why st peter ?

[ahimsaman72]

bjcros:

I’m not Catholic so don’t hold Catholics accountable for what I believe. I am not happy that the Jews or anyone else is hell-bound. but the fact remains that there is no salvation outside of Jesus. I don’t know what you mean “quick to point the finger.” I am careful, I have thought this through alot. I don’t think that nething that I said was unbiblical. God forgives who he wants but I don’t see evidence for there being more than one way in the bible. And that way is through Jesus Christ.

I detest finger pointing, while admitting that at times I have done the same. Think outside the box for a minute. The Bible is a guideline. It points the way. The way is said to be narrow, but to me it is wide enough for many.

Peace…

 

[Mickey]

bjcros:

No friend I never said someone’s name and said that they were going to hell. Which is what judging is. I made a purely biblical statement. It is not a biblical idea that there is more then one way. I don’t decide what someone believes. Don’t preach judging people to me. The Pope claimed to have the ability to deny access to heaven, at least he did in the middle ages. A man can’t see another man’s heart, but God can. And God will judge us for what we believe. If any of this is non-biblical then point out my fallacy and I will correct my view. I will not change what I believe simply because the church teaches differently. You should support what you believe.

No, you only named all jews as hell-bound–a sweeping generalization! Then you methodically proceeded to bash the pope. May god have mercy on your soul.

 

[Mickey]

ahimsaman72:

Hello friend.

I’m not. It just struck me severely when I read the post that I pulled my trigger finger and lost my senses . Believe it or not, while I may disagree with some Catholic items, at the end of the day I respect Catholicism for what it is and what it stands for. And a big part of that is my admiration of Pope John Paul the Great, peace be upon him. What a fantastic hero in our modern age filled with turmoil and changes.

By the way, my condolences to you, Vern and others on the death of your great one, His Holiness Pope John Paul II, peace be upon him. He will be sorely missed. I for one will miss him.

Peace…

Thank you ahimsaman! He truly will be sorely missed. The Holy Spirit will choose his successor soon!

G-d bless you!

 

[itsjustdave1988]

We will be judged more by our likeness to Christ, than our erroneous or orthodox notions of Christ.

 

[ahimsaman72]

itsjustdave1988:

We will be judged more by our likeness to Christ, than our erroneous or orthodox notions of Christ.

How did I know you would have something insightful to add here?
Well, I’m sure the Jews would disagree with you, but hey, let’s not rock the boat, eh?

Yes, it is amazing to me that in my own life I have thought myself so smart and wise only to find that I am but clay in the potter’s hands. My ideas have been fraught with error and often wrong. It is our ideas that get us into trouble and our hearts that forge through the difficulties.

Peace…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Well, I’m sure the Jews would disagree with you …

Some might. But Jesus was a pious Jew. Ever hear of Messianic Judaism? They use the NT too. They believe Yeshua of Nazareth was the expected Messiah.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

See here: Basics of Messianic****Judaism

 

[bjcros]

Mickey:

No, you only named all jews as hell-bound–a sweeping generalization! Then you methodically proceeded to bash the pope. May god have mercy on your soul.

I probably was to harsh on the Pope. I was upset when I wrote it. All of you are talking bout how harsh it is and saying I’m wrong yet you have yet to prove a point. I know what I said isn’t politically correct but it doesn’t matter. If I spoke the truth. I’m tired of people misunderstanding, what I am saying. I aint just talking bout the Jews specifically. I am not a anti-semitist. I said anyone who rejects Jesus is going to hell. It doesn’t matter your race or anything else you deny Jesus the Bible says that there is no other way to God but through Jesus. I aint claimin to know neone’s heart I am just stating a biblical truth. God does have mercy on my soul.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

"It makes no difference what you do here on earth; what matters is the love with which you do it." (Bishop Fulton Sheen, Seven Words of Jesus and Mary, 30)

 

[ahimsaman72]

itsjustdave1988:

Some might. But Jesus was a pious Jew. Ever hear of Messianic Judaism? They use the NT too. They believe Yeshua of Nazareth was the expected Messiah.

Of course, of course. However, I’m afraid an Orthodox Jew would be quick to point out that a Messianic Jew is truly no longer a Jew. To believe in Jesus as the Messiah is to be a traitor to one’s heritage and faith. One who abandons the faith of Jews - Judaism - is a traitor to their people.

Messianic Judaism is really a horrific thing to a Jew. It’s an amalgamation of true Jewish faith. After all, a generally accepted precept (of Rambam’s 13) is that one is expecting the Messiah to still come. NEWSFLASH! That means that one cannot be Jewish, follow Judaism, and believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

Dave, I know this. I’ve been a Christian all my life. I’ve had Messianic Jews come to my Baptist churches and give presentations on the Passover and its meaning to both Jews and Christians. I’ve had them show us the shofar and speak of being a Messianic Jew. They may be accepted among Christians, but certainly they are not accepted among Jews.

If you have read the response of the vast majority of the Jewish people throughout the NT (I’m speaking of religious leaders), you will see their disdain for anyone claiming to be equal with God and authority to forgive sins. I’m simply looking at this not through Christian eyes, but through the eyes of the faithful Jew to the one, indivisible G-d.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

bjcros:

I probably was to harsh on the Pope. I was upset when I wrote it. All of you are talking bout how harsh it is and saying I’m wrong yet you have yet to prove a point. I know what I said isn’t politically correct but it doesn’t matter. If I spoke the truth. I’m tired of people misunderstanding, what I am saying. I aint just talking bout the Jews specifically. I am not a anti-semitist. I said anyone who rejects Jesus is going to hell. It doesn’t matter your race or anything else you deny Jesus the Bible says that there is no other way to God but through Jesus. I aint claimin to know neone’s heart I am just stating a biblical truth. God does have mercy on my soul.

bj, be well. You are obviously zealous in your faith. However, you and I (both non-Catholics) must be more diplomatic in our dealings with each other and especially Catholics. After all, we are guests here. And, guests should be neither rude nor presumptous. I admit I’ve done my fair share of being both. A lighter tone will go a long way in our friendships with each other and our separated Catholic brethren.

Peace…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

After all, a generally accepted precept (of Rambam’s 13) is that one is expecting the Messiah to still come. NEWSFLASH! That means that one cannot be Jewish, follow Judaism, and believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And don’t you find this a bit absurd? They are waiting for their Messiah, but if he should come, that would be a scandal to Judaism??? Authentic Jews ought to rejoice in the coming of their Messiah.

Even if Rabbinic Judaism was not convinced by their Messiah, or the other Jews, increasing in number, that testified to his coming, you’d think the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of their Holy Temple, and the massive destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, the Temple never to be rebuilt again in 2000 years might have been a sign of some sort, no? My read of the OT suggests that this CERTAINLY would have been understood by the prophets as a sign from God that the Judaism is not in God’s favor.

 

[ahimsaman72]

itsjustdave1988:

And don’t you find this a bit absurd? They are waiting for their Messiah, but if he should come, that would be a scandal to Judaism??? Authentic Jews ought to rejoice in the coming of their Messiah.

Dave, perhaps I confused matters here. I equate Messianic Judaism with the Jews who presently believe Jesus Christ was/is the Messiah. The Orthodox don’t like the term Messiah, but rather Moshiach. And of course, their view of Moshiach is that he will be human, a literal flesh and blood descendant of King David and will rule and reign over the world in a time of peace. I don’t find their views absurd.

Do you mean if Jesus should come or their Moshiach should come? If Jesus, then yes, that would be a scandalous thing for the Jews. However, if the Moshiach comes (not Jesus) then Christians would be scandalized. Authentic Jews will rejoice when their typified Moshiach comes. They expect it and eagerly wait for it.

Even if Rabbinic Judaism was not convinced by their Messiah, or the other Jews, increasing in number, that testified to his coming, you’d think the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of their Holy Temple, and the massive destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, the Temple never to be rebuilt again in 2000 years might have been a sign of some sort, no? My read of the OT suggests that this CERTAINLY would have been understood by the prophets as a sign from God that the Judaism is not in God’s favor.

Well, they experienced many disasters in their long history. Remember Egypt for 400 years? Remember the splitting of the kingdom - exile in Babylonia? The destruction of the temple would not be such a tremendous sign - given the circumstances I described above.

My reading of the OT and NT gives me the impression that Israelites are still a favored people in God’s eyes and we gentiles are simply grafted in to make Israelites jealous and return to God.

One finds again and again the process of sin and reconciliation in the OT. There’s sin - punishment for that sin - then reconciliation with God. And, it truly hasn’t changed much since.

Peace…

 

[bjcros]

ahimsaman72:

There are 7 general Noahide laws that can be branched out into many specific commands. They are not the Ten Commandments, which are of a pure Israelite nature. There is the prohibition against idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, sexual misconduct (homosexuality, incest, etc), killing, stealing and there is the expectation (no. 7) of establishing courts of justice to enforce the other six laws. Friend, righteousness is in the hands of God. Neither you nor I are righteous. God declares it so or not so.

But they were still given as the standard that God expects of the Israelites. It’s still better than the alternative of not attempting to follow any rules, don’t you think?

I was raised a Christian and baptized a Christian. It’s only been fairly recently that I have wandered from that faith. Again, God will judge and He will judge righteously. If I deserve eternal death, then He will mete out that judgement and I will have to accept it, won’t I?

I prefer to leave this kind of judgement in His lap. That’s where it belongs - not with you and I friend.

Peace…

You speak alot of truth. I have one thing to say to you. You should turn back to Christ. Good luck to you.

 

[bjcros]

bjcros:

You speak alot of truth. I have one thing to say to you. You should turn back to Christ. Peace to you aswell.

 

[bjcros]

ahimsaman72:

bj, be well. You are obviously zealous in your faith. However, you and I (both non-Catholics) must be more diplomatic in our dealings with each other and especially Catholics. After all, we are guests here. And, guests should be neither rude nor presumptous. I admit I’ve done my fair share of being both. A lighter tone will go a long way in our friendships with each other and our separated Catholic brethren.

Peace…

I understand what you are saying. I don’t want to just sit around and allow people to spread lies. My challenge to all who disagree with what I said is to provide biblical evidence for what you believe. It doesn’t make me happy that it is that way. but that doesn’t change nothing. God is just and he will judge as he wishes. the biblical evidence shows that there is no way to heaven except through Christ. I would be glad to use a lighter tone so long as it doesn’t compromise the truth.

 

[ahimsaman72]

bjcros:

I understand what you are saying. I don’t want to just sit around and allow people to spread lies. My challenge to all who disagree with what I said is to provide biblical evidence for what you believe. It doesn’t make me happy that it is that way. but that doesn’t change nothing. God is just and he will judge as he wishes. the biblical evidence shows that there is no way to heaven except through Christ. I would be glad to use a lighter tone so long as it doesn’t compromise the truth.

dear bj,

I agree that folks shouldn’t be allowed to spread “lies” - if they are lies. You will find the Biblical and historical evidence for what Catholics believe right here on the CA website. And, there are many, many threads already started that have discussed some of the issues you raise.

You will find that Catholics believe it is through Christ - through the grace of God that one enters heaven. One can be light in conversation and not compromise the truth. Remember the adage, “speak softly and carry a big stick”? (isn’t that right?) I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt or Truman that said that.

Peace be upon you bj.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

ahim,

I don’t see another precedent in the OT compared to the utter destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Even gentile historians of the time commented that the Jewish God must have handed them over to the Romans, as the destruction was so astonishingly devastating, while such destruction wasn’t the strategic intent of the Roman authorities. I’m thinking the the lack of a Holy Temple for 2000+ years is without precedence in the history of Judaism. Isn’t it true that they cannot even perform the Paschal Seder meal in accord with Scripture because they cannot offer a Lamb as a paschal sacrifice anymore (lacking the Holy place to offer such sacrifice)?

Exile to babylon was PUNISHMENT for unfailthfulness. Similarly, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 cannot be understood apart from PUNISHMENT for unfaithfulness. Now, how long will such EXILE last before one has to question whether Rabbinic Judaism is in fact the Tree that we are to be grafted onto? What was the longest exile the Jews had to endure in OT times? Whatever that generation of Jews did right before AD 70, must have really ticked off the Lord, no?

 

[bjcros]

ahimsaman72:

dear bj,

I agree that folks shouldn’t be allowed to spread “lies” - if they are lies. You will find the Biblical and historical evidence for what Catholics believe right here on the CA website. And, there are many, many threads already started that have discussed some of the issues you raise.
You will find that Catholics believe it is through Christ - through the grace of God that one enters heaven. One can be light in conversation and not compromise the truth. Remember the adage, “speak softly and carry a big stick”? (isn’t that right?) I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt or Truman that said that.

Peace be upon you bj.

So do you think that they are lies?
That may be the accepted belief of most Catholics now. However, if you hold the Catholic Church can’t err, then you must also believe that all those outside of the Catholic Church are hell-bound. There have been different views on this idea in Catholic teaching. In seperate council’s the Church has said that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. They also have held that there is no salvation outside of Christ, as you say you hold now. The first interpretation must then be wrong if the second is to be true. I hope the second is the one that is true, because it means that I can be saved. I will need Peace if the Church doesn’t err.lol. but peace upon you aswell.

 

[ahimsaman72]

itsjustdave1988:

ahim,

I don’t see another precedent in the OT compared to the utter destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Even gentile historians of the time commented that the Jewish God must have handed them over to the Romans, as the destruction was so astonishingly devastating, while such destruction wasn’t the strategic intent of the Roman authorities. I’m thinking the the lack of a Holy Temple for 2000+ years is without precedence in the history of Judaism. Isn’t it true that they cannot even perform the Paschal Seder meal in accord with Scripture because they cannot offer a Lamb as a paschal sacrifice anymore (lacking the Holy place to offer such sacrifice)?

Exile to babylon was PUNISHMENT for unfailthfulness. Similarly, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 cannot be understood apart from PUNISHMENT for unfaithfulness. Now, how long will such EXILE last before one has to question whether Rabbinic Judaism is in fact the Tree that we are to be grafted onto? What was the longest exile the Jews had to endure in OT times? Whatever that generation of Jews did right before AD 70, must have really ticked off the Lord, no?

hello dave,

yes, I agree the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple were pretty significant events in the lives of Jews. I don’t think the length of the time period is that critical. Admittedly, the Lord must have been really ticked off.

do you hold the view that God is through with the Jews, so to speak? different people view His relationship differently. Some say they are utterly cast down - some say they are still His favored people. I’m just curious. I don’t believe He is done with them. They are still special to him.

Peace to you friend…God bless you.