I am not sure…Perhaps because - “To be steeped in history is to cease being Protestant.” That was certainly the case with me…I could not defend/support the SS position.Yeah and even better, why is it people like Simka do not bother to provide countless quotes from ECF clearly supporting other beliefs such as:
The Real Presence
Purgatory
Prayer for the Dead
Adoration for the Blessed Sacrament
etc
etc
etc
I thought the ECF were SS believers and adovcates of it?
And why would they, Joe? There is nothing wrong and many things right in Tradition. The creeds, the 7 general councils, much of what the ECF’s have said, oft quoted by the confessions and by Lutheran theologians. It isn’t like we as Lutherans expect a total rejection of Sacred Tradition. We just want it to, 1) confirm what is taught in scripture, and 2) that Tradition agree with itself, and that the modern teachings reflect that of early teachings.Every ECF that defers to sacred scripture also defers to sacred tradition. I have actually compiled a list so that when SS advocates claim the first one, they will also have to admit the latter.So far, in my search, not one has ever rejected sacred tradition.
I agree with you Jon, as you know.
Many sola scripura advocates e.g. my dad and sister, and folks here at CAF, claim scripture alone is all that should be considered, which boggles my mind, and yours too…Precisely. But more important, it goes to show how easily SS advocates are defeated because if the ECF held to their belief of SS, all other pratices,traditions,etc would have been rejected and considered heretical by the ECF’s since they are not in Holy Writ.
I never thought of it like that; really good point…
Well it is only logical. Like I said, SS advocates never present all the other aspects of the Catholic/Orthodox ancient liturgical practices, traditions,etc. Why? Because SS advocates claim it must be held accountable to Scripture-right? Or is it only certain aspects of the faith or what suits them?I never thought of it like that; really good point…
For this to be true, one has to accept the idea that sola scriptura rejects Tradition. And this is simply not the case, my friend. In fact, if given the choice to stand with Tradition and Scripture, or to stand with those who teach the rejection of Tradition, I would stand with the former.
Then sola needs to be taken out, brother.
But it is true my friend. Maybe not in your particulr faith,but many others is the case. But unfortunately, but it is the case now with so many positions on SS .As I have been asking Simka:
The sola refers to one thing: that scripture is the only final norm, that while Tradition is witness to the truth of scripture, it is not equal to it. Sola = one final normThen sola needs to be taken out, brother.
It can’t be sola is there’s more.
It’s kinda like saying that I’m solo index finger, when in fact I use and need the other 4 as well.
Sorry my friend, but that would be: ultima scriptura.
Did you make that up? LOL.
Well, hiya, joe! What happened to your old screenname?brother…
Jon,
I got sick of the old one. LOL…Just kidding…Password issue…I am still waiting for them to give me a new one. I requested it several times…
Heh.
So if you get a new password you’ll go back to joe370?Password issue…I am still waiting for them to give me a new one. I requested it several times…
Absolutely. I asked for the new password and I followed the protocol i.e. I go to my Juno account to retrieve the new password, but nothing.Heh.
So if you get a new password you’ll go back to joe370?
I forgot the old one due to fact that I got so used to typing in the first letter of my name in the name field, which in turn inserted, automatically, the password in the password field. Then the other day, the password field remained blank as did my memory…LOL…I think I will e-mail the administrator from this screen-name…I’ll look for it. The fact is that the Lutheran Church uses the 66 books. And even within that we keep in mind the historic disputes regarding some of them. But that does not diminish the fact that we have a high regard for the DC’s as evidenced by the LCMS having a study guide addition of them. The intent is for Lutherans to be knowledgeable of them as they are part of the history of the written word within the Church. Luther and his translation team translated and included them. The reformers saw fit not to establish a specific canon in the confessions.Jon,
Dr Barry (President of LCMS) refers to the bible as having exactly 66 books in an article “What About the Bible” on LCMS.org (you can google this article…I can’t figure out how to provide the link). Again, if the Catholics and Orthodox have agreed to the same 73 books (Orthodox a couple more) for 2,000 years, who’s to say that it is only 66 books?
Excerpt below…
*
First,the Bible is actually a collection of books–66 of them to be exact*–from the first book,Genesis,to the last,Revelation. These books cover thousands of years and were written in either Hebrew,Aramaic or Greek.There are many different kinds of writing in the Bible: historical narrative,prophecy, poetry, speeches, letters and so on. From a merely human perspective,there is no question that the Bible is a masterpiece of literature.
His words below on where the bible come from … don’t appear to be intellectually honest. The first sentence on the bible itself explaining how we received it are simply not true. That it is God-breathed and useful for teaching is certainly true…but that has nothing to do with HOW we received the bible. We received the bible through the Catholic Church…but he evidently does not want to admit or say this.
*How did we receive the Bible?
The Bible itself explains how we received it. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,rebuking,correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Tim. 3:16).We read elsewhere that,“Prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit”(2 Pet.1:21). Because people knew that the Bible was the actual Word of God, it was copied and re-copied with painstaking care and attention to detail,letter by letter,word by word.Though today we no longer possess the actual,original text of the Bible,we can be certain that the Holy Spirit has preserved the Word of God for us.*
What’s your thoughts here?
Many Lutherans I know do not even read them. They kind of place them into the “lost Gospel” group and figure they are useless.
