Why Sola Scriptura fails

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No, that blame would belong to the Enemy and the sin in man. Schism is a terrible thing, and we lament its necessity.
True, but what I meant is that Luther started the Reform and from the reform came reform and reform and reform and reform…lol. So Luther’s view of SS would eventually become reformed depending on the personal interpretation of someone else. When you open the door, the door is open.
 
This is where I have to disagree. In my church life, I’ve learned to trust God. So frankly, if the God says something, I’m going to believe it.

Well…how is God message transmitted to you, to the world in general?

Are you saying you trust your church (LCMS) which you equate to trust in God also?
Sola Scriptura is basically this, but instead of me trusting God as an individual, it’s the Church trusting God and His Word. Absolutely.
 
Originally Posted by Simka
There is no “verse and chapter” confirming SS. Explicit content within Scripture has never been a prerequisite for being Scriptural.
There is no “verse and chapter” confirming a number of doctrines … the Trinity, as an example. Both positions are reasonably and logically derived from Scripture.
Now you are trying to justify SS in the same category as the Trinity? Now that is an insult.
 
Did you make that up? LOL.
Totally! lol. Ultima is Latin for final or last. I figured everyone has a different definition for sola scriptura that I would just make one up and call it my own 😃

And I also made another new one" Solo Index Finger 😃
 
Simka;10754389:
aidanbradypop;10754327:
Once AGAIN…verse and chapter???

Answer my question instead of trying to steer attention away from it by asking another question tgat doesn’t even go with the thread please.

I will ask for the third time…where is scripture, verse and chapter, does it proclaim sola scriptura?
That’s all he does…

/ignore all posts from Simka
 
Since Lutherans coined the phrase, shouldn’t we use the Lutheran understanding of Sola Scriptura?
That’s what we (Catholics) say about the Bible 😃 We wouldn’t have any if it weren’t for the Catholic Church 😃
 
So if Luther believed this…why did he go so far as to allow himself to be excommunicated and cause be one the main pillars of the splitting of the church?
I think Luther’s answer is self-evident in the previous quote, “[D]ivine authority commands all not to be allies and defenders of impiety and unjust cruelty.” Further than that, I cannot speculate about the man’s personal views. Why did Leo favor excommunication rather than a pastoral correction of a German monk and rectifying the abuses in the Church at the time? Sin taints all - even those in His service.
But where does he mention to include tradition, the ecumenical councils, etc?
Please see the link I provided; these are addressed in the following points.
And regarding the PS 119 qoute…is the Word limited to the written word?
And when this psalm was written…this was first uttered in oral form, and only was later put in writing…so how can you use this Ps 119 quote for justification of your practice of SS?
Again, SS does not mean abandonment of tradition; only that it should be measured against Scripture. In pre-cannon times, what does it matter whether the Word was written or spoken? When the Holy Spirit gifted us the written Inspired Word, we were given a source to measure everything else (Scriptura scripturam interpretar).
Can provide the name of any patriarch who does or has not confessed the gospel in its wonderful clarity?
Without any malice intended toward my Catholic brothers and sisters, and with great respect for the ecumenical work of the wonderfully Christian men that have recently served as the Bishop of Rome - I have to name the office of the papacy, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone familiar with the Lutheran Confessions. While many (and I will admit, most) of these reasons have been corrected at Trent, Vatican I and II, Rome still teaches Papal Infallibility. This obscures the wonderful clarity of the gospel.
And are you the authority to make such a call?
1 Samuel 15:22-23
22 But Samuel replied:
“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”
I am not Saul; God has not placed me in a position of any earthly authority. I do not see how 1 Samuel applies here? But to answer your question in a word, no.
 
stedio01:
Again, SS does not mean abandonment of tradition; only that it should be measured against Scripture. In pre-cannon times, what does it matter whether the Word was written or spoken? When the Holy Spirit gifted us the written Inspired Word, we were given a source to measure everything else (Scriptura scripturam interpretar).
Okay,but here is where the highlighted words beg the question:

When,where and under whose authority determined Tradition should be measured against Scripture? Such a position is presenting Tradition as a subject of Scripture or inferior to Scripture. At what point in time was it determined such would be the norm?

BTW: You are aware that Scripture is part of Tradition,yet in written form? Scripture was not written as a substitute or to be superior over Tradition.
 
I think Luther’s answer is self-evident in the previous quote, “[D]ivine authority commands all not to be allies and defenders of impiety and unjust cruelty.” Further than that, I cannot speculate about the man’s personal views. Why did Leo favor excommunication rather than a pastoral correction of a German monk and rectifying the abuses in the Church at the time? Sin taints all - even those in His service.

Excommunication is a call for time out, let us go back to reasonable discussion, which is a form of partoral correction.

Prior to Luther, Catherine of Sienna called for reforms of the Church, talked down to popes, cardinals and bishops to reform themselves…and did not need to be excommunicated, and did not cause a split in the Church.
Please see the link I provided
 
Now you are trying to justify SS in the same category as the Trinity? Now that is an insult.
Nope. Not what I said, or meant. Your inference is off base … another “straw man” for you to shoot down.

What I have said is, doctrinal teaching may be explicitly given in Scripture, or it may be implicit … reasonably and logically derived from Scripture. Either way is sufficient validation to legitimately call a teaching “Scriptural”. This is not new, and it is widely accepted by the Catholic church, among others.

What I meant by what I said was, it’s unrealistic to hold to some higher standard of “proof”, those teachings you happen to disagree with.

Repeatedly insisting on “chapter and verse” is a pointless exercise in antagonism, having no other relevance to the discussion.
 
Nope. Not what I said, or meant. Your inference is off base … another “straw man” for you to shoot down.

What I have said is, doctrinal teaching may be explicitly given in Scripture, or it may be implicit … reasonably and logically derived from Scripture. Either way is sufficient validation to legitimately call a teaching “Scriptural”. This is not new, and it is widely accepted by the Catholic church, among others.

What I meant by what I said was, it’s unrealistic to hold to some higher standard of “proof”, those teachings you happen to disagree with.

Repeatedly insisting on “chapter and verse” is a pointless exercise in antagonism, having no other relevance to the discussion.
Ah no! It is called being pressured to produce something you realistically cannot provide. Again Simka, you are the one claiming it is a doctrine, yet have failed miserably to tell us when such a declaration happened? Is it pointless Simka or not convenient to ask: Chapter and verse?

Simka, I am going to ask you one more time, so please stop dodging me:

If **SS is a doctrine **as you stated and believed it was practiced in the early church, then kindly tell me WHY it was totally ignored at every ecumenical council? Not the usage of Scripture,but the doctrine of SS, which you claim already existed. Why wasn’t it defined and ratified with all other orthodox doctrines? Something you claim was practiced yet 2,000 years later and it still goes wayward?
 
Nope. Not what I said, or meant. Your inference is off base … another “straw man” for you to shoot down.

What I have said is, doctrinal teaching may be explicitly given in Scripture, or it may be implicit … reasonably and logically derived from Scripture. Either way is sufficient validation to legitimately call a teaching “Scriptural”. This is not new, and it is widely accepted by the Catholic church, among others.

What I meant by what I said was, it’s unrealistic to hold to some higher standard of “proof”, those teachings you happen to disagree with.

Repeatedly insisting on “chapter and verse” is a pointless exercise in antagonism, having no other relevance to the discussion.
Now that is very Protestant of you to say. 😉

Still waiting for those verses you say you have. If you are going to believe that Scripture is the bases for all doctrine and belief then one should be able to back up every doctrine in Scripture right? SOOO where are those verses that state Scripture is the sole authority? Come on now Simka. I have been waiting all day. Please stop answering questions with more questions. Thanks 👍
 
Simka,

This will save us a lot of time…

Will you admit that SS is a man made doctrine that was instituted outside of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and has not actual Scriptural evidence to back it up?:confused:
 
Now that is very Protestant of you to say. 😉

Still waiting for those verses you say you have. If you are going to believe that Scripture is the bases for all doctrine and belief then one should be able to back up every doctrine in Scripture right? SOOO where are those verses that state Scripture is the sole authority? Come on now Simka. I have been waiting all day. Please stop answering questions with more questions. Thanks 👍
It is called: Dodge the bullet.

What really baffles me how Simka is a staunch advocate of SS and has explicitly said it was practiced in the early church as a doctrine,yet has yet to confirm when,where and by whose authority it was declared a doctrine?
 
It is called: Dodge the bullet.

What really baffles me how Simka is a staunch advocate of SS and has explicitly said it was practiced in the early as a doctrine,yet has yet to confirm when,where and by whose authority it was declared a doctrine?
I once had Anglican family members like Simka. They are now part of the Catholic Church through the Anglican Use. 👍
 
It is a shame that you miss out on so much without completely trusting in Sacred Tradition as well. You are allowed to disagree. SS is a man-made tradition I am glad you find peace and serenity in it.
But we do trust Tradition - as long as it’s correct. 🙂

And be fair! You know that it’s in God’s promises that I find peace and serenity. 😛
 
I once had Anglican family members like Simka. They are not part of the Catholic Church through the Anglican Use. 👍
It just frustrates me when such folks give such arguments and positions, yet when asked to present legit sources all one ever gets is the same ole rhetoric. 🤷
 
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