Why stay good?

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Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
 
I think that’s a fortunate dilemma. For me, the question is “Why can’t I be good?” :banghead:
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
I have this problem almost every day with my girlfriend, we quit acting impurely a month or 2 ago. Before it was all about pleasure and sometimes I wonder why I can’t just have that back since it didn’t seem to hurt anyone. But we went through some really rough times and I can’t help but think because we treated each other as objects instead of humans.

But I know by doing this I’ll be doing something for God, who is ‘all good and deserving of all my love.’ But if that doesn’t inspire me, I remember God will reward me forever with greater pleasure than I can find on Earth. For every sinful pleasure you give up on Earth, God will reward a thousandfold.
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
A basic reason is that we fear the eternal fires of Hell. A better reason is that we love God in all His goodness.
 
I’m studying a book by a Jewish ethicist and moralist, Rabbi Elliot N. Dorff, “Love Your Neighbor and Yourself” Jewish Publication Society, Philadelphia, 2003.

Ethics and morality are different but related concepts, as Dorff points out.

This thread is about an issue in ethics, a very central one, that Dorff describes in the book.

To the Jews, “The Torah itself provides an immensely sophisticated list beyond reward or punishment of why people should obey laws and act morally.”

These include:
-the inherent wisdom of doing so
-the (Sinai) covenant with its morality of promise keeping
-gratitude towards God
-the aspiration for holiness
-our responsibility to preserve and enhance God’s reputation and our own
-love between God and us
-make us more humane

His list encompasses 19 reasons, in all. (pp 15-16)

I have not read the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see if there is a similar statement of ethics fundamentals, but my own justification is expressed in my signature line, below.

Dorff has published three books on morality, through the JPS. This book focuses on issues of personal morality. Echoing the rabbinic sages, the first and foremost basis for ethical conduct is that each person is created in the image and likeness of God – certainly a matter of faith strongly emphasized in the New Testament, as well.
 
Stay good because your rewards are in heaven with God. Without God, St Paul says in the bible that you should do whatever you want that makes you feel good. The whole question of good and evil is interesting because atheists used the problem of evil against the church but if God doesnt exist, there is no such thing really as good and evil on any objective level. So be good so that you can be counted on as a follower and witness for Christ. You will be known by your fruits and your love.
 
Because I heard hell is a little toasty this time of year?

Nono, I kid XD sorta. I stay good because, well…I’m the quitisential Good Girl. I have a guilt complex like CRAZY woah, and if I do something wrong, I tend to feel so bad about it I feel literally, physically ill.

Now, that’s not to say I don’t have my temptations. I do, and fighting the is SO hard. I have moments where I think, just once…I could just do it once more, and go to confession later…Thank you Lord, I’m usually able to be more level headed than that, and NOT do it!
 
Because in doing good you are making the choice (free will= your call !!! ) to be in the Lord’s presence.

Choosing sin, we choose to separate ourselves from Him.

He is pure, He can’t go there…
 
Being good is being united with God. This brings fulfillment to the soul. Being bad is being separated from God. It leaves the soul empty.
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
Everyone does this. It is all part of the journey toward God.

I’d like to address the “upperhand” part of your question.
Love:
Being Good -
Being Loving -
Being Cooperative -
Being Forgiving -
—These things Build up

Hate:
Being Bad -
Being Mean -
Being Selfish -
Being Resentful -
—These things Tear down

This is true in society as well as in our personal journey.
So which do you desire to be a part of - Building or destroying?

It’s that simple really -

Peace
James
 
the devil uses any opportunity to lead us away from God… resisting sin is one of the best defenses we have

trust me you don’t want to lose God 😦 I go through times of feeling like I have and it’s the worst imaginable thing. It’s better to suffer your whole life than lose God, seriously.
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
It’s sort of like one’s choice of living room, assuming you have a house with two of them. Which room do you choose:

A: has dog excrement on the floor and bugs in the couch and the air is polluted
B: is clean, sunny, and cozy

Living room B is simply more habitable and healthy and sane and happy. Yet, still sometimes we want to pick A, perhaps because we are too lazy to walk over to living room B. Or, more likely, a person is sitting in the middle of living room B and we don’t want to breathe the same air as them, so we go off in a huff to living room A. We satisfy one aspect of ourselves to the detriment of the rest of ourselves.

Sin is like that, doing something harmful to ourselves overall to satisfy a small aspect of ourselves. I’ve felt that way when someone is being mean to me. I get jealous and wonder why I can’t be mean back. It seems unfair. But being mean back will harm me, my integrity, my self-respect, my happiness, my serenity and closeness to God. Plus it could hurt the other person, and typically, I don’t want that. I just feel it is all unfair.
 
Very often it seems the people who can sin wihtout loosing any sleep over it are happier than us. But obviously, God gave you more of a conscious (which at times I wish he didn’t give me one).

No use saying in the long run you will be better off in this world because maybe you won’t. But rest assured, there is a big chance that if you ‘go bad’, you will suffer a lot more. For starters, the only people who will want to be your friends would be all the ‘bad guys’

CM
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
Especially when you compare yourself to other “good” Catholics who have great faith in their own personal salvation but also do bad things, and are blind to their badness. If they can have a more “fun” time on earth and still be saved, why should I put myself through this misery? (frequent struggle)

I constantly have to remind myself of the kingdom of heaven, that God has promised it to me. My gratitude often becomes strong enough to withstand the temptation for his sake alone. No, it may not be fair that I imagine that the “bar” could be set higher for me than for others. But it gives me a greater opportunity to contemplate the love God has for me, and I would much prefer that to remaining ignorant of it.

Life on earth doesn’t last forever. I am often strangely comforted by this reality.

Tim
 
I dunno. I’ve spent a fair bit of time being “bad.” I remember well the dark days of my life, spent running and running away from God. The nights spend in a blissfully drunken haze only to wake up the next morning using a curtain as a bedspread and a pile of textbooks as a pillow. Or the rush of power as I indulged in anger and vengeance, trying later to ignore the signs of my humanity slowly slipping away. I remember the sheer bliss of Bacchanalic abandonment… anything to avoid thinking about things I would rather not consider. At the time, I would have told you I was happy, but it took a lot of active work to convince myself of that. It was horrible. Soul crushingly, agonizingly horrible.

I find it hard to understand, sometimes, why people long for the darkness. It’s not fun. It’ll eat you alive - the king of this world, he wants you dead to grace and enslaved forever in the same chains that bind him down.

In ancient Greece, you know, they had a concept called eudaimonia. These days, it’s generally translated as “happiness,” but there’s more to it than the transitory sense of pleasure we mean today. It’s better understand as a life well lived. Pleasure is great - God gave it to us for a reason! But true happiness is always bound up in virtue and in love. It’s nothing without Him.
 
Does anyone here ever feel like that? ‘Why should I stay good? What’s the upperhand about it?’

I often find myself asking that question. Why should I stay good? Why not just go bad and do mean things? 😦

Anyone else think similarly?

An odd thread, I know. I’m just wondering here though…

Coolduude:cool:
In short, it’s all about metaphysics. The issue is not about upper-hand or lower-hand. It’s about the state of the universe.

So (to state it simply) say the universe has been created and is being controlled by a god who praises and rewards some actions and condemns and punishes others. In this universe, the rewarded actions merit many afterlife pleasantries, but the reprehensible ones merit everlasting torment. If one knew this was the state of the universe, it would be kinda senseless to rationally deliberate about this and still do wrong, yes? (Although, granted, one could do reprehensible actions without rational deliberation, but that is beside the point…)

In my opinion, in the atheistic universe, anything goes. Even if we have certain moral sentiments, I don’t think there is any objective morality in such a universe. Moral obligations, the “oughts” of morality, don’t have the same meaning. Sometimes I make it a point to be mean (in a joking way) around certain people because they can’t condemn my actions.😛

I hope this makes sense.
-KrazyKaiju
 
I have this problem almost every day with my girlfriend, we quit acting impurely a month or 2 ago. Before it was all about pleasure and sometimes I wonder why I can’t just have that back since it didn’t seem to hurt anyone. But we went through some really rough times and I can’t help but think because we treated each other as objects instead of humans.

But I know by doing this I’ll be doing something for God, who is ‘all good and deserving of all my love.’ But if that doesn’t inspire me, I remember God will reward me forever with greater pleasure than I can find on Earth. For every sinful pleasure you give up on Earth, God will reward a thousandfold.
Trying to get there now with my GF, we’re even living together right now. I’ve brought up the issue several times but each time I get met with her saddness of not wanting to move out. The interesting part is she intellectually understands the teachings of the CC (she’s converting this Easter), and she accepts them, and we talk about these moral issues frequently… But there’s a certain disconnect, when it comes to applying them in our own lives.

Some times I think it must be some of that Evangelical Saved by Faith alone teaching in there asserting it’s self. I’m neverous now because obviously the Easter vigial will entail her first communion, and I will be there as we (and I certainly should be recieving at that mass) but we’re not ready, and I just don’t know when/if we will before then.

I’ve talked about this with her as well.

Of course this is also equally my fault. I let her move in, despite my misgivings about it, and I certainly am not kicking her out (honestly I have been praying for her to want to move out so we can put Christ first) and I do still do impure deeds with her. So it’s not like I’m Mr. Innocent here.

Anyway I’m curious how your conversations went with your significant other? Did you have similar struggles?
 
Trying to get there now with my GF, we’re even living together right now. I’ve brought up the issue several times but each time I get met with her saddness of not wanting to move out. The interesting part is she intellectually understands the teachings of the CC (she’s converting this Easter), and she accepts them, and we talk about these moral issues frequently… But there’s a certain disconnect, when it comes to applying them in our own lives.

Some times I think it must be some of that Evangelical Saved by Faith alone teaching in there asserting it’s self. I’m neverous now because obviously the Easter vigial will entail her first communion, and I will be there as we (and I certainly should be recieving at that mass) but we’re not ready, and I just don’t know when/if we will before then.

I’ve talked about this with her as well.

Of course this is also equally my fault. I let her move in, despite my misgivings about it, and I certainly am not kicking her out (honestly I have been praying for her to want to move out so we can put Christ first) and I do still do impure deeds with her. So it’s not like I’m Mr. Innocent here.

Anyway I’m curious how your conversations went with your significant other? Did you have similar struggles?
Long time no response.

Basically she was Catholic but had sexual relations with several men, I had never had any with women though… she kind of introduced me to it all. Then 3 months into our relationship she took a marriage prep class at our Catholic college and we stopped having intercourse but still did the other stuff… I still thought it might be wrong but didn’t say anything, after all I didnt’ really believe in God and didn’t want to argue with her to stop the sexual stuff, so I just let it be.

Then in August a year and a half later I decided to research Catholicism and see what it was about, I grew really interested, started praying Rosary everyday, found this site and found out that even the other stuff was a mortal sin and why. I started believing in God. So I brought it up, showed her this site, and we eventually agreed to stop. It’s been a long hard road and we slip up every once in a while but we’re getting better.
 
I’m neverous now because obviously the Easter vigial will entail her first communion, and I will be there as we (and I certainly should be recieving at that mass) but we’re not ready, and I just don’t know when/if we will before then.

I’ve talked about this with her as well.

Of course this is also equally my fault. I let her move in, despite my misgivings about it, and I certainly am not kicking her out (honestly I have been praying for her to want to move out so we can put Christ first) and I do still do impure deeds with her. So it’s not like I’m Mr. Innocent here.
Crazzeto, if she decides she wants to move out, would you really be putting Christ first? Right now it sounds like you’re putting your desire to avoid a painful conflict with your loved one above doing God’s will. If the difficult situation disappears without your having to take a stand for God, how does this mean that you are putting Him before her? You might not be committing the outward sin anymore, but the wrongful attitudes (idolatry is putting someone or something above God) would remain because you still would never have chosen God above her. She would have chosen God before you, and her soul would be right with God, but you would not yet have put God before her and your interior priorities would still be just as much in need of change.

You’re praying for a solution that is not really a solution at all, because if God answered your prayer as you’re asking Him to, you would still have never chosen God above your girlfriend. Your heart would still be with your girlfriend, or avoiding a conflict with her, more than it is with God, and transformation would still be necessary. Only it would be less easy to measure then than it is now, while you can deliberately choose God first through a painful act of obedience.

Outward sins aren’t the only mortal ones. There are interior mortal sins as well.

There would be no reason to believe, if God answered your prayer and the sexual part of the problem dissolved, that you now suddenly care more about God than you do about your girlfriend. She would still mean more to you than God – only your loyalties wouldn’t be being directly tested any more as they are right now.

I personally suspect that God may be being merciful to you by not answering your prayer, because He is prolonging your opportunity to choose Him above your loved one in a clear way. If He answers your prayer and speaks to your girlfriend, and she leaves of her own will and not because you have insisted, then you won’t have benefitted except insofar as you are relieved from the sexual temptation. The temptation would be removed, which would be good, but the heart attitude of choosing the loved one above your Divine Lover would still be wrongfully present. God would be no more first in your life than He is now, because your heart would still be placing your girlfriend ahead of Him.

It is a painful trial though; I certainly recognize that.

God has put the responsibility in your hands to save your soul and help your friend’s.

I’ll just share a note of encouragement before ending this post.

I was the first of my family to convert to Catholicism and my family were somewhat Anti-Catholic. I lost friends and I suffered badly damaged relations with family members who once looked up to me, but came to see me as fallen in my relationship with God.

However, the consequence was that I received God’s light and now so are they. One of them has decided to convert and another is almost there. The unity I share with my converting family members is deeper, more profound, more loving and more beautiful than we have previously known. This was a result of my choosing pain and God above the comfort and pleasures of the status quo. The joys I am experiencing now, spiritually, are far greater than the painful trials were harsh. Even if I hadn’t experienced the restoration of family ties, the unity for me personally with God was decidedly worth it.

This choice is indeed very painful. I’m only sharing this so that you know how God uses that pain, that breaking of unity between loved ones, in order to deepen it and perfect both us and those we love. It is most loving to your girlfriend as well as to yourself and God to act in this way.

God blesses us through these trials, though they are horrible while we are going through them, if we choose Him above ourselves.

Here are Jesus’ words on the matter.

Mark 10:29-31

29
Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the sake of the gospel
30
who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come.
31
But many that are first will be last, and (the) last will be first.”

And the reverse:

Matthew 10

32
14 Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father.
33
But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.
34
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
35
For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36
and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’
37
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38
and whoever does not take up his cross 15 and follow after me is not worthy of me.
39
16 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
 
Trying to get there now with my GF, we’re even living together right now. I’ve brought up the issue several times but each time I get met with her saddness of not wanting to move out. The interesting part is she intellectually understands the teachings of the CC (she’s converting this Easter), and she accepts them, and we talk about these moral issues frequently… But there’s a certain disconnect, when it comes to applying them in our own lives.

Some times I think it must be some of that Evangelical Saved by Faith alone teaching in there asserting it’s self. I’m neverous now because obviously the Easter vigial will entail her first communion, and I will be there as we (and I certainly should be recieving at that mass) but we’re not ready, and I just don’t know when/if we will before then.

I’ve talked about this with her as well.

Of course this is also equally my fault. I let her move in, despite my misgivings about it, and I certainly am not kicking her out (honestly I have been praying for her to want to move out so we can put Christ first) and I do still do impure deeds with her. So it’s not like I’m Mr. Innocent here.

Anyway I’m curious how your conversations went with your significant other? Did you have similar struggles?
Something is terribly wrong. You mentioned she is converting this Easter and is still deliberately living in sin. The two of you need to pray about this and make the right decision. God’s grace makes all things possible, but He needs your cooperation. Her conversion doesn’t sound serious at this point. You can be a man and point that out to her.

Prayers for you both to make the right decision…
 
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