Why sola Scriptura?

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ben
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The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that I profess received the Gospel and made it available as inerrant Scripture. **

Could you also say, “The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that I profess received the Gospel and infallibly declared it inerrant Scripture”?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Could you also say, “The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that I profess received the Gospel and infallibly declared it inerrant Scripture”?
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Yes… With two caveats: We have to make allowances for our Orthodox brothers, and for the pre-Trent view shared by Luther, Aquinas, and Cajetan for the Deuterocanonical books.

My second caveat would be to put “With God’s grace,” in front of it all.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
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Exactly! We know they are not Scriptures by the infallible authority of the Church Council that chose the books**. 👍

Today’s uniform Roman Catholic canon wasn’t officially codified until Trent, which didn’t start until the mid 1540’s – after the Reformation. Are you holding that Christians didn’t know what was Scripture and what was not until that time?

Totally unrelated - it’s much easier for other posters to read when you use the quote tool. 🙂
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**steido

Totally unrelated - it’s much easier for other posters to read when you use the quote tool.**

Thank you for reminding me, as so many others have, of my poor eyesight with the gray background on the quote feature. I have cataracts in both eyes, which I hope to have surgery for soon as I have recovered from open heart surgery.

Do you or do you not recognize the infallible authority of the Catholic bishops who approved the canon of the New Testament in the 4th Century?
 
**ben

Yes… With two caveats: We have to make allowances for our Orthodox brothers, and for the pre-Trent view shared by Luther, Aquinas, and Cajetan for the Deuterocanonical books. **

Hmmm. Then, as a Lutheran, when and why did the Church you say infallibly approved the New Testament lose its power of infallibility? :confused:
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**ben

Yes… With two caveats: We have to make allowances for our Orthodox brothers, and for the pre-Trent view shared by Luther, Aquinas, and Cajetan for the Deuterocanonical books. **

Hmmm. Then, as a Lutheran, when and why did the Church you say infallibly approved the New Testament lose its power of infallibility? :confused:
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Lutherans are usually quite specific in trying always to point to the cross - so we would say the Church derives it’s infallibility from God.

That way when the Church lets you down (with poor pastoral care, or a service that isn’t liturgical or any number of ways) we don’t abandon faith in Him.
 
steido01 said:
Today’s uniform Roman Catholic canon** wasn’t officially codified until Trent, which didn’t start until the mid 1540’s** – after the Reformation. Are you holding that Christians didn’t know what was Scripture and what was not until that time?
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It wasn’t necessary before that time as they weren’t as many crazies as in the 1500’s 😛
 
benjohnson said:
Yes… With two caveats: We have to make allowances for our Orthodox brothers, and for the pre-Trent view shared by Luther, Aquinas, and Cajetan for the Deuterocanonical books.

My second caveat would be to put “With God’s grace,” in front of it all.
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For the 1st:
:tsktsk: You can’t have the Orthodox and share the view regarding the DC’s. They have even more DC’s than we do 😛

For the 2nd:
Our existing one is better: Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam 😃
 
**Ben

Lutherans are usually quite specific in trying always to point to the cross - so we would say the Church derives it’s infallibility from God.**

Thank you for your prayers!

No doubt all infallibility comes from God. But it must be lodged in a certain institution that protects the Church from error. That institution would be the Popes and the Councils of the Church. So my question to you would be: when did the Catholic bishops lose the gift of infallibility after the Council that approved the New Testament, which was an infallible choice of books to be included in the New Testament? And why would the gift of infallibility be lost or transferred to other Churches? And how is infallibility to be protected if all the Protestant Churches are claiming to be infallible but believe in and teach contrary doctrines?

Thank you!
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Thank you for reminding me, as so many others have, of my poor eyesight with the gray background on the quote feature. I have cataracts in both eyes, which I hope to have surgery for soon as I have recovered from open heart surgery.
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May God grant you swift healing, if He wills it. My intention was to offer help in using the quote tool, not to harm. 😦
Charlemagne_II said:
Do you or do you not recognize the infallible authority of the Catholic bishops who approved the canon of the New Testament in the 4th Century?
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Well there’s a loaded question. To which *local *councils of the 4th century are you referring?
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
For the 1st:
They have even more DC’s than we do 😛
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As do we 🙂 - Martin Luther would have us have 74 books.
Our existing one is better: Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam 😃
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Ours is truly Soli Deo Gloria - Lutherans like Bach and Handel usually signed their hymns with it, and there’s one Lutheran poster around here that has it in his signature 🙂
 
benjohnson said:
Ours is truly Soli Deo Gloria - Lutherans like Bach and Handel usually signed their hymns with it, and there’s one Lutheran poster around here that has it in his signature 🙂
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I hear he’s a really nice, friendly, and all-around swell guy. And humble, too! :jrbirdman:
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Protestants don’t want authorized men to interpret Scripture for them.
Sola Scriptura is essentially “Whatever I want/need Scripture to mean for me.”

So it isn’t really “Sola” Scriptura, it’s “How I interpret” Scriptura.

If anybody wants to know the negative consequences of this “Sola Scriptura”
mess, look at the 30,000 Christian denominations, and even the Mormons,
Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Unitarian ‘christians’.

At some point one must conclude that MAYBE this freestyle interpretation of Holy Scripture
and even the butchering of it (referring to the exclusion of the Deuterocanon) is a little wrong.
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Hi,

Would you be so kind as to provide a reference for your 30,000 denomination claim? Thanks so much.
 
ForeverGrace said:
Hi,

Would you be so kind as to provide a reference for your 30,000 denomination claim? Thanks so much.
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It’s a rounding, not intended to be literal, but do a Google search, type
30,000 denominations, it’s quite a common number, other numbers in-
clude 33,000 and 20,000, the point is: THERE ARE THOUSANDS!

Also check out Wikipedia:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Also see:philvaz.com/apologetics/a120.htm
SAMPLE:
The 2001 edition (World Christian Encyclopedia), successor to his 1982 first
edition , which took a decade to compile, identifies 10,000 distinct religions,
of which 150 have 1 million or more followers. ** Within Christianity, he counts
33,820 denominations.**​
 
ForeverGrace said:
Hi,

Would you be so kind as to provide a reference for your 30,000 denomination claim? Thanks so much.
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While the “30,000” is a bit of hyperbole - It’s not so much the particular number, it’s that the number is more than one. We shouldn’t be in separate ‘denominations’ as per John 17:21

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
 
benjohnson said:
While the “30,000” is a bit of hyperbole - It’s not so much the particular number, it’s that the number is more than one. We shouldn’t be in separate ‘denominations’ as per John 17:21

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
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Yet the fact remains that we are, that none of us will commune with the other or accept each other, unless I am mistaken as to the lutheran’s.
 
Barnabus, early church father said, " Let all those learned in the Lord’s commandments keep them, as many as are written.". St Augustine who felt blessed by the tradition of church still said, “Therefore since we are too weak to find truth by pure reason and for that cause we needed the authority of Holy Writ, I now began to believe that in no wise would you have given such surpassing authority throughout the whole world to that Scripture, unless you wished that both through it you be believed and through it you be sought”…it is"easy for everyone to read’…and “accessible to all men”. " Confessions, book 5 The Authority of the Scriptures.
 
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