why st peter ?

[MariaG]

posted by bjcros

That may be the accepted belief of most Catholics now. However, if you hold the Catholic Church can’t err, then you must also believe that all those outside of the Catholic Church are hell-bound.

The decree of the council was directly to those who left the Church. Those who through no fault of their own, do not know the fullness of Truth of Christ as resides in the teachings of the Catholic Church, may still get to heaven. The teaching is still the same. If you are not part of the Catholic Church, you are hellbound. What has changed is the understanding of who may be part of the Church. It may include those who do not have official membership in the Catholic Church. It is still only through Christ, through the Catholic Church.
God Bless,
Maria

 

[ahimsaman72]

bjcros:

So do you think that they are lies?
That may be the accepted belief of most Catholics now. However, if you hold the Catholic Church can’t err, then you must also believe that all those outside of the Catholic Church are hell-bound. There have been different views on this idea in Catholic teaching. In seperate council’s the Church has said that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. They also have held that there is no salvation outside of Christ, as you say you hold now. The first interpretation must then be wrong if the second is to be true. I hope the second is the one that is true, because it means that I can be saved. I will need Peace if the Church doesn’t err.lol. but peace upon you aswell.

I withhold judgement against the Catholic Church. I do not believe those outside the Catholic Church are hell-bound. I also do not believe the CC teaches that people are hell-bound. If you read the catechism, you will find what Catholics believe and it will comfort you. When I have read it while questioning Catholic belief I found it easy to understand and calming. Remember, when you study history you must take into account the background and culture surrounding what you are studying. So, when reading what a council has taught or papal bulls you must remember context before making any judgements.

Peace be upon you and blessings from above…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Ahim,

do you hold the view that God is through with the Jews, so to speak? different people view His relationship differently. Some say they are utterly cast down - some say they are still His favored people. I’m just curious. I don’t believe He is done with them. They are still special to him.

I believe modern-day Judaism is no more in God’s favor than the pagans. Yet, I do not presume God is done with anybody yet–Jew, pagan, or otherwise–especially those who pray to Him and desire to live by His will, yet through no fault of their own still remain in ignorance of the Blessed Trinity, and in ignorance of his only Son, Jesus Christ, and ignorant of His Holy Church which He built upon the rock of Peter.

I believe 2000 years without a Holy Temple (half the time Judaism has existed), such that Rabbinic Judaism is forced to worship differently than what is prescribed for Judaism in the Bible, is a significant sign that the chosen people of God is not Rabbinic Judaism. For example, the Paschal Seder meal today is not the same as prescribed in the Bible. Why? The Bible calls for them to sacrifice animals in the Holy Temple as Paschal sacrifice to be eaten during the Seder meal. This sacrifice was to be offered at the place prescribed by God. Jewish practices of sacrifices and offerings have not been practiced since their Temple was destroyed, “because we are not permitted to bring offerings anywhere else.” (Jewis FAQ, jewfaq.org/defs/sacrifice.htm)

There are some Jews who believe they need to re-build the Temple, yet there are many who are afraid of the hard questions they would have to answer if the Temple was rebuilt. For example, if they had a Temple, would they resume animal sacrifices? Modern-day Jews may find this practice rather scandalous, according to some Jewish authors.

The olive tree of David, in my view, continues within the Catholic Church, just as the son of God himself established prior to the utter destruction of the Temple in AD 70. As such, the true ark of salvation is that community of believers who believe in Jesus Christ, in accord with His will, in faithful obedience to His commands. Those outside this ark cannot be saved, not by Judaism, not by Muhammad, not by Buddha, not by Noah, not by the pope, not by Mary, not by Peter, not by a Latin liturgy, not by anything other than Jesus Christ.

According to Catholic doctrine, Dominus Iesus, approved and promulgated by John Paul II, August 6, 2000, states:

"the action of the Spirit is not outside or parallel to the action of Christ. There is only one salvific economy of the One and Triune God, realized in the mystery of the incarnation, death, and resurrection of the Son of God, actualized with the cooperation of the Holy Spirit, and extended in its salvific value to all humanity and to the entire universe: “No one, therefore, can enter into communion with God except through Christ, by the working of the Holy Spirit”.

 

[Mickey]

bjcros:

I probably was to harsh on the Pope. I was upset when I wrote it. All of you are talking bout how harsh it is and saying I’m wrong yet you have yet to prove a point. I know what I said isn’t politically correct but it doesn’t matter. If I spoke the truth. I’m tired of people misunderstanding, what I am saying. I aint just talking bout the Jews specifically. I am not a anti-semitist. I said anyone who rejects Jesus is going to hell. It doesn’t matter your race or anything else you deny Jesus the Bible says that there is no other way to God but through Jesus. I aint claimin to know neone’s heart I am just stating a biblical truth. God does have mercy on my soul.

Love one another.

 

[bjcros]

ahimsaman72:

I withhold judgement against the Catholic Church. I do not believe those outside the Catholic Church are hell-bound. I also do not believe the CC teaches that people are hell-bound. If you read the catechism, you will find what Catholics believe and it will comfort you. When I have read it while questioning Catholic belief I found it easy to understand and calming. Remember, when you study history you must take into account the background and culture surrounding what you are studying. So, when reading what a council has taught or papal bulls you must remember context before making any judgements.

Peace be upon you and blessings from above…/QUOTE

I know the contexts. If you believe that the Church can’t err then you must also accept that those outside the church are hell-bound. It is simple. You can’t have it both ways that the church doesn’t err, and that those outside the church are able to be saved. I believe the Catholic Church can err, and has. I am not a member of the Catholic Church so I don’t have to believe that. I think that some Catholics especially those in America, just pick and choose what doctrines they like. You can’t do that and still be Catholic. The Church has changed its position as well. They have said different things in regard to salvation. None outside of Christ receive salvation, and none outside of the church receive salvation. These are two different statements with different conclusions. They are reactions to different events. However, if the Catholic Church can’t err then I am hell-bound unless I turn to the Catholic Church and the same with anyone else, because I don’t have salvation.

 

[bjcros]

itsjustdave1988:

Ahim,

The olive tree of David, in my view, continues within the Catholic Church, just as the son of God himself established prior to the utter destruction of the Temple in AD 70. As such, the true ark of salvation is that community of believers who believe in Jesus Christ, in accord with His will, in faithful obedience to His commands. Those outside this ark cannot be saved, not by Judaism, not by Muhammad, not by Buddha, not by Noah, not by the pope, not by Mary, not by Peter, not by a Latin liturgy, not by anything other than Jesus Christ.

According to Catholic doctrine, Dominus Iesus, approved and promulgated by John Paul II, August 6, 2000, states:

Actually I think that the Catholic Church taught that we are justified through faith and works. This is one of the issues that lead Luther to split away from the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church teaches differently now then does that mean that they erred the last time or this time or both times, or what does that mean?

 

[LSK]

You do not understand the beliefs of the Catholic Church. We do believe that there is no error in the Holy Scripture and the Sacred Tradition - but we do know that HUMAN BEINGS can misinterpret, or not fully understand, or quite frankly be in error. We do not believe that all people OUTSIDE the Catholic faith are hellbound. Our Catechism does not teach that and if you read it you would know that.

I am 49 years old and I went through 12 years of Catholic School and I was never taught that all people outside the Catholic faith are hellbound. I am so sorry you were given incorrect information. Read our Catechism. It is online at the Vatican website. You will be so enlightenned and you will find out we are not the big bad boogey Church of your nightmares.

Now look. There are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and then call themselves Christians. There are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and call themselves Catholics. Shoot, there are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and call themselves MORMONS. I spoke to a young man the other day who told me he does not believe the story about the special glasses or the golden plates - and yet that is a mainstay of his religion. These people exist in every belief system and in every religion. We cannot run around the world slapping our hands across the mouths of all these people. What we can do is just try and love them while presenting the truth.

LOVE them.

 

[bjcros]

LSK:

You do not understand the beliefs of the Catholic Church. We do believe that there is no error in the Holy Scripture and the Sacred Tradition - but we do know that HUMAN BEINGS can misinterpret, or not fully understand, or quite frankly be in error. We do not believe that all people OUTSIDE the Catholic faith are hellbound. Our Catechism does not teach that and if you read it you would know that.

I am 49 years old and I went through 12 years of Catholic School and I was never taught that all people outside the Catholic faith are hellbound. I am so sorry you were given incorrect information. Read our Catechism. It is online at the Vatican website. You will be so enlightenned and you will find out we are not the big bad boogey Church of your nightmares.

Now look. There are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and then call themselves Christians. There are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and call themselves Catholics. Shoot, there are people who pick and choose what they want to believe and call themselves MORMONS. I spoke to a young man the other day who told me he does not believe the story about the special glasses or the golden plates - and yet that is a mainstay of his religion. These people exist in every belief system and in every religion. We cannot run around the world slapping our hands across the mouths of all these people. What we can do is just try and love them while presenting the truth.

LOVE them.

I wasn’t referring to the Catechism. Am I not right that a church council said that those outside of the church are outside of salvation? There was also a council that said that there is no salvation outside of Christ. These aren’t contradictory necesarily. However, if the church didn’t err, as you say that it doesn’t, then how is it you can tell me that I have salvation because I am not a Catholic. Also how can you say that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach it. because it does. Is it that I misunderstand what the Catholic church taught because it seems kind of clear? If you reject the fact that there is no salvation outside of the church you also must reject the belief that the church can’t err. Now I ask you this, How is it that you teach there is still salvation outside of church, despite the church saying the exact opposite? You are rejecting the teaching of the church. I believe that there is no salvation outside of Christ. With out salvation we are going to hell. I don’t view the Catholic as the boogey man. I do have alot of problems with core Catholic beliefs. I know there are people like that in every religion. I love everyone, despite my differences with them. However, just because I love them doesn’t mean I will not tell them they are wrong. But rather it is because I love them that I say what I say. In the hopes that they will recognize the error of their ways.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

bjcros,

bjcros:

Actually I think that the Catholic Church taught that we are justified through faith and works. This is one of the issues that lead Luther to split away from the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church teaches differently now then does that mean that they erred the last time or this time or both times, or what does that mean?

The Catholic Church has taught and will forever teach that we are justified by faith. Justifying faith differs from dead faith, however. Justifying faith is never de-coupled from charity and hope. Thus, faith without love is nothing.

Martin Luther rejected the Catholic doctrine of justification by faith formed by charity…

[Catholics] say that this faith does not justify unless it is “formed by love.” This is not the truth of the Gospel; it is a falsehood and pretense … For faith that takes hold of Christ, the Son of God, and is adorned by Him is the faith that justifies, not a faith that includes love. … we refuse to concede … that faith formed by love justifies. (LW 26, 88-90, emphasis added)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

bjcros,

Am I not right that a church council said that those outside of the church are outside of salvation? … then how is it you can tell me that I have salvation because I am not a Catholic.

I’ve answered similar questions in the past. Here’s an excerpt from a similar discussion found here: itsjustdave1988.blogspot.com/2005/02/attending-protestant-services.html

[Wray Davis asked:] “… would the official Catholic position be that if we [non-Catholics] died in this state, we are lost?”

Presuming you have been validly baptized as a Christian, or at least desired baptism, then your original sin has been remitted. The only thing that would send you to hell is to die unrepentent of one or more mortal sins.

“There is sin that is mortal… there is sin that is not mortal.” (1 John 5:16-17, NRSV)

“When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1856, St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II,88,2)

Rejecting the dogmas of Catholicism is an objectively grave sin, and if done with full advertence and perfect consent of will, it is a mortal sin. Whether your act is done with perfect consent of the will and/or with full advertence of the intellect (i.e., formal sin) is, like I stated earlier, only known to God.

Having a better than average understanding of the teachings of Catholicism does not mean you have full advertence and/or perfect consent of the will. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. Only God knows. "Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
" (CCC 1735).

Your responsibility is to inform your conscience, then follow it.

“Conscience is man’s most secret core, and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths” (CCC 5, Gaudium et Spes 16). “Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.” (CCC 1801) “Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.” (CCC 1786) “A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.” (CCC 1800)

The official Catholic position is that sins must be a voluntary act to be imputable acts. To the extent that voluntariness is dimished, imputability is diminished.

“Full advertence in sinning is had when we know perfectly well that we are doing a serious evil.” (Catechism of Pius X, The Sacrament of Penance)

“Perfect consent of the will is verified in sinning when we deliberately determine to do a thing although we know that thing to be sinful.” (ibid.)

If you know the Catholic Church was founded by God through Christ and you refused to enter into it or remain in it, you are not in a state of grace, and are not on the way of salvation, according to Catholic theology.

“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846)

“Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.” (CCC 1860)

So, the Catholic Church continues to pray for those that are outside the true Catholic faith, and even prays for those canonically excommunicated from the Catholic Church, so that they may come to believe and live charitabley and faithully as Christians. …

to be continued…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

continued…

[Wray Davis asked:]
“If I died as a Protestant, I would not necessarily have asked for absolution of the last several sins, believing them to already be absolved (the point of continued asking of forgiveness being to encourage a contrite heart and right intentions - an attitude change instead of actual forgiveness). Would this put me in jeopardy from the Catholic perspective?”

From a Catholic perspective, remittance of mortal sin is not possible without contrition of charity. (1 Pet 4:8 “love covers a multitude of sins”; also Prov 10:12 “love covers all offenses”). This contrition of charity need not be explicitly expressed, but can be implicit, and includes at least the implicit intention of confessing your sins explicitly.

“Contrition or sorrow for sin is a grief of the soul leading us to detest sins committed and to resolve not to commit them any more… a grief of soul for having offended God because He is infinitely good and worthy of being loved for His own sake.
… without [contrition] no pardon for sins is obtainable, while with it alone, perfect pardon can be obtained, provided that along with it there is the desire, at least implicit, of going to confession.” (Catechism of Pius X)

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

I didn’t read all the responses, but as far as why Peter-I heard it was because it was because he was weak, and the Lord loves raising up the weak and humble. Jesus always talks about good things coming to the “poor” and “poor in spirit.”

 

[bjcros]

itsjustdave1988:

continued…

So was the church wrong when it said that those outside of the church are outside of salvation? You just wrote a good proof of what you believe. However, it goes against what the Catholic Church teaches. Unless it has admitted its error. I believe that I have salvation, despite not being in Catholicism.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

bjcros,

bjcros:

So was the church wrong when it said that those outside of the church are outside of salvation? You just wrote a good proof of what you believe. However, it goes against what the Catholic Church teaches. Unless it has admitted its error. I believe that I have salvation, despite not being in Catholicism.

I don’t think you are paying close enough attention to what I wrote, to include the sources I’ve cited. It is true that the above is what I believe, but it is also what the Catholic Church teaches. You need to set aside your poor understanding of Catholicism, and be humble enough to admit you perhaps have misunderstood Catholicism.

My beliefs are FROM the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the teachings of the solemn and ordinary magisterium of past popes and councils.

I can explain further if you wish, but please understand that I am sourcing my teachings from OFFICIAL CATHOLIC TEACHING.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

bjcros,

So was the church wrong when it said that those outside of the church are outside of salvation?

No, the Church was not wrong. What is wrong is your “Feeneyist” understanding of this teaching. Fr. Leonard Feeney (1940s) understood this teaching in a similar way, and he was censured and excommunicated by the Catholic Church.

The following is from the Holy Office of the Catholic Church, on the correct way to understand this teaching…

Letter of the Holy Office, approved and promulgated by Pius XII (August 8, 1949), against the dissent and disobedience of Fr. Leonard Feeney from the Archdiocese of Boston:

the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate [Feeneyism] controversy arose from the fact that the [doctrinal matters were] not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the [Feeneyist movement] refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities…

… dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

… no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

… that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

… this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. … the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire. … those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who “are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire,” and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation… But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith…

… Hence, one cannot understand how the [Feeneyists] can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of … the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.

Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute … presents himself as a “Defender of the Faith,” and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church…

Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after “Rome has spoken” they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church “only by an unconscious desire.” Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation."

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I believe that I have salvation, despite not being in Catholicism.

I understand. Yet, a Moonie from Osaka Japan came to my doorstep yesterday who believes Sun Myung Moon is the messiah of the Second Coming. Does his firm belief make it true? Will he be saved by his beliefs, or might he be saved despite them, depending upon certain conditions?

You may very well be on the way of salvation, but this will be possible ONLY if you are joined, at least implicitly through desire, conscious or unconscious, to the visible Catholic Church pastored by Pope Benedict XVI, living in what Catholicism calls “good faith.”

This is no different than pre-Vatican II teaching. Observe,

Archbishop Fulton Sheen, from his book *Seven Words of Jesus and Mary *(1945), commenting on Jesus’ first words from the Cross, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” (Lk 23:34)

Ignorance [of their evil deeds] here is represented not as a cure, but a blessing… Our Savior…implied that [his executioners] could be forgiven ONLY because they were ignorant of their terrible crime. It was not their wisdom that would save them, but their ignorance. (Fulton Sheen, *Seven Words of Jesus and Mary, *ch. 1)

The same can be said of the damnable sins of heresy or schism, which non-Catholic Christians all commit, either defiantly or ignorantly. If heretics are to be saved, it will not be their wisdom that would save them, but their ignorance.

And, as Pius XII states above, "it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith"

According to Catholic teaching, you have just as much a chance of salvation as the Moonie that visited my doorstep the other day, depending upon whether or not you have 1) perfect charity, 2) supernatural faith, 3) a desire, at least implicit, of being joined to the Catholic Church.

I undertand that you think this is a change in Catholic doctrine, but it is not. St. Pius X (pope from 1903-14), taught:

No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church. … If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation (Catechism of Pius X, Nineth Article of the Creed)

If this has been reversed by some council as you erroneously contend, then please point out the council. Which document? When? I suggest your search will be in vain, as this is the remains the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[bjcros]

itsjustdave1988:

I understand. Yet, a Moonie from Osaka Japan came to my doorstep yesterday who believes Sun Myung Moon is the messiah of the Second Coming. Does his firm belief make it true? Will he be saved by his beliefs, or might he be saved despite them, depending upon certain conditions?

You may very well be on the way of salvation, but this will be possible ONLY if you are joined, at least implicitly through desire, conscious or unconscious, to the visible Catholic Church pastored by Pope Benedict XVI, living in what Catholicism calls “good faith.”
According to Catholic teaching, you have just as much a chance of salvation as the Moonie that visited my doorstep the other day, depending upon whether or not you have 1) perfect charity, 2) supernatural faith, 3) a desire, at least implicit, of being joined to the Catholic Church.

I undertand that you think this is a change in Catholic doctrine, but it is not. St. Pius X (pope from 1903-14), taught:

If this has been reversed by some council as you erroneously contend, then please point out the council. Which document? When? I suggest your search will be in vain, as this is the remains the teaching of the Catholic Church.

I don’t think that I said the Catholic Church has changed its position. I was asking how Catholics can tell me that the Catholic Church doesn’t say that I am outside of Salvation. If you look back on peoples responses to me. That is what they say. I don’t mind the Catholic Church thinking that I’m going to hell. because I think that they are wrong and that they have a non-biblical view on that. I think that the church has erred and this is one of them. Thank-you for voicing the true teaching of the Catholic Church. I appreciate what you have said. Most Catholics reject the interpretation that Protestants are outside of Salvation, especially in here.
I understood what the Catholic Church was saying.
If I’m wrong on this then I’ll accept hell willingly. However, I think that you and the Catholic Church is wrong.

 

[LSK]

The Church teaches that if you do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but you believe in Jesus Christ, then you are not outside of salvation. That has always been the teaching. I think that, again, this is a matter of semantics.

This is Biblically based - nothing the Church teaches is not reflected in the Holy Scripture. The Truth is the Truth - we may not always understand it, and we may even misinterpret it but that mankind in error, not the Body of Christ - which is the Church.

 

[RonWI]

LSK:

The Church teaches that if you do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but you believe in Jesus Christ, then you are not outside of salvation. That has always been the teaching. I think that, again, this is a matter of semantics.

http://www.ihsv.com/areonlycatholicssaved.html

The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441)

Athanaisiam Creed: And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. … This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

You see? That has always been the teaching.

 

[bjcros]

http://www.ihsv.com/areonlycatholicssaved.html

The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441)

Athanaisiam Creed: And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. … This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

You see? That has always been the teaching.

Those are different, especially from my point of view. The first doesn’t allow for my Salvation if I continue in my current beliefs. The excerpt from the second does allow for my Salvation if I continue in my current beliefs.