Why the abuse?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kingJesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kingJesus

Guest
Here we go again, seems that the Church is getting thumped wherever it turns.
I am hoping that there will be an uproar within the church to route out all evil.
Name them and shame them I say. Get the homos out the pedophiles and all that are heretics that are shaming our Church.
Why the abuse on little children i would never know , from clergy , shame on them shame shame shame!
Evil will not be tolerated, Jesus will prevail!
 
I agree that all evil should be rooted out of the church wherever it’s found and that any clergy found guilty of any crime sexual or otherwise should be punished or disciplined for their actions / inactions as the case may be.

However the passage “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” comes to mind. My view is that while we must ensure that we carry out justice we must also be merciful to all including pedophile priests since we have all sinned and fallen short. Let expose evil wherever we find it but treat the offenders and victims both with the justice and mercy and compassion of Jesus our Lord also. If not then we will not befit to be called christian. How many times should we forgive? Not seven times but seventy times seven times 🙂
 
kinja said:
I agree that all evil should be rooted out of the church wherever it’s found and that any clergy found guilty of any crime sexual or otherwise should be punished or disciplined for their actions / inactions as the case may be.

However the passage “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” comes to mind. My view is that while we must ensure that we carry out justice we must also be merciful to all including pedophile priests since we have all sinned and fallen short. Let expose evil wherever we find it but treat the offenders and victims both with the justice and mercy and compassion of Jesus our Lord also. If not then we will not befit to be called christian. How many times should we forgive? Not seven times but seventy times seven times 🙂
Click to expand...
True, But how can you forgive a pedophile or let alone trust him?
Root them out and start afresh!
Make it compulsory for priests to marry ,The Catholic Maronites of Lebanon have that option, and it does work,
 
kingJesus said:
Make it compulsory for priests to marry
Click to expand...
Oh, good grief, here we go AGAIN with someone who thinks that pedophiles would not prey on young boys if they could have wives instead.

Isn’t this getting a bit old? How many times can we refute this silliness?
 
kingJesus said:
True, But how can you forgive a pedophile or let alone trust him?
Root them out and start afresh!
Make it compulsory for priests to marry ,The Catholic Maronites of Lebanon have that option, and it does work,
Click to expand...
considering that most abuse of children is domestic i don’t see how this would help things. Also there is the simple fact that priest have devoted their lives to God, to have them marry and have the responsibility’s of Fatherhood would be more of a hindrance to their vocation than a benefit.

Jesus told us to leave everything, his apostles left their family’s and fallowed him, so have the priest Chosen to do.

This little persecution will pass soon enough, just the media trying to get more ratings and money. They are about as reliable as politicians these days:p
 
HickmanJosh said:
considering that most abuse of children is domestic i don’t see how this would help things. Also there is the simple fact that priest have devoted their lives to God, to have them marry and have the responsibility’s of Fatherhood would be more of a hindrance to their vocation than a benefit.

Jesus told us to leave everything, his apostles left their family’s and fallowed him, so have the priest Chosen to do.

This little persecution will pass soon enough, just the media trying to get more ratings and money. They are about as reliable as politicians these days:p
Click to expand...
True,
The Church will come back stronger, This will be the turning point!
 
DavidFilmer said:
Oh, good grief, here we go AGAIN with someone who thinks that pedophiles would not prey on young boys if they could have wives instead.

Isn’t this getting a bit old? How many times can we refute this silliness?
Click to expand...
My Answer: I agree! Statistics bear out the fact that pedophiles are more prevalent among married men so why don’t we outlaw marriage?
 
Another thing that we have to keep in mind. A person memory of things chang over the years. I Still have problems with the person that says so had so did such and such to me 30 years ago and this is the first any one is hearing of it.

In America a person is presumed innocent till it is proven that they are guilty. I know that the way i remember events that happened to me 30 - 35 years ago I’m 44 may not have happend just the way I remember it.

I am not deffending thos that committed these horrible crimes. I am saying not all that have been accused are guiltly. We need to pray for our Preist and fight for both them and our children.
 
Firstly, ordained men may not marry. The Eastern churches ordain married men. A seemingly minor detail but important.

Your talk of “rooting out homos and pedophiles” seems to come from an attitude of bigotry. God’s love extends to all sinners. The Church is not (only) a museum of saints, it is a hospital for sinners. All are welcome to partake, if only in the sacrament of Reconciliation, to heal their broken spirits and experience not just the unbounded love of God, but the love of other human beings as well.

To paraphrase Archbishop Michael Sheehan, never put your faith in human beings, because they will inevitably let you down. Rather, put your faith in Jesus Christ and the sacraments of the Church, because they never fail or disappoint.
 
Elizium23 said:
Your talk of “rooting out homos and pedophiles” seems to come from an attitude of bigotry. God’s love extends to all sinners. The Church is not (only) a museum of saints, it is a hospital for sinners. All are welcome to partake, if only in the sacrament of Reconciliation, to heal their broken spirits and experience not just the unbounded love of God, but the love of other human beings as well.
Click to expand...
You left out “heretics” - “Get the homos out the pedophiles and all that are heretics that are shaming our Church.”

The poster was, I am sure, referring to those in ministry, not making all sinners leave the Church. There is no reason to have known, active pedophiles & homosexuals serve as bishops, priests, & deacons. They should be rooted out. They have no concern for the souls they are in charge of. Ditto for the straight priests who are sexually active.

The bishop previous to the one we have now was an active homosexual. He tried to choke a male prostitute during the sex act, who went to the police. He didn’t know his customer was the bishop, but the the cops did, & they helped cover up the crime.

He brought shame on the Church by his actions. And his own homosexuality may be the cause of so much clergy pedophilia here. We are paying - both financially & spiritually - for his sins.
 
kinja said:
I agree that all evil should be rooted out of the church wherever it’s found and that any clergy found guilty of any crime sexual or otherwise should be punished or disciplined for their actions / inactions as the case may be.

However the passage “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” comes to mind. My view is that while we must ensure that we carry out justice we must also be merciful to all including pedophile priests since we have all sinned and fallen short. Let expose evil wherever we find it but treat the offenders and victims both with the justice and mercy and compassion of Jesus our Lord also. If not then we will not befit to be called christian. How many times should we forgive? Not seven times but seventy times seven times 🙂
Click to expand...
i find it odd how so much attention is focused on the priests… no one is perfect, the Protestants also have abuse trouble, everyone sins, forgive them and love them, the media just likes to prey on Catholics, pray for the priests…

what about the children? what about the countless boys and also girls abused, taken advantage of, assaulted, and raped by men supposed to be represtatives of Christ on earth? imagine the psychological and spiritual damage of being abused by a man you are supposed to view as Godly and respect (and whom you may love as a priest) and being told by him to keep the matter between the two of you, or (he could be defrocked, God would be angry, it’s our little secret…).

how disgusting. how wretched, in excusable, and perverse. we’re not talking about visiting prostitutes or arranging meetings with married women. we’re not just talking about a failture to keep one’s vows. we’re talking about kids who love and trust the Catholic Church, being coerced in to sexual contact (sometimes over years) with a person who has power and authroity over them and others in a unique way.

we’re talking about these men not being turned in to the authorities and defrocked, but moved around, shuffled to other churches, other orphanages, other schools, with no warnings to any lay people, where abuse could possibly further occur. we’re talking about agreements on many, many levels of the Catholic Church to keep these men “safe”, and not raise Cain.

so it’s all about the men, not the kids. not the kids’ parents or loved ones. the Lord Jesus Christ says woe to anyone who causes a little child who believes in Him to stumble in faith. it would be better for that man to have a millstone hung around his neck and be thrown into the ocean. how much more so men who willfully and selfishly take advantage of children, and those who allow these men to stay hidden within the Church.
 
DavidFilmer said:
Oh, good grief, here we go AGAIN with someone who thinks that pedophiles would not prey on young boys if they could have wives instead.

Isn’t this getting a bit old? How many times can we refute this silliness?
Click to expand...
The pedophile that has afflicted our family is a thrice married man and is not Catholic. He does practice another faith however but I have decided not to mention which one even though that Church protected him from being turned over to the police.

Annie
 
I’ve added a link to a very thoughtful article regarding the current media coverage on the scandal, especially as it relates to our Pope. It was written by a Kenyan lawyer.

We need to pray for all our religious and for our church and for the victims of this horrible crime that is much too prevalent in today’s society. God Bless families everywhere.

%between%
 
It is really disturbing…

The Magestrium teaches chastity, is against birth control, divorce etc. The Church places extraordinary demands on its believers, compared to secular society and some other religions and Christian denominations. It then places its own mores above that of regular society in protecting or playing “pilate” by shifting or not reporting suspected priests around. The “methods” of the Magestrium allow the most debase people to thrive- they pay them, or rather tithes pay them.

It is the essence of hypocrisy.

Things that do not help are saying things like:

Everyone is a sinner so…
Statistically, we are the same as _______
Pray for our anointed priests, when they should be praying for us.
The world is out to get us…for molesting children

Nor does it help to say that the Magestrium is ok, they just need to adjust their views on celibacy etc.

What needs to happen, imo, is a massive defrocking by Rome. Massive. It is the only way to maintain integrity. When lesser scandals are exposed in an organization in society, I believe the cliche is, “heads are going to roll”.

It needs to happen, and it needs to happen fast.
 
skinny_pumpkin said:
Nor does it help to say that the Magestrium is ok, they just need to adjust their views on celibacy etc.
Click to expand...
Celibacy is a part of fallowing Jesus. The apostles gave up everything to fallow Jesus, even their family’s, so the bishops and priests have given up there family’s to fallow Christ in a more intimate way than any other vocation or occupation could provide.

Celibacy and abstinence are not going to change, it is a simple matter of self control and respect. It is a key and unchanging catholic dogma. Fornication is not good for anybody, not for the children that could result, or the people who give into to lust.

see post #5
 
but Josh, again, we’re not just talking about a failure to keep vows of chastity. we’re talking about the sexual abuse of children.

it’s not just about illicit sex or fornication. it’s about the abuse and mistreatment of innocent children placed under the care of ordained adults who are supposed to be looking out for them.

a priest can commit sexual sin a whole host of ways. but going to a protitude or arranging a meeting with a married woman is a heck of a lot different from abusing children. there are issues of consent, trust, abuse, and the downright evil of using children in this way.
 
grace_singh said:
but Josh, again, we’re not just talking about a failure to keep vows of chastity. we’re talking about the sexual abuse of children.

it’s not just about illicit sex or fornication. it’s about the abuse and mistreatment of innocent children placed under the care of ordained adults who are supposed to be looking out for them.

a priest can commit sexual sin a whole host of ways. but going to a protitude or arranging a meeting with a married woman is a heck of a lot different from abusing children. there are issues of consent, trust, abuse, and the downright evil of using children in this way.
Click to expand...
I do not know what causes people to do such things but it is certainly not anything good. We are all human and any group made up of humans is bound to have a few weak links and occasionally one or two is bound to snap, its nothing new but not acceptable either.
 
The Magesterium has nothing to do with moving priests around.That is not their function.So the scandals have nothing to do with the Magisterium.
I lived celibate life a long time before I married-was I prone to child abuse when celibate?Did it disappear when married? The problem is far flung one.I remember an article written in “christianity Today” about 20 yrs ago,that said that these kinds of problems were endemic in society and since churches are part of society this would be a serious problem for all churches.And it is
.I know of no one personally, who has been abused by a minister or priest.But I know of a dozen who have been abused by their father/brother/relative /friends.It is so frequent but almost completely ignored when it happens in a family-like somehow it is a “family” problem and not society’s. A friend of mine once said when the scandals broke that children who suffered abuse , no matter where, would finally stopped being ignored.She was very disappointed to discover they still are being ignored by society because no one wants to believe that the worst , most consistent abuse, by someone you probably know, happens all around you in families.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top