics are persecuted everywhere, yet I’ve never felt any persecution. The only real time I’ve ever seen Catholic bashing is from the unschooled,unchurched sola scriptura fundamentalists, who oddly enough are the allies of these same Catholics they call the whore of Babylon, whenever abortion or other hot button issues involving sex and morality come up.

 

[NotWorthy]

It seems to me, that Paul acknowledges that there will be matters of difference, but that they are not to disrupt our work as Christians.

And yet the thrust of nearly all of Paul’s writings are addressed at fixing errors in others’ ways. So are Peter’s and John’s Epistles. The Church was given the authority to do this. It did not die out with the Apostles.

The Church was charged with guarding against the wolves that come into the Church and teach in error.

You’re welcome to pray for me, but if you do, please pray for a Muslim or an atheist at the same time. They do not know Christ.

Everyday I pray for those that are seeking God (which includes Catholics, non-Catholic Christians, Muslims, Atheists, in other words, people from all groups), those that think they’ve found God but are sadly mistaken (again, same groups of people are included in these), as well as those that have given up on seeking God.

So you could say that I pray for you daily, my friend.

On another note, the context of your passage was in relation to those Jews that were still holding to the dietary and other Mosaic restrictions, while still embracing their new Christian Faith. Paul is asking his Jewish Christian brothers not to chastise those that are still weak and are unable to completely release their hold on Judaic customs.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Quenched,

The passage you cite refers to controversy within the Church, not to that between churches. It calls on us not to disturb the conscience of those who are of stricter observance than we are.

The following, from Galatians 1, is more pertinent to your question :

9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

Verbum

 

[Old_Scholar]

Hi Quenched,

The passage you cite refers to controversy within the Church, not to that between churches. It calls on us not to disturb the conscience of those who are of stricter observance than we are.

The following, from Galatians 1, is more pertinent to your question :

Verbum

Well said.

The important thing to remember, that although it seems that on these forums, many people argue “against” a particular religion or belief, the purpose of it all is to raise questions and get people to think and go to their Bible for the answers.

If we simply believed what we were told, then we would not be doing what we were instructed to do by Scripture. We are told to “search the Scriptures” in order to see if they are true.

Those who are seemingly arguing on this forum are dong a great service to those who are not so knowledgeable about their faith. If it gets them to studying and gets them interested in their faith, then it is well worth it. In most cases, those doing the posting are already well versed in the subject they are debating but by bringing out all the points raised, a novice can then attempt to determine what truth is.

When studying the Scriptures, praying for guidance first is the best thing that can be done. We are told that we will be able to understand them because there is nothing the Holy Spirit can not do. Beware of those who want to change what they say.

A great deal is said on these forums about the early church fathers and what they wrote. Well, remember this. Any good historian, scholar or theologian will always take the earliest known fact and emphasize that because time only tends to corrupt the truth. Therefore, you should read the early fathers’ writings of the first and second centuries. You will find that they always considered Scripture to be the final word in teaching and condemned those who strayed from the Holy Scriptures. Any doctrine that cannot be found in Scripture is a false doctrine, regardless of what you are told today. The early church fathers agreed on that.

So continue to read these forums, do your own studying and in time you will find the truth if you seriously look for it…

May God be with you in your search for the truth!

 

[trustinyou]

Well said.

The important thing to remember, that although it seems that on these forums, many people argue “against” a particular religion or belief, the purpose of it all is to raise questions and get people to think and go to their Bible for the answers.

If we simply believed what we were told, then we would not be doing what we were instructed to do by Scripture. We are told to “search the Scriptures” in order to see if they are true.

Those who are seemingly arguing on this forum are dong a great service to those who are not so knowledgeable about their faith. If it gets them to studying and gets them interested in their faith, then it is well worth it. In most cases, those doing the posting are already well versed in the subject they are debating but by bringing out all the points raised, a novice can then attempt to determine what truth is.

When studying the Scriptures, praying for guidance first is the best thing that can be done. We are told that we will be able to understand them because there is nothing the Holy Spirit can not do. Beware of those who want to change what they say.

A great deal is said on these forums about the early church fathers and what they wrote. Well, remember this. Any good historian, scholar or theologian will always take the earliest known fact and emphasize that because time only tends to corrupt the truth. Therefore, you should read the early fathers’ writings of the first and second centuries. You will find that they always considered Scripture to be the final word in teaching and condemned those who strayed from the Holy Scriptures. Any doctrine that cannot be found in Scripture is a false doctrine, regardless of what you are told today. The early church fathers agreed on that.

So continue to read these forums, do your own studying and in time you will find the truth if you seriously look for it…

May God be with you in your search for the truth!

Old Scholar, and what is the truth? seriously,what is your opinion of the truth as far as all these denomations(christian) go? you can email me privatly if you wish. This is mine…praying to the spirit,he will guide you? then why all the denomations if Jesus wants us to be one(belief,worship,eucharist) you talk about the early fathers said to search scripture,Paul said this to,and when he wrote it I believe he was talking about the scriptures of the old testament…(the catholics had’nt put the bible together yet).Paul also mentions “tradition” to.(very over looked today) The early fathers like Clement,Igantius,justin,ireanus, polycarp,had to fight not only against the Romans,but hersey to(almost like today with this sola scriptual) If i’m not mistaken,I believe it was Igantius that first used the term catholic church in his writings(to seperate those in the church from the heratics,although the way he wrote it was as if everyone then already excepted the word catholic.
you know the rest of history,luther,calvin,king henry(although i believe it was his son that kicked the cath.church out) and now look at how many christian sects there are.Thousands!!! all teaching different,on the eucharist,confession,marriage,the bible,etc,etc… I realize there were some bad popes(in behavior only) but they did not teach against the church,or make up any false dotrines…its kind of like being a parent sometimes,you teach your kids right from wrong,then suddenly they catch you in a wrong…does it make everything you taught them now,wrong?
so please tell me what is your opinion of the truth?

 

[Verbum]

Hi Old Scholar,

You quote me, but you seem to be answering another post. No matter. There is good stuff in your post. However…

Any doctrine that cannot be found in Scripture is a false doctrine, regardless of what you are told today

You mean “Any doctrine that goes against Scripture is a false doctrine” , don’t you?

Verbum

 

[trustinyou]

Hi Old Scholar,

You quote me, but you seem to be answering another post. No matter. There is good stuff in your post. However…

Any doctrine that cannot be found in Scripture is a false doctrine, regardless of what you are told today

You mean “Any doctrine that goes against Scripture is a false doctrine” , don’t you?

Well said Verbum!!

 

[Quenched]

Some interesting responses.

NotWorthy,

Yes, the thrust of most of Paul’s letters are to deal with false doctrines.We’re just going to disagree when it comes to Church authority.

I agree about the context of the passage but I don’t think that invalidates my earlier stated view. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t one of the Popes (John something, apologies for ignorance say “In essentials unity, in debateables liberty”? I may be completely wrong. :\

Verbum, I agree with Galatians 1. Romans 14 can only have referred to controversy within the Church because at that time there was only one Church.

Do you regard Anglicanism as some evil false gospel that will have me condemned to Hell?

Thank you SpiritMeadow (excellent blog by the way)

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, the thrust of most of Paul’s letters are to deal with false doctrines.We’re just going to disagree when it comes to Church authority.

OK, here’s the $25,000 question. If God felt there was an authority necessary to deal with false doctrines and heresies in the first centuries, wouldn’t there be a need for a Church Authority to deal with false doctrines and heresies after the first century.

I mean, Arianism came about. Was each Church meant to deal with it on it’s own recognizance?

I agree about the context of the passage but I don’t think that invalidates my earlier stated view. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t one of the Popes (John something, apologies for ignorance say “In essentials unity, in debateables liberty”? I may be completely wrong. :\

I have no clue about that statement. Maybe someone else has heard it.

Do you regard Anglicanism as some evil false gospel that will have me condemned to Hell?

No one here on these forums can correctly say that. Anglicanism may be a false and distorted form of Catholicism but only in some aspects. There is Truth in it’s Gospel, even if it’s not the Full Truth. And her followers can get to heaven, but only because, through Baptism, they are a part of the Catholic Church, even if not in full communion.

 

[Quenched]

Good $25,000 dollar question, it would be nice to believe that the Catholic Church was divinely appointed.

I’ve been baptised into the Church of England, and while I feel the current Catholic teaching on salvation outside the Church is a little convoluted, oh well.

Thanks mate

 

[NotWorthy]

Good $25,000 dollar question, it would be nice to believe that the Catholic Church was divinely appointed.

I’ve been baptised into the Church of England, and while I feel the current Catholic teaching on salvation outside the Church is a little convoluted, oh well.

Thanks mate

Yeah, it can come across as rather arrogant, I would imagine. But hey, so can that “No one can come to the Father except through me” comment. When you follow it up with “He who hears you, hears Me. He who rejects you, rejects Me” as well as “what you bind on earth is bound in heaven…”, it seems like the divine appointment has been granted.